Ranger Archive
Thread: The Offensive Ranger (:D)
Owen-Lars
Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:45 am
#28
We already have that, since a TON of people just get ranger for the tracking line. Having a hutning line that has our combat modifiers wouldn't really make anyone dabble any more than they already do in my opinion.
Take a look at the New Ranger Tree thread at how the weapons and mods would be implemented. Big bonuses are given at master level and the other mods are split over 2 tiers.
Bartholomew_Roberts
Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:58 am
#29
I really like the idea of better resistance to poisens and such. My problem is this: How are we justified in being better in combat(albeit against creatures)as a master ranger than someone who has put all or nearly all of their points into combat skills? Perhaps if there was a way harvesting was spread through ranger to discourage dabblers? I'd much rather be resistant to creature attacks and have such an enormous harvesting bonus at master level that we couldn't be out-harvested. Master Ranger/Master Combat Profession should be able to out harvest, not out fight a combat stacker. Just my opinion.
Rancorrider4
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:04 am
#30
WookieInLaw wrote:
I vote for the offensive bonus. My only concern, as mentioned above, would be the dabblers. Due to that, I'm going to cast my vote for having the vast majority of the bonus placed in the Master skill box.
/seconded
Fred_Skinner
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:04 am
#31
OH, could you imagine the wailing and nashing of teeth that would occure if master rangers were granted immunity to a CM's mind fire attack... now THAT would be justice...
MonsofoLexius
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:05 am
#32
I love the bow idea, but this makes a lot of cent$ to me. I know there are a some who would already have (pets the bothan) the Ranged support tree in marksman but what about adding the "crowd control" type of specials already in the game to rangers? Just a thought
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
OK, Seraph inspired me to bring this back into the mainstream...How do people feel about Rangers getting an offensivebonus to our chosen profession's combat skills rather than getting a combat line in Ranger? (i.e. the Critical Hit from the Outdoorsman) I know people like the RP, etc. aspect of a Bow, but coding a damage modifier is (supposedly) much easier than adding new artwork.
EDIT: FYI, I am not campaigning against a Ranger weapon, I am just curious ans thought this would spur a good discussion.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 07-08-2004 09:32 AM
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:11 am
#33
Bartholomew_Roberts wrote:
I really like the idea of better resistance to poisens and such. My problem is this: How are we justified in being better in combat(albeit against creatures)as a master ranger than someone who has put all or nearly all of their points into combat skills? Perhaps if there was a way harvesting was spread through ranger to discourage dabblers? I'd much rather be resistant to creature attacks and have such an enormous harvesting bonus at master level that we couldn't be out-harvested. Master Ranger/Master Combat Profession should be able to out harvest, not out fight a combat stacker. Just my opinion.
I think we are justified in asking to be better in combat vs. animals than a devoted combatant. Know how to shoot a gun at a critter is one thing and knowing WHERE to shoot the critter is another. I really don't think we are aking to have better combat skills vs. humanoids, just critters.
Gelotri
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:22 am
#34
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Bartholomew_Roberts wrote:
I really like the idea of better resistance to poisens and such. My problem is this: How are we justified in being better in combat(albeit against creatures)as a master ranger than someone who has put all or nearly all of their points into combat skills? Perhaps if there was a way harvesting was spread through ranger to discourage dabblers? I'd much rather be resistant to creature attacks and have such an enormous harvesting bonus at master level that we couldn't be out-harvested. Master Ranger/Master Combat Profession should be able to out harvest, not out fight a combat stacker. Just my opinion.
I think we are justified in asking to be better in combat vs. animals than a devoted combatant. Know how to shoot a gun at a critter is one thing and knowing WHERE to shoot the critter is another. I really don't think we are aking to have better combat skills vs. humanoids, just critters.
Have to agree with calc on this...Or they could (as an addition to the combat rebalance, lessen the Creature-to-Hit points for all the non-ranger classes...just a thought...
Edit: and Master Scouts (let us not forget our little cousins) If they spend the time to Master Scout they should have some kind of bonus too now that BH isnt required to master Scout.
Message Edited by Gelotri on 07-08-2004 12:24 PM
Bartholomew_Roberts
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:52 am
#35
I agree about knowing where to shoot an animal and so forth. I just don't know if there is a way to make us better at creature combat without having everyone else whining that we're too powerful and need to be nerfed. I'm not sure how to make us better AND keep it fair and balanced. I just figured if we can out-harvest instead of out fight(creatures)everyone then there is no way the other professions can complain about us to the devs and drag us into the nerf fest.
Squidwalker
Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:17 am
#36
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Bartholomew_Roberts wrote:
I really like the idea of better resistance to poisens and such. My problem is this: How are we justified in being better in combat(albeit against creatures)as a master ranger than someone who has put all or nearly all of their points into combat skills? Perhaps if there was a way harvesting was spread through ranger to discourage dabblers? I'd much rather be resistant to creature attacks and have such an enormous harvesting bonus at master level that we couldn't be out-harvested. Master Ranger/Master Combat Profession should be able to out harvest, not out fight a combat stacker. Just my opinion.
I think we are justified in asking to be better in combat vs. animals than a devoted combatant. Know how to shoot a gun at a critter is one thing and knowing WHERE to shoot the critter is another. I really don't think we are aking to have better combat skills vs. humanoids, just critters.
