Ranger Archive

NRaas said:

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"but not bows and arrows, save those for the middle ages"

www3.chass.ncsu.edu/PA540/acdeyoun/modern.html

- Check out that image. Thatlooks likea veryfuturistic looking bow to me.

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NRaas, you ROCK!

Ki_Gu_Lon said:

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I'm not too big on the bow idea, but why on earth would it only work on creatures?

An arrow is an arrow. It will skewer a person just as well as it will a womprat.

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I suggested that, mainly to keep down the cries of the nerfherders. I agree with you that an arrow is an arrow. But along those lines, a Tranq dart is a Tranq dart and should work on people too. As a matter of fact, If I have enough Tranq in my dart to slow down a Sharneff Bull for 30 seconds, that should KILL anything other than maybe a wookie, who would take a Looooooong nap.

NRaas said:

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- Consider all the various types of arrows that have been suggested (Explosive, Freezing, Shocking, Flaming, etc).

- The idea that one weapon would be able to do any damage type available (though only one type at a time) is quite unbalancing.

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I was thinking about it... The bow could be loaded with arrows the exact same way fishing poles are baited. Just a point that it would be hard to switch between arrows.

Chekula said:

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I know Darth Maul had some nice binocs and I believe there were some used on Hoth that were shown?

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Luke also used some on Tatooine, looking for R2 after he ran (rolled) off to find Obi Wan.

I would just like to see a gun that you had to load traps into,that when used would add a damage component to whatever trap you had loaded the gun into.

A few observations and opinions:

Bow - neat idea, but tough to go prone with one... plus, as stated before, seems more fantasy than SciFi

Crossbow - could go prone, but exists already as Bowcaster

Ranger Rifle - as a Rifleman/Ranger I like it, but there are many who are not riflemen

Trap launcher - seems logical, but not really all that exciting to me (emphasize ME)

The statement that Ranger is a "support" or "supplement" profession is downright wrong in my book. A Ranger is solitary, elusive and self sufficient. This is not to say he can or should be able to solo anything the universe serves up as a foe, but that he can hunt and survive in the wilderness better than any other single class. Now, it is correct that a Ranger isn't a PVP wonder, but because of our skills in the wild we should be able to evade and mask our trail from another hostile players or NPCs... but only in the wild.

Hereis an idea I've had. I've not put a huge amount of though into it... more brainstorming than anything. See what ya'll think.

- "Real" traps: a true survivalist lives by trapping animals and collecting them later. Perhaps this could be set up like harvesters... set a trap for a type or size of critter, leave it, come check it later. Could have a transmitter to tell you that you have a catch with a timer for non-response. The higher yourskill level, thebigger/nastier baddies you could potentially ensnare.

This seems obvious to me, so has probably been suggested before, so ignore it if that's the case.

Fluff

Ranger/Rifleman

Chilastra

"The statement that Ranger is a "support" or "supplement" profession is downright wrong"

The concept of support profession, in my mind, means the skill set will not stand on its own without another skill set to prop it up.

Namely, ifa Ranger has no combat skill set himself, they must rely on team members to perform the damage so the Ranger can harvest the goods.

The self-sufficient Ranger requires both the Ranger skill set and a combat skill set in order to do anything.

By that definition, the Ranger profession is a support skill set.

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The only completely self-sufficient profession is the Tera Kasi

• They don't require a weapon (doing sufficient damage unarmed)


• They don't require armor (it's actually cost-ineffective to use armor in melee combat)


• They don't require wound, bleed, poison, or disease healing (meditation handles that)

Every other elemental professionrequires either a weapon created by a smith, or materials provided by Scouts or Artisans (ala Surveying).

Of course, a player can mix multiple professions together to produce self-sufficient characters, but the Ranger skill set can not stand on its own accord.

"I guess we could spam the heck out of traps and whittle them down with any ole cdef pistol we pick up."

Yes... I guess you could do that.

But, as you said... Would anyone actually consider that a viable option?

It does limit you to a rather limited subset of the creatures in the game.

NRaas said:

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Namely, ifa Ranger has no combat skill set himself, they must rely on team members to perform the damage so the Ranger can harvest the goods.

The self-sufficient Ranger requires both the Ranger skill set and a combat skill set in order to do anything.

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Well, anyone can use any weapon, you'll just only do 10-15 points of damage with it. I guess we could spam the heck out of traps and whittle them down with any ole cdef pistol we pick up. It's insane, but it would work. Then we just heal up in one of our camps, once agro's really are detered from entering. Of course, I wouldn't try taking anything harder than a durni that way....

Ask this one simple question: what combo of classes stack with each other currently to be able to kill the big game.The templateyou usuallycome up with BH/Pistoleer/CH. You might have a Commando in the mix in there as well.Whatever you come up with Ranger isn't in there nor is RIfleman. Funny that.

Like the BH and Smuggler with Pistols,Rangers should have a move or ability that stacks with Rifleman. BH get Eyeshot. I perhaps something like alowing use of legshots and bodyshots with Rifle, maybe evenany ranged weapon. Perhaps a critical hit only used by a rifle at some level in the ranger tree or master that gives a good likelyhood of dropping big game (not PvP for balance?), maybe on Health, doing great damage AND bleed.

