Ranger Archive

Thread: Need Rangers Input!

Cadina
Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:00 am
#27

I am not a doc that buffs.. I only craft buffs. ..The docs that are buffing is a whole differnt thing,,Lowering the cost of buffs is not an option to me. I feel the cost of buff packs is suffice. I also feel that paying the 100 cpu and 75 for herb meat is suffice.. I just dont want it to go to200-330 cpu for the cost ofmeat then I will be forced to raise prices and that is where the inflation of servers occur. My goal is not to screw the hunters. Just trying not to inflate our server.
Cadina
Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am
#28






Piroa wrote:




Maybe we should be the ones setting the prices.




Hence the reason I made this post!!! To see what you feel you should be paid for your sevices

Almagill
Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:23 am
#29

One thing I've noticed, it's not the cost of the resource that sets the price but the price that the customers are willing to pay.

When I first started playing a set of compo was around 100k, maybe 150k for something uberish. Buffs were 5k - 10k. There were NO VIP lines.

As the economy matured and more and more players were rolling in cash the prices went up. Why? Cos there are people willing to pay the asking price.

A buff costs a rancor solo mission. Ten missions and you can replace that compo suit. Mug a few janta and you can afford that AV21...

Little or nothing to do with the cost of the resources going into the buff, the skills of the med crafter producing them or the sales skills of the doc with a line of punters in C-Net.

While the WH docs idea to set a fixed price seems admirable, you have to ask what happens to the docs and gatherers who don't join the cartel. I hate to be a doomsayer, but the docs who can offer more for the uber resource will, and the gatherers who are happpy to sell for the highest price will.

anyhow, just my 2cr worth.

Oh, and I'll not hunt boring stuff, no matter how much you pay me. Tat Avian? /shudder Lets start talking at 200, 400, 800cpu. Still not going t do it. 1k/unit... nope... well, maybe, just to say I'd done it.



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Nemo0
Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:44 am
#30






Piroa wrote:





Cadina wrote:



Well for those who dont know.......... here's a lil break down for what it takes to make 1 buff pack

Health pack.....

28 units Avian

28 units Reactive Gas

3 Biological Effect controllers

2 Chemical Release Duration Mech

1 Solid Delivery shell


Lets not forget that ALL these components MUST be crated........so lets do a breakdown on this..

Lets say the avain is 100 cpu 2800 credits

Gas 5 cpu 140 credits

Cost on 3 bio controllers.. 360 credits

Cost on 2 Chem Mech,,,,2720

(lets not forget this is made with herb meat) something thats goin 75 cpu

Solid Shell.. 180 credits


Total: 6200


Lets not forget:::: This involves 3 factory runs... 4 if your crating

So then you have to put into consideration the credits spent on on buying the factories (which i purchased some at 81K last night) very expensive in my opinion..

The power that goes into the factories, the credits used to maintain the factories..

Oh yeah, I happen to use bespin port and cake when crafting,.. so that goes into consideration as well..

Not to mention the hours upon hours spent crafting

Oh one last thing,,, what about the resources that you waste in making schematics,,, When you look at it this way, does it all really seem like the people crafting are really making out like bandits????????

Personally I do this as a service to everyone out there,,,,, 80 percent of the money i make i put back into buying the best resources that I can to continue to be able to craft the best possible meds.. Oh yeah the best part.. I have spent at least 10 million credits alone is being able to craft at a 12 point scale.. so even that has to be considered..







I've made about2 million credtis total in 6 months of playing.


Even if a buff pack only gave 1 buff, that's at least a 100% markup from value to price. So, you had to buy some factories and food? We have to buy weapons and food and we have to travel to different planets to go hunt for you. Some people buy armor and get buffs to go hunt. Should we take everything we've bought in the past into consideration? Maybe we should be the ones setting the prices.
Buffing people is a service you get paid for. Hunting is a service we get paid for. I don't need to be rich. I have no use for being rich. To what, pretty up my house? I don't get buffs and I don't wear armor. I have the rifles I need, until they break. I'm paying taxes, buying food and traveling. I can take a few missions now and then to pay for that. Why don't you try to lower buff prices?Then you could argue to lower resource prices.








