Ranger Archive

---

Kiryoku wrote:

why arewe concerned with keeping up with stackers/dabblers on the offensive?... what damage bonus does a swordsman get by dabbling in TK, that a ranger would not get simply by having one?... nothing in any pure combat profession benefits any other combat profession's offensive capabilities (excepting a few lines, like BH pistol and carbine)... as a master ranger, you can master any fighting style/line (except commando) as anyone else - does the TK/rifleman's T21 do more damage than the ranger/rifleman's?...

the real benefit to stacking/dabbling is in the defensive, if we want to compete with them then we need defensive bonuses - something we've talked about in depth, and fred has brought up in this thread...

the only real advantage dabbling in other combat professions gives you, that we don't have access to ourselves, is in damage type... if the combat bonuses we get allow us to bypass resistances or alter damage type, then this would be worthwhile... however, i see this as easier to implement in the form of a weapon...

as far as melee/ranged rangers arguing over the actual "weapon"... what the hell?... all the bonuses to the ranger weapon will have to come in the ranger tree... being a rifleman won't help you with your "bow" skills, nor will being a fencer help you with your "rambo knife"... are melee rangers so opposed to using a ranged weapon that they won't actually use their bow, even if it gives them an advantage over other meleers?... whatever the weapon is, it would most likely be a midranged weapon to benefit both types of rangers... why do people get so up in arms about this?...

melee: "eeww... this weapon 'launches' things... i'm not using it... /pout"

ranged: "aww... you mean i can't arc a shot from 64m?.../weep"

do people really do this?... doesn't anybody want a weapon to fill in their weakspot, rather than supplement their already strong points?...

melee: "yay, now i can hit things that are farther away than 25m..."

ranged: "yippee, i can finally hit that kimo that is standing on my face..."

sorry to get off on the weapon, i'm all for not having one... we just need the offensive bonuses to regard resistances and damage type, rather than just pure damage... where did this idea that stackers can out "damage" us come from?...

---

Actually, this quite makes sense.But... Carbineers and pistoleers will get zero advantage from such a mid-range weapon. Oops

Stop thinking we have to get rid of anything or only get one option over the other. We're Rangers. We shouldn't be thinking inside the box because we wander way, way outside it.

- We can merge camps with traps. We lose nothing, the line gets a boost, and it opens itself up for a combat/defense line.
- We can get combat bonuses that work for any weapon choice and a Ranger weapon for a unique feel.

Then everyone gets what they want and no one loses anything!

I still feel combat bonuses should still be spread out and not restricted to a single line, although the profession is getting to the point that "dabbling" is not a big issue. Anyone that is a master Scout is likely deserving of being a Ranger now as well, regardless of the points spent.

---

Fred_Skinner wrote:

Well, if we are swapping out the "bow" or whatever it will be, for a combat mod, To Hit is not enough, imho. Unless they really, really mess with riflemen hard in the CB, I would not notice. DPS, by speed or by damage would be the better route (damage prefered, although both would be understood).

I would, however, feel that being in the wilderness is a mark of hardiness and stamina more then combat effectiveness. We should be immune to some dots or they be less effective (poison, desease). We should be harder to get status on and recover faster (less expense on specials, high regen). Thease are the kinds of things a (wo)man living in the wilds aquires. I can see knowing things about critters that would drop them in one shot, but overall to the rest of the population we should be tougher then most.

Just a silly thought....

---

---

Owen-Lars wrote:

Yeah camps cannot go at all, they are our defining point and probly always will be. Whether we get ranger only clothing items or ranger only weapons there will always be noobs to show of to with HTFB's.

---

Lets here some of that camp potential. I'm all ears for making them cool and useful, but I'm just brain farting on it right now.

---

Head up to the sticky post at the top: The Outdoorsman

Scroll down abit and you will soon come across the modular camp section. By your lack of desire for camps i can only assume you havnt already read this proposal so take a look, im pretty sure it will sway your opinion.

