Ranger Archive
Thread: Please support this idea for bringing back bio-farms which benefit Scouts/Rangers (link inside)
The only way this works for me is simple. bio-farms should work like this:
-Artians/ Archetects build them - thats a no brainer But I would add that they need a component from BEs to build.
This sort of thing is the arisans/acrchetects relm no reason to take that away. BEs would build a chem release mechanisum to keep the creatures docile.
-As for maintanence I would replace energy for feed. Chefs can make Feed bags from Fruit and grain that would need to be kept up in maintanence otherwise the creatures would go from large to medium to skinny w/o feed.
Makes more sence and it puts chefs in the loop.
-For the creature ingrediant I'd say 2 adult creatures of ether the sametype or Male/female of a species. Ether a trap built by a Rangeror a CH has to raise them from babys.
Simple reasoning here if an adult only is needed it increases the challenge of getting the creature. lets face it CHs already can capture creatures live so whats to stop them from cutting the rangers out of the equation. now they can get involved but they need to raise the creatures first. the domestication angle is a poor Idea if you need to go to a CH to domesticate the creature they will charge the ranger for there service thus jacking up the rangers price, and thus a CH has the advantage of doing this w/o a ranger making more money themselves. This way the ranger has and advantage of being able to get creatures quicker and CHs can get them easyer but need to waitlonger.
-Planetary Restrictions The stats on the reasource are static to the planet. Off planet creatures grow slower in exotic locations.
The way I see it the weather and environment have a lot to do with thereasources associated with planets this shouldnot change. so if you get a kaduu on naboo and raise it on Tatooine the OQ of it's meat with be determined by the Oq of avian meat on Tatooine not it's native planet. in alot of ways this is a good thing and probably easyer for the devs to program.
Unlike the current harvesters the bio-farms would have a specific life span to full based on the creatures. for instence if I took a male and female Kaduu put them in a bio-farm on Nabuu they would reproduce quicker than taking 2 rancors and raising them on naboo. I would say 100% speed to reach a full farm on the indiginus planet, 75% on a same level planet (kaduus on corillia), 50% on planet 1 level difference. 25% 2 levels difference or above (Rancors on Naboo). As with anything else no bio-farm can be built on a non buildable planet. so if Dath leather is really good you would have to still get it from a scout/ranger the current way.
-When the Bio-farm is full or the reasource shifts the farm stops. the quantity of reasourse taken from the farm is based on who opperates the harvest.
when the farm is full an e-mail is sent to the owner based on the amout of maintence and feed you have til ether 3 days of no food or the maintence runs out and the farm degrades to nothing to harvest the materials. One day after no feed the creatures become medium sized, on second day, and the thrid day w/o food they will all die. just like mineral harvesters if the reasourse changes you have 2 choices ether set the farm for another reasorce and you will get separete reasourse qualities at harvest or you can harvest rite then and re-deed the farm.
harvest amounts should work as though a person of the level of scout or ranger harvests these creatures so essentialy the better the person operating the farm the better the harvest.So if a small harvester can reproduse 20 of a particular animal before filling the harvest % would be based entirely on how much you can harvest had you hunted20 of that creature and harvested them this also open the door for foods that increase harvest yeilds.If not a scout you would need to hire someone to do the harvest for you. once the harvest is complete you need to get 2 new live animalsto restart the process.
This is the best way the bio-farm premiss could work w/o jepordising the Ranger/Scouts role in the game.
First of all lets look at the ranger skill trees and what they could possibly offer as money makers:
Wayfaring: Camo Kits. I'm a master ranger and I use maskscent.
Frontiering: Camp kits. I uhh.. well.. I can sell my basic camp kits in crates occassionally. Oh wait most people aren't going to care about the 30 second delay. They'll just go check a vendor or email while they wait.
Tracking: Here it is, our meat and potatoes. Yet we only harvest 30% more then a SCOUT.
Traps: Don't make me laugh. We don't even get as many traps as the scouts do. (and many agree they're even less useful, if any are considered useful.)
So, organics are how we make money. And yes you can make money from missions, but guess what .. SO CAN EVERY OTHER COMBAT PROFESSION (you know, the ones chefs sell crates of brandy for 700k to [I've actually seen crates go for 2 million], or the enhancements needed for brandy you sell to those chefs at WHATEVER price you want?) And we can't even make as much money at missions because HALF OUR TEMPLATE is practically used up in ranger.
