Ranger Archive
Thread: Any update on a fix for Harvest Droids?
Page 5 of 5
Vorpaks
Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:03 pm
#53
Temujin23 wrote:
I agree with that. They should work as they did before I think - they should see the bonus when the bonus is there, but they should not trigger the bonus if they are the only thing you are grouped with. Only another player should trigger the bonus. That is my personal opinion of course, and perfectly arguable.
DaveG
Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:36 pm
#54
At the moment, the group bonus is a multiplier on the base amount you'd harvest, which is determined by your harvesting skill (which can be modified by veghash). In mathematical terms, the amount harvested is a function of your harvesting skill (which can be modified by veghash) and the "characteristics" of the creature you harvest from. The group bonus then multiplies up whatever that function gives.
As far as we all know, (when not grouped) the droid's harvesting bonus is not a skill modifier (but it might be a function of your harvesting skill), therefore the code must be doing something similar to the group bonus, i.e. modifying the amount harvested after the harvesting function has been calculated. With that in mind, the droid "bonus" must be a two-argument function, one argument being your harvesting skill, and the other argument being the standard harvesting function (which is a function of harvesting skill and creature characteristic, as stated above).
If that is the case (and if it isn't it, I bet it's almost equivalent), it should be simple to make the group bonus and droid "bonus" stack, by simple making a function of a function, of a function. (For mathematicians, something like f(g(h(x))) ).
The group harvesting bonus was given a RP justification by some people of even master rangers learning tips and tricks off each other. Well we can give a similar argument for allowing droids to 'see' the group bonus, that rangers could 'hypothetically' swap software configurations, which would improve their droids performance! (Anagorical to pilots swapping chips for their flight computer/astromech in JTL).
Phenix1050
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:42 pm
#55
Two quick cents:
The fact that grouping with a droid or pet isn't a "real" group (and thus doesn't apply the group bonus) should stay.
The fact that a harvesting droid doesn't take the group bonus into consideration when harevesting in a "real" group should be fixed, as it negates an entire line of droids.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:41 pm
#56
JBMat wrote:
There is no fix required as there is no problem with the harvest droids. It is that simple.
Having said that, to the minority of Rangers who think they have been shorted out of harvest by the recent changes, I say this - You have lost nothing. However, you have gained nothing either. You are at status quo, regardless of any changes. If you change and adapt, you will gain harvest. If you remain static you do not benefit from the changes. This is your choice, your action or inactionaffects your harvest.
The droids are working as intended, as programmed, and as asked for by the majority of the Scout/Ranger profession who campaigned for the change making pets/droids unaffected by the harvesting nerf.
The fact that harvestor droids don't work as well as some people think they should is not a cause for concern. I would direct these people to the posts of over a year ago, when pets caused a 40% reduction in harvesting. The fix was making pets, and under the same auspices, droids, immune from the grouping nerf. The next line is important, so it gets set out by itself. Read it twice.
Being immune from the nerf also made them immune to the new changes.
The droids are continuing to work exactly the same as they have before the new changes. No higher, no lower. Same harvest, unaffected by any grouping rules, just like people wanted, asked for, lobbied for, screamed for and got implemented.
Sorry, I am all done with this topic.The droids work fine, just like the majority asked for. There is nothing to fix, as nothing is broken.
JB
I see a contradiction in this post JB, especially the italic part.
True, given I was not part of SWG a year ago, but....
a) due to complaints droids were removed from grouping penalty; agreed
b) before patch droid worked the SAME for me, both grouped or UNgrouped; I have no problem with that either.
Post-patch
a) it looks like when someone is ingroup; the droid does NOT do what it is supposed to do. Point I try to make here is the following: the droid should NOT count as a member to EITHER give the User (owner) a bonus NOR a penalty. I think you can agree with that. The droid is programmed with the User's _knowledge_ (ie skills+bonusses in the form of FOOD and now being grouped or not), so it should work the same.
Fact is: it does NOT work the same.
b) This fact contradicts your statement the droid behaviour that was cried out for should make them immune to a change is according to the fact above NOT in place and not true.
If I think of it, I think it's merely because the problem is because a MR got a +50 bonus on the skill, which is capped by the droid. Hence it again shows that the droid formula for harvesting is in fact a bit too static: the increase of the harvesting skill by +50 somehow makes the droid cap at a value lower (everywhere max skills are capped at 125 anyone?) then the MR skill.
But as pointed out before, someone of the Dev team should give some feedback or not if this intended. If it is, so be it. Poor DEs.
[Added]
As Phoenix pointed out, and I forgot to mention:
The group penalty harvest was introduced when people group together; Droids were excempt of this (they work either group or not grouped), making the point: a DROID should NOT give either a BONUS NOR a PENALTY when GROUPED with the owner. This, in fact, still works the same.
However, the rest is not. The droid is not functional as before if a MR is grouped (not taking into account the group bonus the Owner receives) and even if a MR is harvesting solo (probably the droid's hard cap)
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 03-23-2005 06:55 AM
Vorpaks
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:44 am
#57
frightwig wrote:
I could have sworn that, while grouped with other players I would receive a -40% group penalty but if I pulled out my droid, it would slightly increase my harvest -- rather than keep me capped at -40% of my creature harvest skill. I do know that veghash would help out, but I can't remember if droids did or not..
This is all conjecture on my part because I have not recorded any numbers with my harvester droid. Sad to say, I honestly never have kept track of how much I am harvesting ever. In fact I have my interface set up so I do not see system messages in my spatial at all, and so miss all the annoying "you have harvested" spam.
How I thought the penalty worked was that it took 40% off of what you actually harvested. So if you harvested X by hand while grouped you would get 40% of X. If you used a droid that gave you a bonus of say 10 units to your final harvest you would get 40% of (X+10). Therefore you would harvest a little bit more using the harvest droid, even with the 40% penalty.
What I am seeing in the DE forum is people complaining that if they harvest by hand solo they will get X units. If they harvest in a group with other players using a droid they will get X-3 units. In other words they will harvest less in a group when using a droid then they would solo without a droid, even with the group bonuses. Its hard to know for sure what this is actually caused by, if it is a real issue, etc. because there are so many different ratings of droids, harvest mods, diff grouping options, etc. to take into account. If no one beats me to it I am looking forward to having the time to really try it out.
The other question seems to be does harvesting cap? I think JB suggested there might be a cap of 125 when using the droid. This would explain why they are useless to Master Rangers since our harvesting level without the droid is now 150. Therefore before the patch they would have given MRangers a slight increase, and after the patch they could not.
Like Ken said it needs more numbers to really figure out what the heck is going on. Right now we can just guess.
It is my personal opinion is that, regardless of the reason why, if the droids are not giving a harvesting bonus it means they are broken. If they are working as intended they are working the same way our dizzy traps are working as intended - like crap - and still need to be fixed.
Temujin23
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:49 am
#58
It seems like the two sides of this argument aren't really addressing one another. JB's point is that harvest droids don't count as group members and therefore don't 'see' the bonus. Well and good. I don't think anyone is disputing that. But the fact of the matter is that harvest droids are supposed to work using your current skill as a base, similar to but stackable with veghash. Veghash recognizes the group bonus, why doesn't the droid? It's not an issue of the droid recognizing itself as a valid group member, which seems to be the point that JB is emphasizing. (Who actually groups with their harvest droid, anyway? I never have.)
I'm gonna have to side with the group that thinks there is an actual problem here.
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger/Master Pistolier
agent156
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:53 am
#59
If they fix the droids in groups before I can fire normaly from prone many Bothans will die.
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