Ranger Archive
Thread: we do NOT want carbines
Zekk- wrote:
i do not want carbines
I dont not want carabines, too.
_________ wrote:
Ok... somake a long thread short. Most of u people here wants to be able to be both melee ranger or ranged ranger. and the reqs that are most popular seems to be: TrappingIV and Exploration IV
and also... someone posted something about antarian rangers.u wouldnot nessesarily have to be antarian ranger. they where supporting the jedi, put if someone thats imperial go ranger, they wouldnt support the jedi, right?
I believe all of the references to Antarian Rangers are more to hold up one of the best and moderately well-known examples of what a "SWG Ranger" could be (At least to we para-militiary folks). Think of it more as a model that was used by us to justify that Rangers are more than Scout +, and from comments in the main thread, it sounds like the Devs were even at least loosely basing the new design direction for Ranger on the Antarian Ranger "model" (para-military light infantry type troop, stealthy, demo skills, etc). It doesn't mean that you have to be an actual Antarian Ranger, tho. Some of us do quite nicely RPing an Imperial Sector Ranger, for example...
You do not know what lurks in the shadows. Some of us LIke carbines. 0040 4000 is fine with me.
though 0004 4000 would be fine too since as carbineer i need that anyhow.
4004 scout would be my pick if u had to do 2 scout lines.
Holiday132 wrote:
Some of us LIke carbines. 0040 4000 is fine with me.
though 0004 4000 would be fine too since as carbineer i need that anyhow.
4004 scout would be my pick if u had to do 2 scout lines.
No offense, but of course you like Carbines. You're a Carbineer. This only benefits you. The question before this forum is whether it's in the best interest of the profession. I'm glad that you find it useful and benefitial, but there are a lot of people who aren't so lucky. They want to be melee Rangers, perhaps, or they might not like spending 14 points to get carbines when they are a rifleman.
It's nice to know that there are people that won't be hurt by this, but there are a lot that will, as well, and we have to keep them in mind. This actually helps me a lot too, since I use my carbine as my main weapon (MBH/Master Ranger here) and getting extra Carb skill will make me much deadlier. But that doesn't make it okay in my book. Just because it helps me, doesn't mean I'm okay with it. Too many other people are going to be negatively affected for me to simply say that I support it.
Phenix1050 wrote:
No offense, but of course you like Carbines. You're a Carbineer. This only benefits you. The question before this forum is whether it's in the best interest of the profession. I'm glad that you find it useful and benefitial, but there are a lot of people who aren't so lucky. They want to be melee Rangers, perhaps, or they might not like spending 14 points to get carbines when they are a rifleman.
It's nice to know that there are people that won't be hurt by this, but there are a lot that will, as well, and we have to keep them in mind. This actually helps me a lot too, since I use my carbine as my main weapon (MBH/Master Ranger here) and getting extra Carb skill will make me much deadlier. But that doesn't make it okay in my book. Just because it helps me, doesn't mean I'm okay with it. Too many other people are going to be negatively affected for me to simply say that I support it.
Phenix,
Got to say my view has shifted some.
I am not a BH will not go that route. For me I intend to go a pure Ranger model. Master Ranger, yes pick up carbines, and get CM4000
Now up front I see that as a FOTM template but that FOTM template brings a Ranger up to being an equal with a Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Comando, Squadleader or any other pure Elite templated person in game.
By keeping Scout prereqs to 4400, 0440 or whatever but purely scout Ranger will always be a lessor template to play and not quite the equal of any other pure template.
So I have to say I would rather see Scout 0400 and Marksman 0004 as the prereq than a pure Scout prereq.
Yes I understand the Melee Rangers take a hit. But I want to see Rangers as a profession the equal of any other profession. If that means Ranged is the preferred method so be it.
Above all else I want Rangers to stand equal with a Bounty Hunter, Commando, or a Master Swordsman\Doctor.
The only way to do that is make one prereq anything but scout.
Message Edited by Rolfie on 09-23-2005 07:15 AM
Rolfie wrote:
By keeping Scout prereqs to 4400, 0440 or whatever but purely scout Ranger will always be a lessor template to play and not quite the equal of any other pure template.
So I have to say I would rather see Scout 0400 and Marksman 0004 as the prereq than a pure Scout prereq.
A purely scout Ranger could very easily bealmost aspowerful as a hybrid, and a purely scout template will ensure that melee Rangers have some power too. putting your own good aside for the moment, ask yourself if ranged rangers have38 or moreskillpoints left and a melee ranger has only9 skillpoints left, is a fair trade? In my opinion it isn't. If (and this is a big if) they are 100% locked intomaking us a hybrid, then, as I've been saying for a while, I'd support a ranged support/trapping pre-req. But my first priority is ensuring equality for all Rangers.
Again, other than your desire to be a ranged ranger and have as many SP free as possible, is there are real reason to force us into becoming a hybrid? I haven't found a suitable explanaiton for me why melee rangers should be left out for the sake of the ranged rangers. with scout pre-reqs, everyone has the same SP to use, melee or ranged. The only templates which get an advantage are squad leader, bounty hunter and creature handler.that to me is better that every ranged template being better than every melee template.
9 skillpoints is not even enough to get novice medic, and you're woried about being "not quite the equal of any other pure template". A Ranger/Rifleman with 2 lines of scout pre-reqs will still have 38 points left over, just like a Ranger/Rifleman with carbineer pre-reqs.But stepoutside of yourself and tell me,without even so much as novice medic, how do you think the melee guys will stand up against a pure template?
Phenix,
This is not about what is fair its about Ranger as a whole being the equal of Bounty Hunters, Commandos, Smugglers, and any other PvP template.
I know the melee guys are taking a hit. You yourself said by keeping Scout prereqs we almost as good.
I for do not want to see Ranger as a second class profession. That is exactly what we are then relagated to and nothing more. Second class.
We will never be as competitive as another Hybrid profession.
Message Edited by Rolfie on 09-23-2005 07:34 AM
) speak a bit to the devs (if possible, or if u havent already done this) about the protests against carbines req
Actually, that's exactly what this is about. Right now, we're all Rangers. Melee and ranged templates alike. Would you agree that we should havebe a melee hybrid? No, because it would screw up what you think of as Ranger. We're all Rangers, this revamp should be fair to all of us.
Rolfie wrote:
This is not about what is fair its about Ranger as a whole
We will never be as competitive as another Hybrid profession.
Phenix1050 wrote:
Somebody recommended this on the main thread:
Ranged Support IV + Trapping IV.
That way, we don't have the same pre-reqs as BH, but we aren't forced into carbines. It's still not as good as Exploration IV + Trapping IV, but it seems like a somewhat better solution.
This works for me as well. I do NOT want Carbines. It took me a long time to go back to Rifles, and while that obviously should not be my excuse to vote against Carbines, I just flat out don't like Carbines.
Ranged Support IV and Trapping would work best I believe, even though this is a blatant slight for the melee Ranger's. 