You guys get one sarcastic response from us and its "well I'm never dealing with rangers again! Hrmmph, these wild ruffians *equips trim lined shirt and goggles he paid 18mil for*" I'm sorry, but if asking for organics farms that you can use without rangers skills isn't TAKING AWAY from our profession, then what is? You try being a class which at master has absolutely no bonus, and more then that, a class that is nothing more then a glorified scout.
Here's something else for you to digest. I've tried doing little things on the side for people. All they do is take advantage of you. For instance once I had some lok avian left over from an order and a doctor was /shouting asking if anyone was selling some. So I sent him a tell that since I considered him a rebel ally from a PA I respected I'd give him a major discount (it was like 500 meat for 10cpu that I'd sold for like 60cpu) just to help out a doctor on "our" side. Guess what happened? Within a few hours I had FOUR emails saying "hey, blah blah blah told me you were selling lok avian for 10cpu, I need 10k fast, get it to me quick." Nice. (I've done this for some other people who now buff me for free and are very nice, so don't assume its you if you're reading this
) If I sell something for a "fair" price, all that happens is it gets resold for twice as much. Now does that bother me all that much? It honestly wouldn't except for the fact that I'm now labeled as a pushover and people try and push my prices down as much as they can, only to corner the market as fast as they can.
So BE's please, don't come in here with YOUR condescending posts, then get huffy when we get a little peeved at an idea that would essentially COMPLETELY break our profession. Yet again, the answer is simple (here look I can number things too!):
1) Make friends with a ranger. I give discounts to ALL my friends. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours, etc. As long as I can afford to have some decent equipment and maintain my structures I don't care about who will give me 724762462 more cpu then the next guy.
2) Help us in getting the devs to make us harvest MUCH more then scouts, and able to harvest all 3 organics.
That is IT! Currently I'm forming the antarian rangers on starsider, to try and have a vendor or two up that is stocked with bulk fair price resources. Then we auction the quality stuff or sell it to our PA members / friends. I know fred is doing the same thing on eclipse.
Make friends with us, get in guilds with us. I know several rangers that have turned me down because they harvest exclusively for their PA members and I totally understand and respect that.
Quit making things harder then they have to be.
-MythInc- wrote:
Second plan even worse than the first one.
Y'all are trying to fix ahangnail with open heart surgery.
Great input as usual, construct , to the point and full of insight and great ideas. I understand now why the Ranger community is so closed. Thank god all the Rangers on Chilastra arent represented by the forum. Unlucky that you speak for all the Rangers out there that don't participate in the forum community.
Fred_Skinner wrote:
"If the bio harvesting farm system wouldnt work I'm fully able to change my mind and accept others suggestions. All I hear is No No No and no suggestions."
As stated before...
- Increase our harvest (order of magnitude is needed. That's x10 for those Mathimatically Impared)
- Let us harvest ALL of the animal
- Give us harvesting style traps -> like your farm but KEEPS THE ABILITY IN THE PROFESSION INTENDED
"This is the best way the bio-farm premiss could work w/o jepordising the Ranger/Scouts role in the game."
Folks want to pull out pets and vehicles anywhere, that was the last thing our camps did (after the exteam nerfage in beta). BH feel that they should have tracking. The devs gave camo (in an attept to distinguish us) and then take it away (don't work on NPCs). Now you want anyone to be able to "suppliment" harvest with bio-farms and our contribution to this is supply the animal (like the "tame" ability? You CH's gonna let us do that? my guess is we get NO contribution in the end).
Do you understand why this might makes us feel a bit apperehensive? Some of us are worried that we will be chipped away to nothing if we didn't speak up. There was a post once that even suggested this very thing.
Why should we agree to Rangers having x10 harvest ability so we can be ripped off x10 as much or harvest ourselves? Bio Harvesters would have a small effect on your overall turn-over because the output would be no-where near the output of conventional harvesters. The demand for creature resources would still be there. No way would CHs get the trapping ability for these animals, would be non sensical. Sounds like a deflection of facts. BH getting PC tracking is a valid point for thier type of character, but all 3 that Rangers get atm would also be a bit silly. They would have to fix it first to work properly and I dont see that happening for awhile because of dynamic spawn system they are using atm.
