Ranger Archive
Thread: Rangers in the true Star Wars mythos
What I dont understand is why so many choose to ignore the NPC/PC elements of the game play just to do creature related things, and why the obviously NPC/PC related elements of the Ranger profession get overlooked.
I mean the HTFB was orginally a part of the GCW in that you could requistion factional supplies from it, and it showed up on the overhead map.
We're not ignoring the NPC/PC side of the game. As you can see I am also a Master Bounty Hunter but that is the secondary part of my character.
In traditional MMORPG's there have been three distinct character classes: Combat, Support, and Crafter. Ranger has always been, and should be, a support class that enhances combat (traps, camps etc.) but can hold it's own against creatures. It has not been considered a combat class before which is why it was left out of the CU. Now SOE are changing it from a support class to a combat class which is not what a lot of players signed up to Ranger for.
I also dont understand why you would want Ranger to be the only combat type profession to not have ANY abilites that could affect NPCs or other players.
Again I dont understand those who claim Ranger as it stands is a combat profession when we have ZERO Ranger abilites that can actually do damage to anything.
Because we were a support class like Combat Medic. I fully support the fact that traps should have been useable against NPC's and PC's and made stronger in line with other status effects. I also think the revamp should have been used to strengthen camps, camo, and terrain bonuses to enhance group play regardless of the enemy fought.
But if you want Combat skills pick a secondary combat class.
And how can you totally ignore the GCW which is one of the largest elements of the game?
Above all esle I dont understand how anyone thought Ranger would get locked into a the 'Grizzly Adams' cliche being this is a Star Wars game and anyone can see what a big 'oopsie' SOE did in making Ranger a veritable clone of Scout
Fact is (again) you dont need Ranger whatsoever if you have Scout as it stands. Few care any about camo, no one ever cared about /rescue, and the only ones who cared about /areatrack were people who were doing the Hero quests, all the good traps are in Scout, not Ranger, no once cares about using camps while playing, they dont stand still long enough to get use of them
Bottom line the current design of Ranger is defective to a large degree, and Scouts abilities make it point less to have (unless all you really care about is harvesting bonuses)
The GCW only effected a small proportion of the population in the galaxy. It may have a knock on effect but everyone doesn't end up fighting.
Many of the worlds introduced have been ripe for exploration and investigation so it's not unreasonable to expect there to be planty of people wanting to hunt and explore. A lot of the recent quests (and characters ranging back to KOTOR) include the Great White Hunter sterotype and imply that it is a perfectly reasonable aim to persue.
Few care about the abilities the Ranger currently has because they are broken. Many liked the look of them which is why they took Ranger in the first place. If they all worked and were useful there wouldn't be a need to be a total revamp. Like many accuse SOE of doing with the CU instead of fixing and improving the current system they turned it into something totally different instead. Shifting everything into Scout won't fix this problem either. We'll still end up with the skills that are broken and won't ever be made as strong as they should be as it's only a normal profession.
The main advantage of SWG over other MMORPG's is its diversity. Players can come onto here and pretty much play any character and role thay want due to the varied profession system. But by removing one of the few Support profesions it is turning it into a choice of Combat/Crafter/Medic I believe SOE are seriously weakening the game.
I didnt say they should know the films word for word but they should know the difference between a stormtrooper and an Xwing (its even X shaped for gods sake).
coldreboot wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Kinshi wrote:
Im sorry not many 'Rangers' read this. It was a great read and insight into the Star Wars vision of Ranger.
I am sure to some, none of that matters because to them their Ranger vision is from Lord of the Rings and Western movies.
anyway, commentary aside, good job putting that all in one place. Thanks
True, but, I have never really understood why you would want to play a fantasy character in a Star Wars game, would it not be better to play a fantasy character in a fantasy game and a star wars character in a star wars game.
But then lots of people playing this dont seem to understand the game. The amount of times ive been asked what kind of ship im flying beggars belief, especially considering they are A, X and Ywings that I fly!
What you have to remember is, is that it's SOE that set the standard for what a Ranger is for two years, and that's what these players chose. It's all very well to change it to a Star Wars specific ranger - can't really argue with that. But you can't blame players for wanting the fantasy kind, because SOE promoted that form of Ranger from beta.
