Ranger Archive
Thread: Just To Clear Things Up: HTFB
Owen-Lars wrote:
Hakai Wrote:
"Ergo, if someone wants to try to attack something while in relative safety, they'll have to keep itON Safety"
I like this idea. Reminds me of being ejected from AH Tavern because i gained a TEF. I cant think of any way this could be exploited, as it wouldnt handle a camp much like a house, where you cant enter under certain conditions, instead of TEF it would be combat instead.
Having to unequip your weapon would be fun too hehe but im happy just for the combat kick out system.
Question: Would a player be basically imune to attack then if he was inside the camp and not attacking? Such as if i was in group and my frield went off on one and started attacking a super nuna and died right next to the camp, could the critter have a chance to turn around and agro ontome or would anyone inside the fence be unattackable from an agressive creature standpoint?
Why not just have the existing laser fence remain intact with a repel check in place just like the checks for mask scent or camo? The higher the level of the camp the higher the chance to repel the creature. You can also make this so the higher the level of the creature the higher the level of the creatures chance to break the camps repel function.
In the previous example the Ranger plops down the ol HTFB and starts crafting next to Mr. Gorax. Mr. Gorax's amazingingly high level checks against the level of the HTFB, and Mr. Gorax proceeds to stomp the HTFB and the Ranger in it, into the ground. If you spread the bonuses for each camp to repel out from Survival I to Master Ranger you have the opportunity to give the Ranger some much needed space from the Master Scout.
You eliminate the exploiting here, as there is always an opportunity to be aggro'd no matter what. You can also add some content to Ranger in giving him/her the experimentation we've been discussing for some time. The better crafted your camps are, the more likely they are to repel creatures. Obviously there would be a cap that you would reach regardless of how highthe level of the camp, and how high the expreimentation on it.
Thunderheart seems to be very fond of checks like this. Might be worth running by him. Thoughts?
Hakai wrote:
Very good points!So then why not just set it up so taht anyone that is in combat (someone else mentioned this) cannot enter a camp, and if they try to initiate it while in one, they get moved outside?
You could still use a camp for safety, just stand on the opposite side of it. So a ranger places a camp south of a danger creature, then someone stands north of the camp as shoot over the camp, when the mob charges and veers around the camp, the shooter run in the opposite direction. That way the camp can help, some kite creatures...
So someone will likely suggest that it should be impossible to shoot over the HTFB as well. But that to can be exploited, now a neutral person can walk close to a faction base, and place a HTFB as close one of the turrets as possible. That would give the enemies of the faction base cover from the turrets fire while they moved in, and some might even run throe the camp so they could get almost on top of the turret before it could attack them.
Also if it would still not take care of CH's standing inside the camp commanding his pets. Or someone sticking a DoT on a creatures, peaceing it, and then running in the camp before the first tick.
Now somone might suggest to mobs and turrets shoot across the HTFB, but not players to fix the last problem I presented. However, then the faction base owners could place the HTFB as a barrio that the attackers could not shoot across.
I am not against an ergo repelling camp, but I can se how the Devs find it exploitable, and why it can be though to fix in a way that do not create new exploits.
If we submit something that is exploitable they will just reject it, and we have gained nothing. We have to make a suggestion that do not have ant possible exploits that we can spot our self.
DaveG wrote:
Make the camp such that trying to do anything to a target outside of the camp raises the "error" message; "You cannot see your target". We already get this "error" on things we can plainly see, so implementig a "You cannot see your target" boundary around a HTFB should be possible. This way you cannot attack or heal anything outside of your camp.
Furthermore, if they want to make this really water tight to avoid group "exploits", then make it such that if a group member engages in combat, then they cannot enter the camp until they are no-longer in a combat state. They'd be effectively locked out of the camp. (*)
(The only thing I can see happening then, is if someone outside becomes incapacitated, a medic could run out of the camp and drag the body back into the camp, as long as the medic doesn't get aggro'd. However, I think if anybody called this an exploit then we would have to seriously question their motives!)