Why would I want Ranger depleted more myself being a Ranger? The outdoorsman ideas are great, i hope they get a serious look at. Don't agree with some of them but if that is a majority decision or within Sonys profession bounds I will gladly use the camp/skills/and modifiers when/if they come to fruition. Yet you couldnt even lose a small amount of meat trade to be supplemanted by creature trapping? /boggle
Ithink the best bet is for Chefs/Bios to just get thier recipes changed to less amounts of creature resources and let them be able to harvest the amount as scouts or Rangers themselves, or purchase from who ever will supply them.I think probably you will see people then ask for more harvesting in the scout tree to.
Who will that effect? oh yes Rangers, demand will go down from chefs and Bio and prices will fall, hopefully, and maybe we will get back to a more sensible commercial platform. As no sensible suggestions about the current shortfall except thinkin that people are trying to nerf you in some way are forthcomming it seems the only way to proceed.
I will never buy over-priced crap, and hopefully people will try to supply more HQ goods on Chilastra, but as long as people will pay top money for it as there isnt anything else to fill the hole, we are stuck with the current economy.
Of all the people in Ronin PA most of them agree that the changes to mounts, droids pets and vehicles requiring no camp/town is nonsensical. I think you will find the main reason Sony are doing it is because they can't fix the auto store bug and this is an easy way to cure the problem. Now instead we have delays to takeout, put away blah blah blah, silly idea. Wasn't wanted by most long term players and certainly not in the way it is being introduced.
Maybe if you would actually open your eyes and read what we are saying you wouldn't be so FURIOUS.
I don't think theres a ranger here that is like 'HAHA YA! I can charge 100cpu for this stuff! IM GOING TO BANK THIS TO ALL ITS WORTH.' A lot of us do sell our HIGH QUALITY resources for the MAXIMUM price we can get. Either because its a small creature that takes forever, or simply because it takes time and is QUITE BORING.
Please name a single profession that when presented with earning 10k credits or 100k credits that will pick the 10k.
Oh wait, thats us. And its our guild mates and friends. Maybe you should get some, it makes things a lot funner/simpler.
If we were able to harvest 10x resources there WOULD be a price decrease, if you bought from us directly. Because guess what? Most of us ARE honorable when it comes to these things. No one goes ranger to be a "1337 d00d" I'll tell you that much.
You speak so highly of your chilastra rangers, yet make hasty generalizations that "rangers are inherently money-grubbing jerks, who make fun of me on the forums." Ummm... contradiction? (No offense chilastra guys, just making a point)
And finally, I'd be GLAD if demand went down. I actually FEEL BAD when I can't supply stuff to people. It makes me feel less useful, and like I'm in a pointless profession yet again. So please, if you want support from rangers, don't come here and attack us as penny-pinching price gougers.
So lets recap. Make some friends (ranger friends specifically if you want organics).. it will do you a whole lot of good. No one is asking you to pay 100cpu. Don't. If everyone didn't it would be FINE. The fact is, when I'm offered 10 cpu and 50 cpu .. I'll go with the 10 cpu guy if he's willing to offer some of his own items in trade, is friendly, and seems like he'd be a good repeat customer.
I don't have a preferred customer list for nothing. Do I auction high quality stuff to the highest bidder? Yes. But who doesn't? Don't be a hypocrite.
Hmmm......bio-harvesters.
Nope. No thanks. All very eloquent arguments on both sides...but I'm with the Rangers.
We don't need anything else taken away from us.
Good hunting.
My God, 4 pages of this crap already, and the idea still sucks.
Second, why are those other evil professions spamming up our beloved message boards with their ideas, then badmouthing us when we *gasp* don't bend over and accept their views as right and proper?
My my my, what were we Rangers thinking?
Yes it can be boring. Not long ago Nuna meat was the good herb meat, guild spent 2 weeks getting 500k for our doctors because we demand outstriped supply. Lucky it was Nunas as thats about all i can kill with my Novice Marksman Skill
No, I am saying that the economy is totally screwed up and there is a defficiency in HQ/Mq resources which leads to an over-inflated economy. I know quite well the thoery of Supply and demand, atm demand far out reaches supply. You failed to make a point which will address this shortfall. No-one has made fun of me on the forums that i know of, but feel free to start, I don't have an ego that needs stroking, just a need to fix an inherent problem in the SWG game on Chili.