As for your second comment, first and foremost this is an MMORPG. Star Wars comes second. SOE have a responsiblilty to draw in players whether they are Star Wars fans or not, because they are in direct competition with other MMOs on the market. While some players may be here ONLY because it's Star Wars, that's only going to be a minority.
Knowing the films word for word is not a requirement to play this game.
Just my two cents.
Brilliant, just for extra emphasis the OP should remove the commando references from the first post and add these in, so people dont start saying "you want to be a commando". You know those people who think Rangers carry bows and arrows and Commandos in SWG are not heavy weapons troops but actually spec ops!
StrykerX wrote:
Did a little researchingfor thelist of Star Wars Rangers some of you areremembering :
Antarian Rangers
a para-military group based on several planets, the Antarian Rangers were formed by Marus Timpel and Kaskutal on Antar 4, some 600 years before the Battle of Yavin. The mission of the Antarian Rangers was simply to assist and aid the Jedi Knights in any way possible, although they were most often employed as front-line troops in battlezones. They were trained to be masters of any environment, in order to meet the various challenges assigned to them. The Jedi Council refused to comment on their position toward the Antarian Rangers, although they allowed it to continute to grow and expand over the years. Many individual Jedi valued their assistance and dedication, especially in situations where military force was needed. In the coming centuries, as the Jedi Order became more conservative and insular, they began to turn away from the use of separate organizations like the Antarian Rangers. This meant that the amount of work available to the Rangers began to diminish, and the organization was forced to drastically reduce its manpower. During the Clone Wars, the Antarian Rangers were able to briefly expand their efforts in support of the Jedi involvement in the war. Unfortunately, whole groups of Antarian Rangers were killed off, and many of the survivors scattered and went underground. Those that remained loyal to the Jedi found themselves hunted down as part of Emperor Palpatine's Jedi Purge, further reducing the organization's size and scope. Only a few groups managed to survive the Galactic Civil War, but they were openly sought out by Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. In the years following the Battle of Endor, the organization grew slowly, but proved to be invaluable during the formation and protection of the Great River during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of the galaxy.
Dark Rangers
this was another name for the Renegades, those Kilian Rangers who succumbed to the Dark Side of the Force.
Galentro's Rangers
this was the name of the secret police and security force maintained by Galentro Heavy Works, as a way to protect its corporate leaders and assets.
Imperial Sector Rangers
this law enforcement agency was used by the Empire on various worlds where it could not extend full military force. Formed from the ranks of the original Sector Rangers, the Imperial Sector Rangers were sent in to establish order by eliminating rebellious activity.
Kilian Rangers
this was the term used to describe the small band of elite warriors which was established to protect the noble houses of Kilia IV. All members of the Kilian Rangers were sensitive to the Force, and were chosen for their skills in using it. The development of an individual Ranger was much different than that of a Jedi student, but there was similar emphasis on the development of their attunement to the Force. The Kilian Rangers were also similar to the Jedi Knights in that some of their membership fell prey to the Dark Side of the Force. These fallen Rangers became members of the Renegades.
Nebulon Rangers
this group of space pirates, led by Ssurussk, ambushed many cargo convoys in the Expansion Region of the galaxy during the early years of the New Order.
Sector Rangers
a loose association of local system police forces which filled the gaps in the galactic law enforcement system, the Sector Rangers were created by the planetary governors of the Old Republic. The Senate authorized the formation of the Sector Rangers in an effort to bring law enforcement to newly colonied worlds quickly and efficiently. The Jedi Knights couldn't be everywhere, so the Sector Rangers held sway in their own systems. When the Empire overthrew the Old Republic, many of the larger forces were usurped into the Imperial machine as the Imperial Sector Rangers. Others simply fell through the cracks, and remained separate enforcement agencies. After the Battle of Endor, the Sector Rangers continued to bring Imperial law to the worlds of the Outer Rim. The motto of the Sector Rangers read, "What others abandon, we protect."
