Ranger Archive
Thread: Hypothetical Trap building question...
At the same time, I don't think that the components needed for said traps should be ultra-rare loot, either; I don't think any of us are interested in paying millions of credits for a single trap....
Dyrwen wrote:
Rancorrider4 wrote:
If anything I think this new vision of us grants us more solo play as stealthy, recon type players, are generally on their own. I also agree with not having another combat profession craft anything for us. If anything happens and we become interdependant on another profession it should be DE alone in a best case scenario, and DE and Weaponsmith in the worst case scenario.
And in that vein, the solo ability as stealth makes plenty of sense because we can't /conceal other people anymore like we used to. We're not reliant on people for the "better" use of our skills, but instead we're spies sneaking in on our own, or with other rangers, trying to kill or steal whatever. If we somehow worked to make other professions better through our abilities then I could understand us being reliant on other profession in more so in the process, since we'd own a commodity that is to be processed equally. I agree with your thoughts though.
Actually, we can...there is a /conceal other (or ally, or something) skill that will render the traget invisible, but they must remain stationary.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
DISCLAIMER!!!!! THIS THREAD IS ASKING FOR SPECULATION AND IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL IN NATURE!!!! It stems from a debate on the corr forum, and I want to see where you guys sit on this. The devs have not gotten involved yet, so don't get your undies in an uproar!
Do y'all have a problem with some of the trap modules being given to appropriate crating professions (ie. WS making the explosives, etc.)? I think we would have to retain the final building rights.
Message Edited by groundcrew on 09-20-2005 07:33 AM
Oculus wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As a continuation of my original question...WHY sohuld we able to? No one else has that freedom, why should we?
This is just for discussion, and does not reflect my view on the subject.
Because we've had that freedom since the game launched.
We have always crafted our own traps. Flash bombs, darts, sonic pulses. Why should that change?
Becuase Ranger will be a totally different profession. Traps appear to be MUCH more complex than 15 metal and 12 hide objects. No other profession can deal damage with a weapon that they build.
Oh, because now other professions notice us? Do they want Scouts to buy traps from WS now as well?
That's certainly part of it. People always want in on other people's revamps
. Their argument DOES have some merit, though.
Tell them Calc. When we get profession specific weapons, specials, accuracy and speed mods.. then I'll buy my traps at the shop.
So far, every indication is that we will get some sort of combat mods, butwhich onesare still up in the air.
A few static traps that I have to place on the ground is no reason to take the crafting of my traps away from me.
Most of the crafter's side of the argument is that the traps will do damage...if they still did states, I don't think they would care. As I said, no other combat profesion can do damage with items they make themselves.
You guys talk about these traps as if they are the-end-all be-all. Going through hundreds a night? You think you're going to plant hundreds of traps in a night? These aren't the traps you can run around and throw at your target.
This is my interpretation as well...having to take the time to set up a trap and draw your target over it, will not be conducive to using large quantities of traps. But, this is just a guess, and we would have to see how they are implemented to gauge how many traps we will be using. I think people are treating traps like our weapon, but i think they will still be a secondary device (think of a CM/Rifleman...the CM side helps the Rifleman side get the job done).
These Ranger traps are first strike weapons. How many first strikes do you have in a night?
Or, speaking about the absence of other offensive weapons in Ranger, in a single fight?
the weaponsmith would craft only a few of the components for the traps... rangers would take the components, add the organic components and complete the assembly.
thats what i envision.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Do y'all have a problem with some of the trap modules being given to appropriate crating professions (ie. WS making the explosives, etc.)? I think we would have to retain the final building rights.
Depends on types of 'traps' they intend and implementation (not to mention power)
General single target 'booby-traps'? We should be able to make.
AoE 'mines' (similiar to Commando grenades) I can see being WS made
Specific target 'mines' I can see a DE element.
Phenix1050 wrote:
Threethings Calc-- yes, there used to be a couple of professions that could do damage with it's traps. It was called Scout and Ranger. Remember? I used to use Bone Spurs all the time to damage critters minds when I was a rifleman. They couldn't kill a critter, but they were certainly damage-dealing entities.
Wow Phenix, you are grasping at straws here. A 50 point mind hit is NOT damage dealing when you could hit headshot for >2k.
Secondly, the real issue is this-- if they're entirely made by other people, where do we come in on the crafting? This is the only thing in the entire game which will be able to be tuned to a specific person. Or have a specific switch put in. You cannot honestly expect us to get a bio sig,/burstrun to a weaponsmith, get them to make us a mine and then sneak back to place it, can you? Or if it's just crafted part that are required, then Ranger has to start carrying around crates of stuff with them. no other combat class has to deal with that. the only possible way that it would work in a fun wayis if was just optional enhancers.
