Ranger Archive
Thread: Campfire Cuisine
Fred_Skinner
Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:19 am
#27
Just as long as we reserve the right to revisit this when they farm out our traps, harvesting, camping and tracking to others.
DND_Cas wrote:
I don't like the idea.
We have a skill system for a reason. If you want to be a ranger/chef get the bits of ranger and chef that make you feel that way. If you want to be a ranger/medic get the bits of ranger and medic that make you feel that way. Nicking stuff from other classes because we are inadequate is not the way to go.
Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 08-06-2004 11:19 AM
DaveG
Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:40 am
#28
DND_Cas wrote:
I don't like the idea.
We have a skill system for a reason. If you want to be a ranger/chef get the bits of ranger and chef that make you feel that way. If you want to be a ranger/medic get the bits of ranger and medic that make you feel that way. Nicking stuff from other classes because we are inadequate is not the way to go.
What do you suggest then? We remain "inadequate" merely because the devs didn't think to include things that [in our opinioin] should have been put into our profession in the first place?
Greyhar
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 am
#29
I think everyone knows that foraged goods are currently for the most part... useless. And the buff idea is great!
However! I would rather see Rangers be able to forage goods that can heal wounds. I think that would correlate directly with the frontiering branch and the Camping healing mods. I mean isn't that what a ranger is all about? They are supposed to know all the natural healing capabilities of plants and other organic sources.
So... how about wound healing at 5 points/sec for 5-10min from foraged goods?
JokitoRoyo
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:47 am
#30
I love this idea, and Owen I believe you have done a great job of fleshing it out. Currently the only thing I use forage for is when I run out of pet food. This would give one of our skills a real kick!
As for stepping on the toes of others,our observance of thathasn't stopped any of the other classes from taking from our paltry pantry. My 2 cents.
DaveG
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:05 am
#31
JokitoRoyo wrote:
I love this idea, and Owen I believe you have done a great job of fleshing it out. Currently the only thing I use forage for is when I run out of pet food. This would give one of our skills a real kick!
As for stepping on the toes of others,our observance of thathasn't stopped any of the other classes from taking from our paltry pantry. My 2 cents.
Totally agree
Nemo0
Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:53 am
#32
With the argument from Doctors and Chefs, have a look at TKA powerboost. It is a powerful self buffing effect but it does not detract from doctor buffs or chef foods (not to even go into all the TKA self healing). The precedent is there for a skill that is similar but more limited (while still appropriate). And remember that the doctor resist stuff is being added as an afterthought as well. It is not yet a core component of their class.
DaveG
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:13 am
#33
Nemo0 wrote:
With the argument from Doctors and Chefs, have a look at TKA powerboost. It is a powerful self buffing effect but it does not detract from doctor buffs or chef foods (not to even go into all the TKA self healing). The precedent is there for a skill that is similar but more limited (while still appropriate). And remember that the doctor resist stuff is being added as an afterthought as well. It is not yet a core component of their class.
and furthermore scouts and rangers can heal wounds without wound packs! Hence the precident has been set, professions can over lap.
DND_Cas
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:18 am
#34
Just as long as we reserve the right to revisit this when they farm out our traps, harvesting, camping and tracking to others.
Completely agree. If they start to farm out our skills then the rules have changed.
What do you suggest then? We remain "inadequate" merely because the devs didn't think to include things that [in our opinioin] should have been put into our profession in the first place?
I suggest we become a bit more creative - duplicating skills already in the game is lazy thinking.
FYIDuplicating functions and duplicating skills are NOT the same thing. So in this case duplicating food is duplicating skills because it has filling and it is buffing a stat.
Just out of interest what stats are you expecting on the food? Master Chef food even though they have to get ingredients, get SEA's and spend a long time experimenting on it to get the best stats? Are we looking at 50% of thier top ingredient & top experimented stats? Is that fair with, undoubtably, the unamed and stated components, that we are wanting to use?
From a roleplay perspective I can see the point but from any other perspective it just seems we want a cheap ripoff of one of the chef lines without any of the restrictions that they have.
Owen-Lars
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:21 am
#35
I suggest we become a bit more creative - duplicating skills already in the game is lazy thinking.
I sugested making herbs and flora concoctions rather than food, although at the end of the day, it would still would require eating, hense the food links.
The devs are not going to create a totaly new system just for rangers to get some love, you need to try use existing assets (art, systems) as much as possible to make it easier. Using the food system just seems a logical choice because we WILL be eating the item and buffing ourselves.