And finally, I'd be GLAD if demand went down. I actually FEEL BAD when I can't supply stuff to people. It makes me feel less useful, and like I'm in a pointless profession yet again. So please, if you want support from rangers, don't come here and attack us as penny-pinching price gougers.
If you would be glad demand went down why are you against harvesters then? Demand would go down, yet it would give another aspect to the Ranger profession. People keep talking like we are trying to break Rangers and for the life of me I can't see how giving RANGERS and possibly scouts at MS or trapping 4 the only rights to trap live animals. Put all the creature trapping in Ranger at novice, 2 and 4 or Master. Its not written in stone you know! They are ideas. Demand would increase for these adding more variance in the, I must hunt resources today syndrome. No one is attacking you but yourselves with statements like "So please, if you want support from rangers, don't come here and attack us as penny-pinching price gougers." they are idea and the bliase attitude of stop trying to nerf us without a decent suggestion forthcomming but x10 harvesting wears abit thin after awhile.
I rarely charge for stuff, usually for guildys i ask them to make a donation to the city hall, for others i try and trade goods for goods, or services for goods etc. I do sell some CL60-70 pets but usually charge what it costs me in travel and insurance etc and some non CH mounts. I make my money from spare resources Ive harvested mostly and a few power-ups which i get schematics for. I only charge travel to Chefs who want schematics for additives though most of them tip me for my time, i tend to rely on player generosity rather than pricing formula and as i know most of the people i deal with this works just fine.
I don't have a preferred customer list for nothing. Do I auction high quality stuff to the highest bidder? Yes. But who doesn't? Don't be a hypocrite.
Nope, never have, never will. Its not wrong to do it, just not how I chose to play. Some of the lvl60+ pets could have made me a fortune, but i do it for the challenge of making a good pet and someone happy. Rest of my wares wouldnt really be uber enough to warrant auctioning.
So back to the point. With no viable alternative forthcoming, and point blank refusal by most here of a harvester scheme, the only way forward is to get schematic resources vastly reduced and an increase in harvesting in the Ranger tree unless of course that would be a stealth nerf of some type 
Well it was a fun discussion, wish you all well, and hope some of the frontiersman ideas get taken up. Can't see me participating in a forum so closed to ideas yet with very little to offer in rebutle. No-one wants Rangers nerfed, just a change for the better, hope you all see that eventually.
Happy Hunting!
/sigh
Let me sum this up in my eyes. We Rangers do NOT want bio harvesters out there because it'd eliminate the need for us. Hunting is all we do now. Trapping a whole creature to sell to you will not help us any. You sure as heck aren't going to need us as much when you can just get BE and CH and make/tame your own creatures and pop them in your farm.
Prices vary over every galaxy. On Bloodfin, Naboo Herbivore was/is really good. Those "cornering" the market were paying 45cpu. That's a lot for me. I never have more than 350k in my bank at a time because I donate to my guildmates and my city. Prices are pushed up by Docs and Armorsmiths who have huge demands, because everyone and their brother wants buffs and armor. If everyone is buying that, then the Docs and Smiths can charge more. They can thereby PAY more. If presented with the option of earning 10 dollars or 100 dollars in an hour, I'm going to choose the 100 dollar job.
Maybe the thing to do is not eliminate Rangers as your providers, but to ask that your profession be more in demand. Bio clothes, food additives and pets are all I ever see BEs used for. All things that are not really in a high demand. Clothes last a long long time, desirable foods are still saleable without BE enhancements, and pets can't be used by everyone.
Ask that your profession be more useful, not more self-sufficient. I don't want this game to become another UO where no one sells anyhting to one another because they all have the ability to get it themselves and spend all their cash on glowy sticks or orange armor.
After Looking over my idea for bio-farms I realize even though I was trying come up with something that wouldn't hurt us rangers my plan still falls short.
Lets face it if farms come about in any form Rangers will be offically pointless. the only thing that has any purpose in game for being a ranger is our ability to harvest more than scouts. BEs apparently aren't happy with the facts of supply and damand. I've been a Ranger since July on Tarq. and I can honestly say I've never taken more then 10cpu for anything. Does this make me the greedy evil Ranger, I hope not. I'll never be rich but I still enjoy playing.