I have been making that argument in here for ever now. Where is exactly the point. This is where the Creatures Knowledge skill comes in.
Creature Knowledge = You know the anatomy and biology of all animals, their strengths and weaknesses. We know what hurts them, (no resist and vulns) and what doesn't hurt them (resists and armor ratings). We know if it's exoskeleton or not, where it's internal organs are, what are it's sensitive spots are to cause more damage and pain to it. From this part of creature knowledge we should have a damage modifier to animals.
Creature Knowledge = You know how an animal fights, how it attacks, how hard it hits, what areas it will go after, what its strengths are in combat, can it spit or can it jump, or fly or scratch or crawl, does it have poison or cause disease. With knowledge like this (creature level con) and how hard it hits(damage ratings) what kinds of special ways it attacks (two specials) and if it can poison disease (poison or disease ratings) we can defend best against animals. With all this info we are better to defend ourselves against an aimal, knowing how its going to attack, with what, and will it try to trip me or stun me, does it have poison. I know what parts of it to avoid, how far to stand, how I need to approach it and all that. Thus, animal defences. Knowning what poisons and diseases animals have I can slowly subject myself to them, so I build up immunities. I'm not saying total imunity at master, but a good defence/resist to them. And yes that would include from a CM, since their stuff comes from the animals we know all about. Natural.
Again I have been saying this for ever. It's already in the game, based on the creature knowledge. Now if it's based on that skill alone, yes that means scouts will have "some" bonuses here as well. But someone with master scout AND master ranger there will be a great advantage and difference.
Rancorrider4
Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:45 am
#37
Well said. I agree wholeheartedly. Yet another way to make us more than a scout.
Squidwalker wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Bartholomew_Roberts wrote:
I really like the idea of better resistance to poisens and such. My problem is this: How are we justified in being better in combat(albeit against creatures)as a master ranger than someone who has put all or nearly all of their points into combat skills? Perhaps if there was a way harvesting was spread through ranger to discourage dabblers? I'd much rather be resistant to creature attacks and have such an enormous harvesting bonus at master level that we couldn't be out-harvested. Master Ranger/Master Combat Profession should be able to out harvest, not out fight a combat stacker. Just my opinion.
I think we are justified in asking to be better in combat vs. animals than a devoted combatant. Know how to shoot a gun at a critter is one thing and knowing WHERE to shoot the critter is another. I really don't think we are aking to have better combat skills vs. humanoids, just critters.
I have been making that argument in here for ever now. Where is exactly the point. This is where the Creatures Knowledge skill comes in.
Creature Knowledge = You know the anatomy and biology of all animals, their strengths and weaknesses. We know what hurts them, (no resist and vulns) and what doesn't hurt them (resists and armor ratings). We know if it's exoskeleton or not, where it's internal organs are, what are it's sensitive spots are to cause more damage and pain to it. From this part of creature knowledge we should have a damage modifier to animals.
Creature Knowledge = You know how an animal fights, how it attacks, how hard it hits, what areas it will go after, what its strengths are in combat, can it spit or can it jump, or fly or scratch or crawl, does it have poison or cause disease. With knowledge like this (creature level con) and how hard it hits(damage ratings) what kinds of special ways it attacks (two specials) and if it can poison disease (poison or disease ratings) we can defend best against animals. With all this info we are better to defend ourselves against an aimal, knowing how its going to attack, with what, and will it try to trip me or stun me, does it have poison. I know what parts of it to avoid, how far to stand, how I need to approach it and all that. Thus, animal defences. Knowning what poisons and diseases animals have I can slowly subject myself to them, so I build up immunities. I'm not saying total imunity at master, but a good defence/resist to them. And yes that would include from a CM, since their stuff comes from the animals we know all about. Natural.
Again I have been saying this for ever. It's already in the game, based on the creature knowledge. Now if it's based on that skill alone, yes that means scouts will have "some" bonuses here as well. But someone with master scout AND master ranger there will be a great advantage and difference.
Owen-Lars
Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:31 pm
#38
I just don't know if there is a way to make us better at creature combat without having everyone else whining that we're too powerful and need to be nerfed. I'm not sure how to make us better AND keep it fair and balanced.
Actually ive found that most people who dont know anything about ranger EXPECT we can kill creatures better than anyone. They think we are the best hunters in game.
Also you will find the powergamers (the idiots that moan all the time they cannot kill this/cant be a jedi god) only moan when another class can loot npcs better than they can, if they can killsteal from them and beat down on them in pvp.
As we wont be uber in pvp and not so clever against npcs we shouldnt get alot of abuse on this matter. We SHOULD be the ultimate creature hunters and even the devs agree on this so we have a good shot at this.
Owen-Lars
Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:33 pm
#39
I'm all for an offensive bonus over weapons with the biggest bonus at the master ranger level. No matter what happens there will always be dabblers. The idea of a ranger specific weapon branch is nice I just see a problem with dabblers pursing that branch just for the weapons.
The best weapons would obviously be kept for master level. Infact i have no problem just making one uber weapon available at master for both ranged and melee.
I wouldnt have a problem with that.