Solonar Rangers
this was a group of para-military mercenaries who were active during the Galactic Civil War. They were easily distinguished by the blue-and-yellow coloration of their armor and vehicles.
Space Rangers
this was the name assigned to agents of the Intergalactic Law Agency.
Tasariq Rangers
originally formed by Imperial Governor Dem Keval, this was a mercenary police force used to maintain control of the Tasar System during the Galactic Civil War. Governor Keval was given little in the way of resources to keep the system in line, so he hired a group of Iotran mercenaries to patrol the system. He named the group the Tasariq Rangers to give them a measure of legitimacy
Trianii Rangers
an elite army of Trianii which is a highly-skilled legion of law enforcement officials. They are excellent marksmen, and can move with incredible stealth.
Jaxon Stryker
NWW
Master Ranger -Chilastra
Daetori wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with your first comment and GotChip's above post as well.
While people have poked fun at me on the FarStar boards (hence the Novice Aragorn title) Ibelieve the Ranger as it was - or rather as it could have been - would definitely have a role in the Star Wars universe. Just because you read/saw Strider/Aragorn exploring the wilderness in LoTR that does not rule out a similar role in a Star Wars universe that has uncharted and diverse planets in the Unknown Regions for instance.
A person who takes on the wilderness in a technologically advanced world and is able to rely on the resources provided by the nature around him/her is unique and valuable.
I agree with you both. But why get hung up on the term Ranger and what they are doing with it? The idea some one mentioned for Rangerwas the explorer going out hunting and taming animals. Well after the revamp you'll be able to play this type character much easier (not gimped) than ever.
Now instead of being master ranger/master creature handler and a little bit of a combat profession thrown in (or similar master combat with master/a little ranger or CH) you can have it all. You can take master rifles/carbs/pistol and combine it with master scout and MCH for the ultimate Sci-Fi based-Fantasy style Ranger. You just dont have the title 'Ranger', you do get the cool alternatives of: Hunter, Explorer, Trapper, Survivalist. Oh and Master Scout aint so bad either.
I'd think you all would as happy as heck over the changes.
Message Edited by Jaeryk on 09-20-2005 12:28 PM
Actually I was saying that, because there are some people out there who believe a Star Wars Galaxies Commando is the same as a commando, which it isnt. The SWG Commando is a HEAVY WEAPONS expert not a commando. A point you also seem to miss.
uselessn00b wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Brilliant, just for extra emphasis the OP should remove the commando references from the first post and add these in, so people dont start saying "you want to be a commando". You know those people who think Rangers carry bows and arrows and Commandos in SWG are not heavy weapons troops but actually spec ops!
Kinda sad that you want peopleto edit out information tomake your argument look better, rather than just admit that perhaps some commandos had a point.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Kinshi wrote:
Im sorry not many 'Rangers' read this. It was a great read and insight into the Star Wars vision of Ranger.
I am sure to some, none of that matters because to them their Ranger vision is from Lord of the Rings and Western movies.
anyway, commentary aside, good job putting that all in one place. Thanks
True, but, I have never really understood why you would want to play a fantasy character in a Star Wars game, would it not be better to play a fantasy character in a fantasy game and a star wars character in a star wars game.
But then lots of people playing this dont seem to understand the game. The amount of times ive been asked what kind of ship im flying beggars belief, especially considering they are A, X and Ywings that I fly!
What you have to remember is, is that it's SOE that set the standard for what a Ranger is for two years, and that's what these players chose. It's all very well to change it to a Star Wars specific ranger - can't really argue with that. But you can't blame players for wanting the fantasy kind, because SOE promoted that form of Ranger from beta.
As for your second comment, first and foremost this is an MMORPG. Star Wars comes second. SOE have a responsiblilty to draw in players whether they are Star Wars fans or not, because they are in direct competition with other MMOs on the market. While some players may be here ONLY because it's Star Wars, that's only going to be a minority.
Knowing the films word for word is not a requirement to play this game.
Just my two cents.
Jaeryk wrote:
Daetori wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with your first comment and GotChip's above post as well.
