Ranger Archive
Thread: The Conceal Question...
I just thought of an amendment to my proposal for the wayfaring line that could simplify things a little bit:
- Instead of a seperate Camo kit for each planet and a maskscent kit, just have the existing camo kits.
If this is done, then camo kits could be used for both maskscent and conceal:
- If you want to maskscent another player, target them and type /maskscent. This will use one camo kit from your inventory for the planet you are on (Tatooine camo kit would be used if you are on Tatooine).
- If you want to maskscent yourself, target yourself and type /maskscent. This does not use any camo kit.
- If you want to conceal (negative to-hit modifier) another player, target them and type /conceal. This will use one camo kit from your inventory for the planet you are on.
- If you want to conceal yourself, target yourself and type /conceal. This will use one camo kit from your inventory for the planet you are on.
"If you want to maskscent another player, target them and type /maskscent. This will use one camo kit from your inventory for the planet you are on (Tatooine camo kit would be used if you are on Tatooine)."
That is a veryelegant approach. It'll never fly, I'm sure. 
"so using /maskscent on another player uses one cammo kit, since it is such a simple skill already, could it use any planet's cammo kit."
Eh... Not so elegant. I would prefer a seperate kit to a command that could accidentally eat the wrong conceal kit out of my inventory.
Eklectrick wrote:
so using /maskscent on another player uses one cammo kit, since it is such a simple skill already, could it use any planet's cammo kit. so if you are on naboo, but you only have tatooine kits, could you still /maskscent someone with a tatooine kit? also, by this plan, you'd have to use two cammo kits to both /maskscent and /conceal another player right? I have no problems with this just clarifying. Or maybe to limit the power of it on other players, a non-ranger can only have one at a time either /maskscent or /conceal but not both.
- My thought was that both maskscent and conceal would require a camo kit made for the planet you are on.
- Alternatively, we could try to scrap the planet-specific camo kits altoghether and try to get them to make a single camo kit for all planets.
- Then conceal and maskscent would work on any planet using the same camo kit.
- This would also nullify the problem of needing specific types of meat, hide, and bone in the schematics for each planet. (The camo kit could just require any type of meat hide or bone from any planet instead of needing Carnivore meat and Wooly Hide from a particular planet).
- I like this approach more because the wayfaring line would be full of abilities, so the seperate camo kits in gained in each box of the line seems too complicated.
- Consider: If we get all the changes to wayfaring we ask for (and I know this is not terribly likely), we will have /maskscent, /conceal, /hide, terrain negotiation bonuses, and burst run bonuses.
- All of this, plus 10 different camo kits (one for each planet) seems to be too much to gain in one tree.
- One type of camo kit for all planets would simplify things.
- The modular camp system is going to require quite a bit of crafting, so the less crafting needed for other skills, the better.
Anyway, what do you think?
"My thought was that both maskscent and conceal would require a camo kit made for the planet you are on. "
Excellent... While writing up the descriptive version of the skill, I was having a hard time resolving the ability to hide from a humanoid by simplymaskingyour scent.
I can see /maskscent at the Ranger level using the appropiate camo kit to produce the improved effect.
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Ok, hold on.
The simplest solution here would be to have /conceal simply hide from humanoids and provide the "to-hit" modifier during PvP combat, a hybrid system.
That way we can leave /maskscent to hiding from creatures.
Hmmm...
But then you run into the same problem we had before, with having to implement /conceal in one way against npc's and in another way against players and their pets. Its up to you I guess, but I think the seperation between these skills should be that /maskscent allows you to avoid combat altogether (like scout maskscent does against creatures now, only for a Ranger it would work against npc's as well), while /conceal is designed to allow you to gain an in-combat advantage of being hard to hit. This way, /maskscent is implemented in one way against everything it works against (npc's and creatures) and /conceal is implemented in one way against everything it works against (npc's, creatures, and other players and their pets).
NRaas wrote:
Ok, hold on.
The simplest solution here would be to have /conceal simply hide from humanoids and provide the "to-hit" modifier during PvP combat, a hybrid system.
That way we can leave /maskscent to hiding from creatures.
Hmmm...
"But then you run into the same problem we had before, with having to implement /conceal in one way against npc's and in another way against players and their pets."
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to resolve this issue is through a hybrid system.
The problem is not with the seperation that you defined (I did like the idea), simply in the wording of Mask Scent itself.
How does masking one's scent enable a player to escape detection by a humanoid?
While I was writing the descriptive paragraph for the proposal, I could not figure out why such a thing would be possible.
And then we also run into the nasty technical hurdle of /maskscent doing two different things depending on what level the player was who applied it.
If applied by a Ranger to a scout, the mask scent would conceal from humanoids and creatures. But if the scout applied it to himself, it would conceal only against creatures.
That would cause confusion, that can be avoided simply by segregating the creature effects into /maskscent, and the humanoid effects into /conceal.
"What you have written in the proposal looks pretty good, and I could live with it."
Not to worry, I like some of your new ideas as well... Especially the description of /combatConceal.
NRaas wrote:
Man... Now I have to go back and rewrite the system again...
lol...sorry man.
If its any consolation, I'm going to bed now (4 am here), so I won't be bothering you anymore tonight.
Thanks for all your hard work.
Actually, I can see /combatConceal working in PvE as well.
That way, a player can choose to remain concealed completely from NPCs.And if they are discovered, they can use the "to-hit" modifier to protect themselves during combat.
To do both, two conceal kits would need to be used. Or a player can choose to have one command or the other enabled depending on their play style.
Hmmm...
Bah, one last thing I forgot to say before I call it a night.
/conceal as I proposed it is for those who want to have conceal be maskscent that works against npc's and creatures. It does not provide any bonus in pvp on its own.
/combatConceal is for those who want Ranger to have a unique ability in pvp (including against player pets). Its not invisibility against other players, but TH pretty much said they aren't going to let us have that. This skill, coupled with /firststrike,givesRangers a unique ability useful in pvpAND pve.
I'm not sure if its necessary to say this, but I meant to say it at the end of my proposal post, and I forgot, so I went ahead and did it here. And of course, this is all centered around my belief that wayfaring should be focused on stealthily traversing the wild. Thanks for reading.
"/conceal as I proposed it is for those who want to have conceal be maskscent that works against npc's and creatures."
In order to get around the issue of /maskscent being better than /conceal at the low levels of Ranger, I think it would be best to keep the creature aspect seperate from /conceal itself.
That way, a Ranger gets better at concealing against humanoids with the camoflauge skill modifier, and gets even better at masking against creatures with an increasing maskscent skill modifier.
"/combatConceal is for those who want Ranger to have a unique ability in pvp (including against player pets). Its not invisibility against other players"
Aye. I gathered that, and I think it is an excellent solution to the problem.
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I have updated the proposal... again... to include this seperation of skills.
If everyone would kindly read the new proposal and comment, it would be appreciated. 
Kurt -
Ok, i see your point.
I retract the "head up 4th point of contact" statement as it applies to you. Consider this an apology.
Maybe I should have said Devs. You are only the poor public face/name that gets pooped on. That's not right.
Still disagree tho on the way exploiters are handled in the game. Why the sudden big push and all? Let people report the morons and use the /bug system to do so, it will work.
JB