---

Oh Im very familiar with the Outdoorsman proposal, and I know of the modular camps. That's actually the one part of it I don't like. There is too much crafting and stuff like that there for me. I'm a ranger, not a crafter. I'm OK if it goes in and all, but I don't expect everyone to be 100% for 100% of the Outdoorsman. You can't with a community this large. I was hopping people had different ideas for making camps useful. Even little things like way increase the healing mod on it, maybe beyond a med center?

To round off here, I would like to see creature combat related modifiers or a ranger weapon. How ever it gets implemented. I know the outdoorsman has many of these types of things.

Message Edited by Squidwalker on 07-09-2004 06:22 PM

---

Owen-Lars wrote:

I dont have a problem with hitting my targets, the only problem is dps. If a normal combat profession or stacker can outdamage you, you are no longer the master of the wilderness.

---

I agree here. Right now I'm not even near master pistoleer but I rarely miss a target even at 50m. What I have a problem with is some dude with a Master Chef title taking out Rancors solo with 3 hits and harvesting only 15 units less than I would at master ranger and not even being able to solo a rancor. What we need are traps that enhance hunting like sleeping gass or an area root trap, Better creature defenses like resistance to poisons or the ability to forrage natural cures to them, creature damage mitigation so if a creature does get close enough to attack I can more easily block/dodge/or counter it.

I don't want to have to play a combat profession I don't like just for the DPS to be the best hunter. I want to be the best hunter because I am a MASTER RANGER.

---

Owen-Lars wrote:

Although creature to hit would be nice and should be made to work on your pets too. Its something i would gladly refuse to get something else.

Damage is where its at people, it will still be after the cb, no matter how weak they make us the way you survive is not being able to last hours taking hits from a creature, its killing the thing before it kills you. I am able to take massive creatures solo simply because i can kill it fast than it can kill me, nothing else, i can do enough damage to it before it starts attack me that it dont matter how hard it hits me, he's going down before he can work on me.

I think our main priority if we get this idea is to push for dps increases. We NEED to be doing more damage than any other possible template to creatures, thats our job.

Traps WILL start to come back into play once the cb hits, more specifically scout traps (phaescene) but just being able to hold the creatures off isnt a big enough motivation and advantage when a stacker can kill the beast faster than you can. Whats the point of being this master hunter when another guy can kill better than you, maybe at higher risk but thats not the point, harvest collection and loot collection dont give a **edit** about you ability to hold off attack only how fast you can take it down.

so thats it: DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE

Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 07-08-2004 05:20 PM

---

Again, you've hit the nail on the head. We need to compete with the stackers otherwise what's the point. I could be landing hits all day on a rancor for 250 pts each hit, but what good does that do me when a TKA/Fencer can walk up to it and take it down with three hits 1900 pts each.

However, I am not as big a fan of the "ranger weapon" whatever it may be as I am a special attack that does more dammage no matter what weapon you are using. The attack would be like knowing the creature so well that you know precicely where to aim to hit it's weak spot. Like a bleed shot that does a great ammount of dammage on it's initial hit but it hits a random HAM bar with every shot (i'd say a speciffic ham bar depending on the creature but that would probably be harder to code). So say I'm using a pistol which usually hits for about 250 pts and can hit for 1000 pts using my best special, If I use my ranger special attack instead, I can do 1500-1900 pts of dammage on a random ham and cause a bleed on that ham bar I hit of maybe 1/3 the damage of the first attack. I could spam the ranger special again, but it may not hit the same bar and if it hits a different bar, the bleeding moves to the other bar. I might not want to change the bleed if I had already hit the health bar so I'll continue to use my pistoleer specials to finish it off. Of course it doesnt' have to work like that, the main idea is a ranger special that deals a great ammount of dammage to a creature no matter what weapon you are using.

This should be just as easy to code as any kind of modifyer. Placing it could work a few ways, give it to novice ranger and have it's modifier be the creature knowledge skill mod. the higher your creature knowledge, the more dammage it does. Or, you can place it at tracking I or II, where your creature knowledge would affect the attacks accuracy (creature knowledge 60 meaning you hit 60% of the time, creature knowledge 100 meaning you hit the soft spot every time). Or you could just place it at master and make it an uber attack. Call it "Weakness Shot" or "Soft Spot Hit" or whatever. and of course it would only work on creatures.

