Ranger Archive

Thread: Update from Fan Fest

Iseult
Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:36 pm
#40

Have you ever tried to do a text search over thousands of lines of code? Especially for comments -- comments are everywhere in well written code and your text search would hit every one of them. Also, your search would pull things out of context - that is, you'd jump down maybe 50 lines to the next block of comments and then 5 lines down - it gets really hard to keep track of what's happening in the code really fast. So, you might see six lines of code commented out, but unless you were specifically looking at that block of code you might not immediately realize their significance.

And what if that code had been written by someone else who'd been pulled off the CU to work on the expansion? You might not know why the code is commented out, and if it's the day before it goes live and your internal review team has already vetted a version of the code with the lines commented out, then to uncomment the code would mean that you would have to begin testing all over again.

This is a good example of a practice that seems like it should scale well, but it doesn't - as the length of code grows, it gets more and more difficult to follow, esp. if it's been touched by multiple people. You can't just read it from back to front, and if you're jumping around following a text search things get even more jumbled. If multiple people have touched the code then you might be just as likely to assume that a block of commented-out code was intentional, not a mistake. When you're the only developer you have to luxury of knowing what you intended to do - but when you get multiple developers you can't make assumptions, and it gets worse when you're bumping up against the deadline.

Yep - it might be a little sloppy - but here again - perspective. It's not like this is mission control software for the space shuttle, and it's not like there is no mechanism for fixing issues when they come up. The devs are human - they are going to make mistakes, but at least they are professional enough to admit them. If you ask me, the process worked right for a change - people reported issues with elemental damage, the devs looked at the code, identified an issue and are now going to fix it. Maybe they could have done it faster, but having a bunch of arm-chair programmers sitting around telling them so really doesn't do much to help the situation (and I include myself in the group of arm-chair programmers).

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin



_____________________________________________________________

Iseult
Elder Ranger / Respec Moisture Farmer
Bloodfin


Iseult's Adventure Shop - winner, galactic homeshow 1.25.2007
Fodder650
Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:38 pm
#41

Iseult with the straight logical answer. I wub you

Can you imagine what eighteen months of code changes look like since the launch? Not even including the orignal code that was written. It has to be a nightmare. Plus you comment things like this out because your afriad they dont work. And you dont want to add newer and better headaches to the mess.

And there is no going in and cleaning up the mess. Because it all just starts over again.



Canon Fodder - The former Ranger/CH now unplayed Smuggler
Down to one account and thats only because its a station pass
Currently a Droid Commander in City of Villians (really)
frightwig
Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:59 pm
#42

LastEE...

Thanks for the update on that. After I posted, I read somewhere that the original Sat. 4pm ranger/scout forum had been changed. But thanks a lot for posting all the information you heard while at fan fest.

BTW, did you or SeanBlader take any pictures there? Are you going to share?



kimi raikonnen Kauri
° [Carbineer] :: [Bounty Hunter] :: Imperial Storm Trooper
° [Imperial Pilot Ace] :: Storm Squadron
° [Imperial Pilot Ace] :: Black Epsilon
° [Imperial Pilot Ace] :: Imperial Inquisition

Dariane_Kamutsovy
Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:15 pm
#43







Fodder650 wrote:
Iseult with the straight logical answer. I wub you

Can you imagine what eighteen months of code changes look like since the launch? Not even including the orignal code that was written. It has to be a nightmare. Plus you comment things like this out because your afriad they dont work. And you dont want to add newer and better headaches to the mess.

And there is no going in and cleaning up the mess. Because it all just starts over again.




Need to quote Iseults post here too but too lazy...


For the record: i completely disagree...


In fact, even the very old code I wrote, I still can read. Others can read it too.


Why? We have been using the same set of QA standards: coding standards, reviews and stuff like that.


The bigger the project, the more people getting involved, the MORE important QA becomes.



SOE has proven time over time again it lacks a huge deal in the QA department. Hence why there are all bugs, implementations not up to spec, testing done in a hasty and unsatisfactory manner.