Also, don't forget that you need 6 different buff packs for a buff. But you do get quite a few charges. So a full set of buff packs is 37200 credits. They'd need to do 3 buffs at 15k each to make a profit (a sizable profit). If the crafter marks it up double (i.e. 74400 credits for a full set of buff packs), 5 buffs at 15k is enough to make a profit on the packs (although a minimal profit). If I recall correctly, those packs come with over 20 charges on average. So one set of buff packs at 15k per buff would be able to pay for 4 full sets of buff packs (although you'd only get 3 of them). And that is if the crafter charged double for the packs they make. I get the impression that this crafter does not charge double the cost of making the packs. But the economy could easily support it. Right now, a 15k buffer has an 8x markup over cost for buffs (assuming you get at least 20 charges in a pack, and I believe that is low). Doing the same with a 7.5k buffer, we get a 4x markup over cost for buffs.


Now, doubling the price of avian and herbivore meat does not double the price of the buff. Even at 7.5k per buff, the market can easily sustain 200cpu avian prices and 150cpu herbivore prices. It just means that the crafters might only get 1.5x cost prices on packs and that the buffers might only get half a pack free after buffing. While I don't like the high prices, they are definately supportable given the price of buffs and the price of packs. Although I don't recommend you force your buffer to use bivoli or BE clothing if you want the price to stay low. Although a 15k buff makes that cheap enough as well.


Simply put, as long as people are willing to pay 15k for a buff (hopefully ending soon with the upcoming mission nerf but we'll see), Doctors will be willing to shell out 200cpu for avian and 150cpu for herbivore. If they can get it cheaper, they'll be happy to do so but they will probably want more than they'll get from hunters at 100cpu/75cpu if it is really good. Some people will hunt at either price. But you won't get nearly as much available meat when it's selling for 100/75cpu as you will if Doctors offer 200/150cpu unless people realize that the mission nerfs make harvesting a lot more profitable (it helps equalize it but missions are still easier and more reliable).


And, looking at it this way, it's the buffers that seem to be making out like bandits. I don't know about the crafters as I have no idea what the packs sell at. With your prices and assuming that buff packs have 20 charges (which I believe is low), a full buff only costs 1860 credits as far as buff packs and resources are concerned. Adding in manufacturing costs, food costs, droid costs, etc still would seem to leave a lot of room for profit, especially when people are buffing at 15k. And the fact that a crafter has the 10 million to spend on experimentation points seems to indicate that the buffers are not the only ones making tons of money. But not all the Rangers can honestly claim to be poor, either, whether or not they sell resources at these prices.




Lythender Nirou
Crazy Bothan


WildBil2Me
Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:49 pm
#31






Cadina wrote:

I am not a doc that buffs.. I only craft buffs. ..The docs that are buffing is a whole differnt thing,,Lowering the cost of buffs is not an option to me. I feel the cost of buff packs is suffice. I also feel that paying the 100 cpu and 75 for herb meat is suffice.. I just dont want it to go to200-330 cpu for the cost ofmeat then I will be forced to raise prices and that is where the inflation of servers occur. My goal is not to screw the hunters. Just trying not to inflate our server.







Cadina, this is probably why your so concerned about seeing the price go up on the incoming meat. I sat down and crunched some numbers today and I'm starting to get a bit upset (not at you but at the docs who buff and cry poverty.)


Cadina... by your numbers it costs about 37k to make a full set of Health and Action buffs. That's 6 buffs at 6200credits each ... does that sound right?


I don't know what you're selling them for, but those buffs are being sold to the community at 10k / buff. I got a good buff on Wanderhome for10k today. The doc said it was a pack of 25charges.


That means 1 pack, that you spend 37k to make, has a Coronet value of 250k. Based purely on resources that's a markup of 675%!