Another idea would be to use the system as a non resource cost thing. You have an ability called:
One With The Wilderness
This ability would use the /onewiththewilderness command line and buff the rangers resistances. The type of resistances could vary depending but could include, poisons, diseases, bleeds, creature damage etc. The ranger would go into a complete kneeled state then the resistances would 'set', perhaps the ability would also increase the ham of the ranger?
The ranger could also use this ability to 'cure' himself of diseases/poisons etc and the buff would last 30 mins, or perhaps 15 mins who knows. This would obviously be an on/off ability where a ranger could choose to use the skill or not and would tie in nicely with the fact the ranger uses the wilderness to aid im in his hunting.
There would be no resource cost for this system and would allow rangers to increase their hunting effectiveness over the average hunter.
Personally i prefer the other flora/herb method as the resourse cost balances the ability nicely but im happy for any. Also another less interesting aproach would be to simply give rangers massive innate resistances.
What i was trying to say is you are more likely to get features implemented if they are taken and modifyed from existing professions so the devs dont have to make new ones. Oh ya an i dont particularaly want harvest mods, trapping increases etc with this ability, we should have massive increase in harvesting mods anyway.
DND_Cas
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:40 am
#36
I sugested making herbs and flora concoctions rather than food, although at the end of the day, it would still would require eating, hense the food links.
Its too close to being a current chef food or something chefs would potentially want. Its not fair on them as a class for us to get uber food making abilities without spending the skillpoints they have to to do what they do.I mean time and again we've made the same arguement to Bounty Hunters about them wanting areatrack and now just because its not us thats getting our skills duplicatedsomehow the arguements we used to counter that don't count anymore?
The devs are not going to create a totaly new system just for rangers to get some love, you need to try use existing assets (art, systems) as much as possible to make it easier. Using the food system just seems a logical choice because we WILL be eating the item and buffing ourselves.
I agree that they are not going to use a totally new system.
Making food & drink is a chefs domain and it should stay that way imo. Unless, that is, they change our pre-requisits to include the artisan domestication line.
Owen-Lars
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:45 am
#37
I personally think there is a very large difference between making chef foods (tradable massive range of statsetc and experimentable) and creating a ranger made food type that gives us hunting buffs to add to exisiting buffs from other profession and that ties in alot with wilderness survival.
If it was blatently ripping off chef foods, like making small veghash, making mind buff foods etc with existing resources then fair enough id be against it. But imo this isnt a blattent rip, just a system that ties into wilderness survival.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 08-10-2004 01:48 PM
DND_Cas
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:18 am
#38
Owen-Lars wrote:
I personally think there is a very large difference between making chef foods (tradable massive range of statsetc and experimentable) and creating a ranger made food type that gives us hunting buffs to add to exisiting buffs from other profession and that ties in alot with wilderness survival.
If it was blatently ripping off chef foods, like making small veghash, making mind buff foods etc with existing resources then fair enough id be against it. But imo this isnt a blattent rip, just a system that ties into wilderness survival.
Lets imagine for a second that these buffs were ranger only and that they were directly correlatable to our profession:
How powerful would they be?You would agree thatifwe could do a hambuff that it would be significantly weaker than any Master Chef buffs and would probably be more comparable with Novice Chef abilities.Generally people don't go to anovice crafters for products which is why crafting professions are a grind. Given this wouldn't it just become /forage mk2?
What sort of ingredients are you expecting to use? To be fair to the chefs these would have to be equally comparable to what they have to use. Given what we hated about camo requirements why are Rangers going to take the time to collect when
- most arn't inclined to
- we don't have serveying skills
- when we could just goto a chef and bypass the first two
Owen-Lars
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:47 am
#39
The ingrediants would be like i suggested in my previous post, they would tie in with wilderness survival rather than cooking. They will be designed to differentiate these buffs as much as possible from doc resistance buffs.
You wouldnt be cracking out your cooking pot and making a nice pie, you would be gathering some flora and herbs from the wild and mixing them to concoct a buff that will aid you in hunting. Its using the environment to your advantage and helping you hunt more.
Obviously the ham increase i suggested would be similar to powerboost of tk but i said that would be open to a new discussion, atm we are disscussing ways to increase rangers effectiveness by letting them add resistances on top of doc resistance buffs.
I dont see this as a replacment for chef foods, as i understand it there is no poison/disease resistance foods around, just the new doc buffs. I see it as an addition. The ability to add temp resistances to a ranger would not provide the amount of protection that a doc resistance buff could do and rangers would only be able to buff themselves.
Again it would be designed in a way that differentiates this buff from doc and chef buffs as much as possible tieing in the wilderness survival ideas. Also take TK as an example, they get a sell hp buff, why shouldnt another class be able to get a self resistance buff, they do afterall know how a creature attacks and through experience in the wilderness has become toughened in a sense.