LastEE
Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:00 pm
#44


frightwig wrote:
LastEE...

Thanks for the update on that. After I posted, I read somewhere that the original Sat. 4pm ranger/scout forum had been changed. But thanks a lot for posting all the information you heard while at fan fest.

BTW, did you or SeanBlader take any pictures there? Are you going to share?




I took a few on Saturday, but didn't get real camera-happy (they kept us pretty busy... running down the halls looking for challenges while trying to solve crossword puzzles at the same time, etc). I left my camera in the room on Friday unfortunately.

photos Clicky



Pida, Master Ranger, Master Creature Handler
Kobak, Master Commando, Master BH
Muddy Master DE, Master WS
Katrina' Master Doc, Master ID, Musician

Bye
Iseult
Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:23 am
#45

no actually my point was that if you have any experience working on large development projects involving multiple people and aimed at a large audience, then you know how difficult these types of projects can be, and it's not so easy to call people 'lazy' or 'paid by the hour' or 'incompetent.' Just trying to instill some much needed perspective here.


Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin

Message Edited by Iseult on 06-06-2005 03:40 PM



_____________________________________________________________

Iseult
Elder Ranger / Respec Moisture Farmer
Bloodfin


Iseult's Adventure Shop - winner, galactic homeshow 1.25.2007
DaveG
Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:57 am
#46


Well the perspective that I cannot get away from, primarily as a work-ethic that the bigger the project, the more precise you should be about the software you are writing.


Checking for things being commented out is a straight forward job, even for huge code like SWG, as long as your work/code is sufficiently well organised.


Checking for what you have and haven't commented out isn't a matter that calls for bug reports. This is why modern editing applications colour code your text, to help you eyeball. Furthermore, all editors have a "Find Text" command, which you can run repeatedly, I don't think I need explain any further, you get the idea.


Do I think it's lazy? No I don't. Do I think it's sloppy? Probably.




Freelance hunter and pilot - Available for hire.
Correcting the timeline, one Jedi at a time.

Sheriff of Mos Aga'me, 1KM West of Mos Eisely, Tatooine, Farstar. IGN: DaveG
I didn't use buffs or uber armour, so why did the combat revamp have to spoil my game?
John Smedley and SOE: Reap what you sow
Owen-Lars
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:36 am
#47

Oh ive just seen the capital ship video


/drool





THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
SickSix
Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:21 am
#48






Owen-Lars wrote:

Oh ive just seen the capital ship video


/drool







i got goosebumps. but what i saw was someone videotaping from the back of the room. is there anyway to see the actualy video?



SickSix
MASTER INVISI-PUSS
HadesNNHellriders
You're supposed to sit here
and die while I poison you.

Owen-Lars
Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:25 am
#49

No i saw the handheld one too bud, very very sweet though.


Perhaps the vid will be made downloadable at a later date?





THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:02 pm
#50

Capital Ship Movie

BTW, Yowsers it looks cool!!!One!1!



Calculus Entropy
Ranger Blue Glowie Emeritus
Garindan used /areatrack to find Han.
DaveG
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:15 pm
#51

Thanks muchly, Calc.



Freelance hunter and pilot - Available for hire.
Correcting the timeline, one Jedi at a time.

Sheriff of Mos Aga'me, 1KM West of Mos Eisely, Tatooine, Farstar. IGN: DaveG
I didn't use buffs or uber armour, so why did the combat revamp have to spoil my game?
John Smedley and SOE: Reap what you sow
BioEngine
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:18 pm
#52

FOCUS!!!! FOCUS!!!!



DIM THE LIGHTS!!!!!



Ok, I am liking the Capitol ship scenario, but.......


Please tell me they will do something similar for Rebels. At-Ats, interactive Star Destroyers, what will be the incentive to play as a Rebel? Because they are supposed to win in the end?



I'm just hoping that this is a very raw example of the finished system. I would really like some immersion as a Rebel.





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