How much do you charge when you post your stuff on a vendor? As a Producer of these buff packs you should be charging at least 90- 100k. If you're not you're cheating yourself because the "buffing" doctors are making a fortune.


What I think the doctor community needs to realize is that whilethey aren't paying 200- 300 cpu the people recieving the buffs are spending 300- 400cpu ... and that takes into account other production factors!


I'm slowly beginning to think that if Rangers are to be setting prices, 200- 300 cpu is not that bad of a price for doctor meats in the current system.





Col. Wyndinn Maer
Antarian Rangers: Wanderhome
SWGRanger.com
Obata
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:40 pm
#32


I figure that since I'm both a crafting doctor on the server in question, and a frequent Ranger forum lurker and rabble rouser, I should probably chime in here. I resisted paying high prices for avian and herbivore meat for a long time. I was able to do this only because I have a great guild (including the honorable Calculus Entropy) that has answered my call for bird hunts many times. I have no scout skills, and to even pick up novice would mean that I have to drop all but one box of my already inadequate weapon skills. My guild hunters were (and still are) willing to hunt for me because I provide them with free meds and buffs in return.

I was determined not to pay 100 cpu for meat because it would hurt new docs who are trying to break into the buffing or buff crafting business. Just recently, I was forced to cave in and put up a vendor just for buying meats. I have a price scale based on quality and will pay up to 150 cpu for avian meat. I was forced to do this by one thing - demand. In the month prior to JTL's release, I struggled just to keep my vendors stocked. After watching my avian and herbivore meat supplies dwindle, I knew I would have to start spending money on meat if I wanted to keep up my current rate of production. Even paying the high cost of avian meat, I still make a tidy profit.

The truth is, it is the buyers who have the greatest influence on the price of harvested goods. Competition is the deciding factor, and I don't just mean competition amoung us docs. Even if I were the only crafting doctor on the server, I would still have a hard time gettting anyone to hunt avian for me if I didn't pay significantly more than other crafters (armorsmiths mostly) who need creature resources. Why would you rangers and scouts want to kill birds that drop 50 units of meat or less and pay 3k or less per mission (assuming you can even get missions) when you could hunt huurtons or bantha or any of a number of wooly hide sources that drop higher quantities and can be found in larger numbers with missions that have higher payouts? The only incentive you could have for doing that is if you had a buyer willing to pay a great deal more per unit. Herbivore meat is not much better than avian, unless a good spawn happens to hit Dantooine.

Wildbill, you are absolutely right about the markup by buffing doctors. To be honest, I don't have a problem with it. They have an investment, not only in the packs, but also in their time. I don't buff the public, ever.I tried it and hated it. I'd much rather let my factories run while I go out and help a certain lizard and a couple Twi'leks hunt/level/die on the corvette/whatever. While I certainly make less money per resource selling the packs than I would buffing with them, I make money much faster this way, and don't need to be around (or even online) to make the sale. Any of you wanderhome rangers who need some cash, look me up. I'm always willing to buy good avian or herb meat.

Message Edited by Obata on 11-11-2004 05:00 PM



Obata Lightingflier (Deceased): Master Doctor, Master Combat Medic - Wanderhome
Opos Odet (Deceased): Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Master Musician - Wanderhome
Cadina
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:44 pm
#33






WildBil2Me wrote:


How much do you charge when you post your stuff on a vendor? As a Producer of these buff packs you should be charging at least 90- 100k. If you're not you're cheating yourself because the "buffing" doctors are making a fortune.



I charge 15k a pack.....law of ave is to take what it costs to make the item times 3 to figure out what to charge for an item. thie first 1/3 for the actual cost the second 1/3 to cover your over head costs (factories, food etc.) and the last 1/3 to come up with the profit part. So in actuality i should be charging 20k plus for every pack using this method.


