Ranger Archive
Thread: Why should rangers get a ranger-specific weapon(s)?
JBMat
Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:20 pm
#40
To answer Owen on his question about arrows.
What I envison (and others too, I just happened to steal ideas from other boards)is not unlike our sharp bone spur. Toss it and the creature takes a mind hit - y'all have noticed that, as it was nerfed a long time ago - as well as going blind.
We would get arrows that we could craft that would do damage and/or cause effects. Not unlike healthshots for pistoleers. One arrow could be like that, causes a decent amount of damage at impact, then bleeds the creature. Would give all Rangers the ability to pull one creature at a time. Other arrows could have varied DoTs, poison, or cause blindness or dizzy ( tho we all know dizzy is freaking useless). At Master we could get an arrow that does major damage, across the board or to one HAM line - not unlike specials the combat professions give. But these would be Ranger specific and only work on creatures.
Again, it would step on no one's toes, no one can scream foul. We are stealing from no one. We are merely trying to add something to our profession that would enhance it. No healing of any type, no uber PvP weapons, no ability to make super cool high speed stuff - just a simple bow and arrows.
You would think we are asking for thermonuclear warhead tips a' la Rambo. I ain't. But damn, 140 SP is a load to spend on 30% more meat.
JB
Owen-Lars
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:32 pm
#41
heh tell me about it 
Not just 140 skill points on ranger but 140 skillpoints taken from potential defensive mod investment, which would aid in hunting.
What do you feel about the power of the bow and arrow in terms of damage? Do you think it would be along the lines of you would use it to initiate combat and for the dot then use your normal weapon or do you think it should be powerfull enough to take over full time from your weapon skill?
As in:
1:
1x Bow Hit: Nice initial hit, single pull, very heavy dot, nice states
then,
10x Rifle Hits: Big damage until dead
2:
11x Bow Hits: Greatsingle pool damage, single pull,very heavy dot, nice states
Phenix1050
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:11 pm
#42
I think it would be a usefull tool in that you'd have to make a decision.
Do you bleed the creature and then pull the rifle? well that depends on the HAM of the creature and the resists. It may be more effective to stick with the bow if your weapons are all being resisted. But on the other hand, your special with your weapon may be more effective for hunting. It's a way to add tactics to a proffession.
In the end, you'll likely end up using your regular weapon if only for speed. However....if you're on a group hunt, which are likely to used more in the future...you can let other apply KD's and whatnot and focus on applying your bleeds and targeting pools.
I don't see the bow being overpowering by any means, simply another way that a Ranger can bring down a creature. Pulling the creature will ensure that we can kill more stuff unbuffed. Bleeds will allow us more effectively target pools. I simply view it as a nice addition to a proffession which needs some additions.
hirosue
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:34 pm
#43
lol imagine this scene
master ranger conceals himself and group friends with complex camoflage .
sneaks up to withing trap range and throws 40 complexity sonic pulse and flash bomb traps . The master ranger ( wearing ultra complex composite armour ) brings up his bow ( a 3000 year old invention today ) and looses arrows . After defeating his prey , ranger sets up advanced camp with its own crafting station and the group heal up their wounds and damge . the group then get out their , swoop bikes and ride off into the sunset lol .
please do not give us blinking bow and arrows , increase our harvesting , trapping and masking capabilities . With a wealth of technology available , there is no way any hunter would use bows and arrows to take out dangerous animals .
Phenix1050
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:45 pm
#44
hirosue wrote:
there is no way any hunter would use bows and arrows to take out dangerous animals .
but he'd use a sword or brass knuckles? Bows have changed a great deal in those 3000 years. They have become more accurate, more deadly and harder hitting. Consider the possiblity that someone continuted to expand on the bow technology? Imagine how far the bow could go with micro-electronics and servo-motors? There are a million ways to make bows more deadly. A vibro-sword isn't that much higher above a bow in terms of technology. it vibrates. whoopee. So does my X-Box controller. and my phone. big technological improvements, eh?
Point being that whether or not you think bows should be in this game there is already a sense that technology doesn't always need to be new to be deadly. and old-school technology is already in the game. You probably started this game with a survival knife. Were you complaining then about it not being Star Wars-y enough?
besides, hunters today pride themselves on using bows. There is an entire hunting culture that focuses on not using firearms. They hunt only with bows. What makes you think that this tradition wouldn't continue? I for one think that no matter how advance technology gets, there will always be sub-cultures that revel in using less advanced and more difficult forms of combat. Rangers could be that sub-culture in the game. Or, if you want to use your big uber-blaster, you can use that. No one's saying Rangers HAVE to use the bow. Some of us want it. If you don't...that's nice,but it likely won't change your gameplay one bit.
Landorien
Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:13 pm
#46
You know the way you describe how the bow has "evolved" I can't but help to think of the bowcaster.. Developed by a hunter species, wookiee, and which bears a striking resemblance to an "ancient weapon" named crossbow.
Then again that is an energy weapon, and you are suggesting bone or steel arrows?
The biggest baddest beasts out there have HEAVY armor mind you.
So, this bow would have to rival the T21 in punching power in order to be use effective.
But not be effective against humanoids?
So a harpoon, which is realisticallywhat it would have to be, that can pierce through the colossal scales of a ancient krayt dragon can hardly budge through the skinny little bothan over there because he is not animal enough?
Sorry, the bow thing just sounds worse and worse!
DaveG
Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:16 pm
#47
Landorien wrote:
You know the way you describe how the bow has "evolved" I can't but help to think of the bowcaster.. Developed by a hunter species, wookiee, and which bears a striking resemblance to an "ancient weapon" named crossbow.