Message Edited by Eklectrick on 07-10-2004 01:20 PM

Message Edited by Eklectrick on 07-10-2004 01:21 PM

Message Edited by Eklectrick on 07-10-2004 01:23 PM

---

Eklectrick wrote:

---

Owen-Lars wrote:

I dont have a problem with hitting my targets, the only problem is dps. If a normal combat profession or stacker can outdamage you, you are no longer the master of the wilderness.

---

I agree here. Right now I'm not even near master pistoleer but I rarely miss a target even at 50m. What I have a problem with is some dude with a Master Chef title taking out Rancors solo with 3 hits and harvesting only 15 units less than I would at master ranger and not even being able to solo a rancor. What we need are traps that enhance hunting like sleeping gass or an area root trap, Better creature defenses like resistance to poisons or the ability to forrage natural cures to them, creature damage mitigation so if a creature does get close enough to attack I can more easily block/dodge/or counter it.

I don't want to have to play a combat profession I don't like just for the DPS to be the best hunter. I want to be the best hunter because I am a MASTER RANGER.

---

One thing I really hate is having to master a combat profession to get attention. The more creative bunch of people around here are getting nothing out of this deal. Ranger right now are support. That is all, If you look through nearly every application of the word ranger it means defender, protector, etc. of the wilds to some degree. That is why we have things like rescue, camo kits, higher level camps to defend versus aggressors to help and guide people through the wilds. A damage multiplier versus creatures I don't think is really suited for ranger. It doesn't matter if a stacker stacks, he isn't going to do more damage with his VK because he has a stun baton, that is pure defense. Though a rifleman, tkm, or fencer with a x2.5 to creatures would be so utterly unbalanced it boggles the mind. Considering that most of the enemies in this game are creatures, that is unacceptable. Lowering resists with traps is kind of iffy, though it would allow others to help combat the creatures with 100% resist since some professions do not have the luxury of having multiple damage types. Though an innate, passive ability to disregard these resists is also a thing I do not want to see.

I would rather see a new weapon(s) than having ranger powerups with DoT and status effects being applied to current ones. A compromise would be having these mods with ONLY(AND maybe to a lesser degree on other weapons, hopefully not) these ranger weapons. It would allow efficient creature take down, with limits on what you can use. Say having a compound bow with heavy armor piercing and damage modifiers as you go up the trees (You could make arrows perhaps with bone increasing the amount of trapping potential, making it where you would have the mods in one tree and the abilities/crafting in others. IE: Trapping having arrows that could confuse a creature to attack his brethren, distinctive things to make us creative but still being open to interesting profession combinations). Maybe different arrow heads to apply different damage types, thinking outside of the box and not trying to quick fix is what we need. Quick fixes lead to flavor of the month ordeals and really can create more bitching. Take it slow if you need to but do it right (IE: slowly adding and testing the features, not bundling it into one huge patch).

Back to the rant: Also maybe a knife with certain attacks, not broad attacks you can use with both but specific ones (DoT poisons possibly being added to the knife would be interesting, just something raw not relying on your other profession). Also the stalk idea sounds interesting, and an ability to deal a critical hit while sneaking or stalking would be a interesting idea (Think backstab knife attack maybe). Though this is all just brainstorming, probably not want you want to hear either. There are alot of creative combinations out there not getting love. Like that complete support template of MCH, Master ranger with medic. You HAVE to have medic or pet stims to even attempt to let your pets heal (even fight) in the field. Camps do little to nothing for pets, I would personally like to see that changed since I am shooting for MCH, Master Ranger, but that is just me. Now I know this is a hell of alot of work but I think that just adding mods isn't going to cut it (Wilderness mod and more to hit is a great idea, an extra damage mod is not in my opinion, nor is a ranger special attack usable with all weapons. I mean that becomes what the rangers are known for, and who wants to see a T21 with that kind of attack. Not me). Sorry if my rant wasn't very constructive or want you wanted to hear but it is my opinion . I am new to the profession but I notice things pretty fast .