Yes it is the buffing docs that are making the money.. Like i said before.. I do this as a service.. Not to get rich. And for the person who said something about me having the 10mil to purchase the med exper. I also have been selling resources to resource buyers since the game has begun.. No i am not one that has money coming from everywhere. at the current time i have 2 million credits.. that to anyone else that hunts jantas on dant 4 buff sessions.. To me, it allows myself to purchase meats and resources to continue providing my service to the players on my server.




WildBil2Me
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:13 pm
#34






Cadina wrote:





WildBil2Me wrote:


How much do you charge when you post your stuff on a vendor? As a Producer of these buff packs you should be charging at least 90- 100k. If you're not you're cheating yourself because the "buffing" doctors are making a fortune.



I charge 15k a pack.....law of ave is to take what it costs to make the item times 3 to figure out what to charge for an item. thie first 1/3 for the actual cost the second 1/3 to cover your over head costs (factories, food etc.) and the last 1/3 to come up with the profit part. So in actuality i should be charging 20k plus for every pack using this method.


Yes it is the buffing docs that are making the money.. Like i said before.. I do this as a service.. Not to get rich. And for the person who said something about me having the 10mil to purchase the med exper. I also have been selling resources to resource buyers since the game has begun.. No i am not one that has money coming from everywhere. at the current time i have 2 million credits.. that to anyone else that hunts jantas on dant 4 buff sessions.. To me, it allows myself to purchase meats and resources to continue providing my service to the players on my server.









I understand what both you and Obata are saying. Don't get me wrong.


My point is just that the current economy in SWG is not a real one.


The issue of "crafting" doctors not being able to buy resources is most easily answered by raising the price of their product. With a higher price on their product they can afford to buy the meat. Realistically, your customers can probably afford to pay 100- 150k for the buff packs that they resell. Yes I know Havla and Bivoli come into this eventually, but I think even those costs balance out a bit more than people expect.


In the long run this won't hurt the price of buffs because "buffing" doctors will always be working to undercut each other. And players will refuse to pay40k for a buff in coronet (at least on Wanderhome because we aren't as affluant as other servers). Over time the system will find a happy, natural balance.




Col. Wyndinn Maer
Antarian Rangers: Wanderhome
SWGRanger.com
Phenix1050
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:29 pm
#35

Cadina-- there will never be a simple way to tally up the cost of resources. There have been many people who, admirably, tried to put together a general pricing guide. All were good "guides" in the sense that they made sure newer players didn't sell that 900/800/900 Avian meat to the doctors at 5cpu, but ultimately they failed because there is no single pricing guide. There are too many subtle nuances to consider. If the docs just got over a GREAT shift of avian, likelihood is that if the next shift was PRETTY GOOD, but not GREAT, the cost of that resource would be much lower than if the server hadn't had any decent avian in 3 months. Basically what it comes down to is that supply and demand are always going to be changing so any pricing guide quickly becomes obselete.


As for doctors wishing to set a single price, you're going to find that there is always someone richer than you who's willing to be selfish and self-serving. If, as a collective, doctors decide to pay no more than 25cpu for good meat, you'll soon find that the supply dwindles. however, a few doctors will huge bankrolls will soon be the only docs with greatt buff packs since they're paying Rangers 150cpu. Setting price caps only hurts your proffession. As a supplier of a product that is sucked up very quickly by the community, I know that i have power. I can harvest hundreds of thousands of units of this stuff and wait until someone makes me an offer. As the person who is demanding, you have to keep up with other people from your community (or from other communities-- AS and docs both need Rangers)


You're never going to be able to keep the price down when demand is high. Since buffs are now used by the majority of the player base, avian and herbivore meats are always going to be in-demand. Keeping prices low is hard in a market like this, so you'll probably have to raise your buff-pack prices. Or find a Ranger community such as Obata was talking about. If you provide free meds and buffs to friends, they'll keep you in avian meat that you can sell for profit. I personally sell very cheaply to my allies on Eclipse and I basically just give Obata whatever resources I have (if he wants them). Bartering is good for people who don't care about money. So as a (relatively) poor person, you either need to increase the cost of your buff packs, or do bartering to compensate.



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