While people have poked fun at me on the FarStar boards (hence the Novice Aragorn title
A person who takes on the wilderness in a technologically advanced world and is able to rely on the resources provided by the nature around him/her is unique and valuable.
I agree with you both. But why get hung up on the term Ranger and what they are doing with it? The idea some one mentioned for Rangerwas the explorer going out hunting and taming animals. Well after the revamp you'll be able to play this type character much easier (not gimped) than ever.
Now instead of being master ranger/master creature handler and a little bit of a combat profession thrown in (or similar master combat with master/a little ranger or CH) you can have it all. You can take master rifles/carbs/pistol and combine it with master scout and MCH for the ultimate Sci-Fi based-Fantasy style Ranger. You just dont have the title 'Ranger', you do get the cool alternatives of: Hunter, Explorer, Trapper, Survivalist. Oh and Master Scout aint so bad either.
I'd think you all would as happy as heck over the changes.
Message Edited by Jaeryk on 09-20-2005 12:28 PM
Daetori wrote:
Quite right, Jaerik. Master Scout is indeed getting a lot of attention now which is great!...I am just slightly sad to see that none of the great ideas that have been put forward on the Ranger boards will make it to the game. But I shall not whine over this and will happily be a Master Scout once this goes live!
So instead of playing a broken Ranger you will be able to play a broken Master Scout.
GothChip wrote:
Daetori wrote:
Quite right, Jaerik. Master Scout is indeed getting a lot of attention now which is great!
...I am just slightly sad to see that none of the great ideas that have been put forward on the Ranger boards will make it to the game. But I shall not whine over this and will happily be a Master Scout once this goes live!
So instead of playing a broken Ranger you will be able to play a broken Master Scout.
Nope they are putting the creature stuff that should have been in scout at launch back into it and are stopping pretending that half a novice profession = an elite profession.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
GothChip wrote:
Daetori wrote:
Quite right, Jaerik. Master Scout is indeed getting a lot of attention now which is great!...I am just slightly sad to see that none of the great ideas that have been put forward on the Ranger boards will make it to the game. But I shall not whine over this and will happily be a Master Scout once this goes live!
So instead of playing a broken Ranger you will be able to play a broken Master Scout.
Nope they are putting the creature stuff that should have been in scout at launch back into it and are stopping pretending that half a novice profession = an elite profession.
If most of the skills worked it wouldn't be a "half a novice profession" it would, and should be considerd an elite profession.
Now they've moved it no-one is going to care if they are fixed or not as the devs only care about the Elite professions.
a para-military group based on several planets, the Antarian Rangers were formed by Marus Timpel and Kaskutal on Antar 4, some 600 years before the Battle of Yavin. The mission of the Antarian Rangers was simply to assist and aid the Jedi Knights in any way possible, although they were most often employed as front-line troops in battlezones. They were trained to be masters of any environment, in order to meet the various challenges assigned to them. The Jedi Council refused to comment on their position toward the Antarian Rangers, although they allowed it to continute to grow and expand over the years. Many individual Jedi valued their assistance and dedication, especially in situations where military force was needed. In the coming centuries, as the Jedi Order became more conservative and insular, they began to turn away from the use of separate organizations like the Antarian Rangers. This meant that the amount of work available to the Rangers began to diminish, and the organization was forced to drastically reduce its manpower. During the Clone Wars, the Antarian Rangers were able to briefly expand their efforts in support of the Jedi involvement in the war. Unfortunately, whole groups of Antarian Rangers were killed off, and many of the survivors scattered and went underground. Those that remained loyal to the Jedi found themselves hunted down as part of Emperor Palpatine's Jedi Purge, further reducing the organization's size and scope. Only a few groups managed to survive the Galactic Civil War, but they were openly sought out by Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. In the years following the Battle of Endor, the organization grew slowly, but proved to be invaluable during the formation and protection of the Great River during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of the galaxy.
Uproar wrote:
Just because you quote some stuff from SWG that never even mentions the word 'Ranger' in a lot of cases and claim it defines the SWG Ranger, doesn't make it so.
Seems to be pretty much how the devs are defining it and, to borrow a phrase, "it's their ball, if you want to play, you use their rules".