No one thinks the whould entirely be made by another profession. I said myself, that due to bio sigs, we need to be involved in, at least, the finaly build. What is the difference between carrying around crates ofcomponents and carrying around the resources to make each component. Anyone who wants to craft traps in the field (and the bio sig is a valid reason for doing so) is going to want pre crated components to save time in crafting the trap.
Thirdly, and this is a biggie- NO OTHER COMBAT CLASS HAS A CRAFTING PRE-REQ. If we have to take trapping (which I suspect we will)then our pre-req wil be the only novice profession that does it's own weapon crafting. Thus, unlike any other combat class, we will have a precident to start making our own traps. When a rifleman has to build their own gun before every battle and the gun only has 5 uses...then maybe we should be treated like every other combat clase. Until then, our pre-req is unique, as are we. Having a crafting pre-req is what seperates us from the others. Commandos and smugglers used to have to take artisan skills, but then it was realized that their skillpiont cost was too high. However, smugglers continue to craft despite losing that pre-req. Now, if we don't take trapping, I agree, it might be time to have to bulk-buy mines at the store. Until then however, I think it's clear that we're unique in that our starter profession has a crafting line in it.
It's a bit of a stretch to say we are required to craft as a prereq. I just mastered Ranger andI crafted exactly ZERO traps. Now, if the devs require Trap Crafting XP, then your argument holds water, but until then, I think jealously guarding trap component crafting is a bit closed minded.
That being said, I still have not made my own view on this subject known....my view is, I really don't care. The less i have to craft, the better, but I will do it, ifI need to.
Again, Phenix look at my disclaimer, all I wanted to know is how the community felt about this. i got my answer, and as always, it is split right down the middle.
some did have to do traps to get the trapping skills. those of us who are around from launch
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Oculus wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As a continuation of my original question...WHY sohuld we able to? No one else has that freedom, why should we?
This is just for discussion, and does not reflect my view on the subject.
Because we've had that freedom since the game launched.
We have always crafted our own traps. Flash bombs, darts, sonic pulses. Why should that change?Becuase Ranger will be a totally different profession. Traps appear to be MUCH more complex than 15 metal and 12 hide objects. No other profession can deal damage with a weapon that they build.
Oh, because now other professions notice us? Do they want Scouts to buy traps from WS now as well?That's certainly part of it. People always want in on other people's revamps
Tell them Calc. When we get profession specific weapons, specials, accuracy and speed mods.. then I'll buy my traps at the shop.So far, every indication is that we will get some sort of combat mods, but which ones are still up in the air.
A few static traps that I have to place on the ground is no reason to take the crafting of my traps away from me.Most of the crafter's side of the argument is that the traps will do damage...if they still did states, I don't think they would care. As I said, no other combat profesion can do damage with items they make themselves.
You guys talk about these traps as if they are the-end-all be-all. Going through hundreds a night? You think you're going to plant hundreds of traps in a night? These aren't the traps you can run around and throw at your target.This is my interpretation as well...having to take the time to set up a trap and draw your target over it, will not be conducive to using large quantities of traps. But, this is just a guess, and we would have to see how they are implemented to gauge how many traps we will be using. I think people are treating traps like our weapon, but i think they will still be a secondary device (think of a CM/Rifleman...the CM side helps the Rifleman side get the job done).
These Ranger traps are first strike weapons. How many first strikes do you have in a night?
Or, speaking about the absence of other offensive weapons in Ranger, in a single fight?
Yes Calc their argument does have merit. Of course, these are weapons and I understand that. I'm just not willing to hand over something that is ours before I see some details on these traps.
Complexity is not really an issue. Remember the tanned hides?
Bottom line is, I want to test these traps on TC. Then we can decide were the schematics go.
And Phenix is right, our traps have always done damage. It's not our fault that they've been underpowered since launch.
Oku Kee'lus My own personal opinion...Keep It Simple Stupid!!
This isn't rocket science here the traps should be craftable by a Ranger period and no other crafters should be needed.
The higher the skill of the ranger the better the trap.
Look at how many crates of trap you go through now on a good night of hunting.
Now tell me you are going to find those traps in quanity everytime you want to go hunting.
Again trap and their production have been a ranger\scout function lets keep it as such and not make this more complecated than it has to be.
Right now we have basically one working trap how complex do you want traps in the future.
I want working viable traps, not traps someone else makes that might be affected by a later crafting bug.