I'm not sure exactly *what* this would be, but BH/Pistoleer is the hot template right now due to the complimentry bonuses. Rifleman have no class to go to that works like this (or carbineers for that matter, they need something too).

I think it would also make sense to have a CH/Ranger bonus but I don't know what that would be ether.

NRaas said:

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But, as you said... Would anyone actually consider that a viable option?

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Lordy, I hope not! What a waste of resources that would be! But I do wonder how many traps you would have to throw that way? Crazy, Crazy, Crazy...

I really got a laugh out of this thread.

Ranger is not a combat profession? Exsqueeze me? Rangers get two skill lines that can only be developed by killing mobs, and a third that grants a combat ability (rescue) and produces and deploys weapons (traps). The fourth line deals with recovering from combat (camps). The entire profession is 100% devoted to PvE hunting. What part of this says "non-combat profession"?

NRaas' definition is invalid. No profession in the game is capable of functioning on its own, not even a Teras Kasi. The game was designed to prioritize dependency. The idea that combat professions would bring Rangers without combat ability along just to harvest is ludicrous on its face, doubly so when one considers that two of the strongest combat professions in the game (Creature Hander and Bounty Hunter) require Hunting IV!

The problem is not that Ranger is not a combat profession. The problem is that Ranger is a BAD combat profession. The profession is dedicated to hunting and gives practically no benefit to that activity. We get a tiny Creature To-Hit bonus that may not even be functional, and traps that do nothing whatsoever. We have camps that don't repel creatures and stealth abilities that don't work due to their own inadequacies and issues in the combat system regarding concealment. This is a result of the poor design that went into the class in the first place, basically treating it as Scout 2.0. The profession should have been designed along the same lines as Combat Medic, Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, etc., combining combat and other abilities towards a specialized role. Master Rangers are currently spending 63 points (above pre-reqs) for a package of abilities that are practically useless for fulfilling their stated function, and would be even if they worked as advertised.

Bows? Um, no. First off, the EverQuest servers are ---> that way. (Where you will find me playing a 64 Ranger with EndQ/AM3.) Bows would be completely out of genre, high-tech toys notwithstanding. Secondly, a bow would require the production of a new 3D model and motion capping animations to go with it. Not gonna happen just so one profession can have a new toy. The best you could hope for is something with the Bowcaster graphic. I don't know if non-Wookies can even equip a Bowcaster (or why anyone including a Wookie would want to). If Rangers were to get a signature weapon I could take or leave the Bowcaster graphic, but I'd much rather leave it.

What can be done:

Make traps work. Traps (both Scout and Ranger) should be effective against all targets, not just creatures. Give players a bonus to save against them if necessary for PvP, but they should be usable on players. I quite assure you that jungle fighters through the centuries have found their techniques just as effective on humans as on animals. Droids are about the only thing I could see traps not working on. (Someone should get EMP grenades for them, but I don't think it should be us.) Traps should absolutely be usable on creature pets. Mobs should not ignore state effects, as they currently seem to. Traps should be able to inflict killing damage. The existing Ranger traps should inflict damage and should be nearly as effective as Commando grenades. Traps skill should actually make traps more likely to land as it says it does, but currently does not.

Allow experimentation on traps for, as applicable: state effect power (likeliness to land), state effect duration, damage, quantity. (While I'm at it, put tabs on the crafting tools to only show schematics granted by a particular profession. I'm tired of having to scroll through dice to get to phecnacine darts.) It wouldn't bother me if Engineering was required to make the most of this.

Rename the Advanced Trapping line Brush Fighting. This neatly fixes the incongruity of the Rescue command residing in this line. Make the line title Guerilla or Jungle Fighter -- Trap Master sounds like a bad 80s rap star.

Put a cert in Novice Ranger for a T21-class rifle. (You can cert for a T21 by topping off one skill line; this will require an entire profession.) Put some skills and advanced moves for it into the Tracking and Brush Fighting lines -- not as much as a pure Rifleman would get, but enough that Rangers won't have to add an elite weapon profession just to do their jobs. Make sure that the skills for this rifle don't stack with regular Rifle adds to avoid the BH/Smuggler + Pistoleer issues. Ranger is already an elite combat profession; it just needs the teeth such a profession should have. This will torque off Rangers who don't use rifles, but simply put, one does not hunt game the size of rhinos or elephants with a handgun, or more laughably, melee weapons or bare hands.

What should be done, but probably can't be at this point, is to require Rifle IV as a pre-req for Novice Ranger.

Oh, and for reference, I'm a 4-4-4-3 Ranger (working on traps, got a long way to go), 3-1-0-1 Rifleman and 1-1-1-0 Creature Handler (because the game is currently divided into people with strong pets and useless people).

DFH I agree with the rifle 4 requirement. It should be implemented but dont think it is possible.

Doctor and Ranger are the only elite professions that require mastering an basic profession with no skills from another class. I would like to seeelite professions that require mastering a novice class the addition of at least one line of another. I dont know if it would work to have novice doctor require entertainment healing but Novice ranger would benefit from rifles.

I know this is probably impossible but with post launch beta testing these things happen.