Then again that is an energy weapon, and you are suggesting bone or steel arrows?
The biggest baddest beasts out there have HEAVY armor mind you.
So, this bow would have to rival the T21 in punching power in order to be use effective.
But not be effective against humanoids?
So a harpoon, which is realisticallywhat it would have to be, that can pierce through the colossal scales of a ancient krayt dragon can hardly budge through the skinny little bothan over there because he is not animal enough?
Sorry, the bow thing just sounds worse and worse!
This is exactly why I think it's terrible that traps dont' effect npcs and players.
Phenix1050
Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:39 pm
#48
BlakkStar wrote:
Did Antarian rangers carry around tech bows?
Remind me in the skilltree where it says that all Rangers are Antarian Rangers. Remind me where in the SWG book that it says Rangers are para-military...
it doesn't. Both of those things require a bit of role-playing. not everyone wants to be an Antarian Ranger in the way that you think of them. Heck, I want to be an Antarian Ranger with a bow. Who says that a force-senstitive hunter couldn't use a bow?
Adding a bow takes away nothing from those that want to be paramilitary people. You don't HAVE to use the bow. If you like your knucklers or your rifle...that's cool. But you can't argue that because SOME understanding of Ranger don't use bows that NO ideas of Rangers can use bows. It doesn't say we're para-miliatary...it says we're hunters. I'm simply looking for a way to add to my hunting ability. You don't want it, that's okay, but if it doesn't affect you...why do you care?
Phenix1050
Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:50 pm
#49
Then again that is an energy weapon, and you are suggesting bone or steel arrows?
The biggest baddest beasts out there have HEAVY armor mind you.
So a harpoon, which is realisticallywhat it would have to be, that can pierce through the colossal scales of a ancient krayt dragon can hardly budge through the skinny little bothan over there because he is not animal enough?
Ever seen someone hunt a bear? Let me tell you, they're hard to kill. A bullet does little against a bear. It takes a BIG gun to punch into them and do serious damage. A pistol ain't gonna work.
Yet...
People hunt bears with composite bows. They are more effective that guns often for several reasons. First the spearhead is better at piercing because unlike bullets, an arrowhead doesn't flatten or disintigrate upon impact. Thus, yes, a bow can often pierce the hide of an animal better than a bullet. In addition, arrows don't let the wound close. An arrow stuck in the side of a bear will bleed a bear something awful. Whereas a miss with a rifle means the animal often gets away with a wound, an arrow DIGS into the flesh of the creature and when the creatures attempts to remove it, works itself deeper into the flesh. Pretty nasty actually. A bear can run for miles with an arrow in it's hide, but often dies from a single arrow shot due to blood loss. The wound cant close around the arrow very well, especially when it's moving around and continuously cutting the animal.
Now why did arrows go out of style for hunting humans? Armor. Shields. Materials were developed that prevented arrows from hurting the targets. So that bothan isn't hurt from the Arrows not because he's a bothan...but because he's wearing a full composite armor. If you actually looked at my idea, an unarmored humanoid is succeptible to the arrows. But ARMOR is reistant to the damage the bow would inflect. Thus an armored humanoid is different from an unarmored animal. No matter how thick the skin, an arrow is more likely to punch through than other projectiles. Just thought that you should know that, in case you ever go hunting in real life.
BlakkStar
Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:52 pm
#50
you are asking for a weapon that DEFINES A PROFESSION. Yes that is correct. A professional weapons help define you. It is not as if we are Riflemen with a million weapons already and we just want to add another to the mix. You are asking for a weapon specifically tailored to this profession that we call RANGER. The Antarian Ranger example was used because, by making ranger weapons, you are effectively saying: All rangers are adept at using these weapons. To be adept at anything takes practice, time and commitment. Who is to say that I want to be committed to a bow or survival knife?
you say that Ranger is part combat but then argue that I don't have to use the weapon that is geared to specifically to my combat skills?
BTW no matter how it seems, I heart u Phenix
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Phenix1050
Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:00 pm
#51
BlakkStar wrote:
you say that Ranger is part combat but then argue that I don't have to use the weapon that is geared to specifically to my combat skills?
Does a Rifleman HAVE to use a Tenloss? Does a BH HAVE to use the LLC? No. Choice is a nice thing. I'm saying hey...part of survival would be learning how to survive with rustic weapons. Anyway you look at it, it's good knowledge. An Army Rangers learns to use several types of weapons and learns to improvise. That include using tricks to survive in the woods without weapons. Bows and arrows are good "natural" types of weapons that anyone who expects to live for a while in the outdoors could learn to use. If you give up technology to live in the woods, I assure you a bow would be a good friend.
I'm not saying the weapon has to define you. Maybe you never use it. But one day, if you're gun is destroyed and the only other ones you have are all resisted by a creature...I assure you you'd be glad that you'd learned how to survive using a bow.
I heat you too...but I'd heart you more if you'd just let me get my damn bow.
BlakkStar
Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:25 pm
#52
Im not the one who is stopping you from getting it. Its the devs. I just don't agree with it and don't see them agreeing with it as well. As we said before, if we got it I would use it. But honestly when it boils down to it, I b elieve that your drive to get a bow is rooted in your kinetic damage onliness. I am a TKM and I was there. I remember when I wanted a bow. Yes I wanted one. I fantasized about getting one. I don't know what changed me but I think it was just looking at how the trapping tree sucked in ranger and knowing that we need better traps (and a trap launcher :smileyhappy.
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