If think this works, so unless anyone can come up with an undisputable counter argument, could you put my idea to the devs please, Owens?
Message Edited by DaveG on 12-20-2004 06:19 AM
Owen-Lars wrote:
Hakai Wrote:
Question: Would a player be basically imune to attack then if he was inside the camp and not attacking? Such as if i was in group and my frield went off on one and started attacking a super nuna and died right next to the camp, could the critter have a chance to turn around and agro ontome or would anyone inside the fence be unattackable from an agressive creature standpoint?
The way i see it. If we make it where a combat state will keep the player out of the camp, then all others inside of the camp cannot be attacked.
The way i can think of it is a large encampment in the wild. The laser fence is put up to deter any aggressive creatures. Now....some people inside of the camp may decide to go out and hunt this large game sitting right around the encampment.
What i think should happen, they basiclly declare their intent to attack a creature by hitting a key to activate the combat (a special or the attack button will do this). Once they do this once, they get a warning: "Do you really want to leave the safety of the camp? The Perimeter fence can only be dropped to let you out. Once you are outside you are on your own until it appears like it is clear to let you back in."
As for the exploit worry (being able to use the camp as a kind of blocker to keep from being attacked...etc).
Perhaps they can code it in so that the camps can't be placed in front of bases? or make it so that you can shoot through and aggro through a camp, but it won't affect the people inside. (not realistic, but makes sense for the sake of trying to avoid exploiters).
Hakai wrote:
The way i can think of it is a large encampment in the wild. The laser fence is put up to deter any aggressive creatures. Now....some people inside of the camp may decide to go out and hunt this large game sitting right around the encampment.
What i think should happen, they basiclly declare their intent to attack a creature by hitting a key to activate the combat (a special or the attack button will do this). Once they do this once, they get a warning: "Do you really want to leave the safety of the camp? The Perimeter fence can only be dropped to let you out. Once you are outside you are on your own until it appears like it is clear to let you back in."
Or: Some kind of switch inside the base, where you can turn off the fence. But when the fence ist down, everyone and everything inside of the base is without protection. Add a timer - the small generator of the camp would take some time to rebuild the fence. It would take the same amount of time to aktivate the fence just after placing the camp. After x seconds you geht the sys message "The camp is save now. You will have to drop the fence to get out"
Only the Ranger who set up the basewould be able to turn the switch, and it can only be done from inside - so if the Ranger leaves the camp, the "door" ist open for everyone and everything.
Would make spending time in the camp much more fun !
Owen-Lars wrote:
Although a fun concept, anything that stops a player from traveling or doing what they want will never get in. For instance some bad ranger could come along, pop a camp and effectively imprisson the party lol. Although it would be fun for the ranger to trap a group of jedi and get every BH in the galaxy to come look, the likelyhood of getting this will not happen.
lol, I didn't think of that. OK, this could be changed by making it a "one-way-shield". You can get out, but you can't get (or be dragged)in again until the system is shut down. Additionally, you can't fight from within the camp (RP reason like only slow moving matter can pass the shield, but no energy or fast bullet). I would prefer a system, where youdon't have todisband and build another camp.
Owen-Lars wrote:
DaveGWrote:
"If think this works, so unless anyone can come up with an undisputable counter argument, could you put my idea to the devs please, Owens?"
Sorry for missing that first point Dave, i dont know how i missed it, i was probly too busy reponding to other things. Great idea though, and one i think covers all the exploitable avenues. It stops people from entering whilst in combat, stops player attacking from inside the camp and stops people using it to get agro off them. It most definatly works.
As for putting it to the devs..... im going to put a few final ideas to the devs to give them more options and show there are ways to do this effectively, so not right this minute but it will feature in the post i make showing them the ideas we have.
Urg and how come i got a low rating for stating news?
Thanks Owen,
One thign occurred to me, while we're focusing on the HTFB, where do we stand with the other type ofcamps?