Ranger Archive

Here we go again. Why does this guy keep coming back and stirring the pot?

The solution is simple fix Ranger.

At Fanfest it was reported Ranger would be addressed right after Smugglers which were to be addressed starting with Publish 19.

I don't like the idea, for all the reasons already pointed out. I'd also hope that you stop making statements about how we're never getting a revamp, how that has failed, how it's certainly not happening, etc. You have nothing to back that up, but you are presenting statements with a level of "fact" or certainty to make is seem as if they are official, when they are nothing more than your person opinions (And ones that would seem to be more wrong than right based on recent posts about discussions and comments from the devs at fanfeston their plans to do smaller "bit by bit" fixes to professions like Smuggler, SL, Ranger and others vs. massive "entire professions at a time" revamps). Until you can reference a quote from a red name explicitly stating that Ranger is NOT getting any kind of revamp, then posting that it's never going to happen and we need to change something, anything now becuase immediate change is better than nothing, even if that change is poorly planned and lacks vision - that's nothing more than your opinion, which you are entitled to, but which probably isn't going to be received well here. It seems like you're trying to build your cases in absolutes of "will and won't happen" that are nothing more than conjecture on your part, but which you're presenting as fact. Several of your proposals are well written and show a lot of thought and creativity, which I applaud you for - but the whole "sky is falling, gotta do something, ANYTHING now before we die out" approach is probably turning a lot of folks off.

To those talking about "what are we".... I still guess I don't understand why it *has* to be one or the other for some folks (talking about the "ultimate hunter" vs the "tactical pathfinder / stealth" role for Ranger). I can easily see that building a set of skills and mods for an "ultimate hunter", and simply making it so that (unlike now) those skills are not artificially limited to only about 1/3 of the content in the game, and you allow people to CHOOSE which path they want to follow. If they still want to just hunt, great - they have great skills for hunting. However, if they choose to use those skills against NPCs or players, they aren't gated from that by having "creature only" skills. When I picked up Rifleman, I can shoot creatures, NPCs, players, stationary objects, etc. I can choose to cover up and take a stealthy approach on my belly, or I can kneel or stand at some range and plunk away at stuff. I can use any number of different rifles for different uses, and maybe someday we'll have something that does elemental damage again. But I don't have a single skill or mod in any rifle tree that says "only for use against NPCs" or "you can only do this particular move on the 2nd Wednesday of even numbered months" or anything like that. With all the other professions, I simply get a set of skills and mods which I get to choose how to use - I'm not limited by the game into only fighting a small sub-set of the potential targets in-game. The same rifle and specialsthat I can use to hunt creatures works equally well against Nightsisters, or Chunkers, or UberL33t Jedi Dude over there (if I'm nutty enough to enter PvP as a Ranger / Rifleman ).

My main issue isseeing where "ultimate hunter" has to mean "therefore prohibited from participating in 2/3 of the game since the skills are forbidden from use against anything other than a creature". We certainly won't be ultimate hunters by being the single biggest damage dealer, I think that we'd be the ultimate hunters by having decent damage, perhaps some "toughness" mods (at least against creatures), tools to help (camo, hunt blinds, traps) and so forth. There's no reason that many of those things can't ALSO allow you to "hunt smarter, not harder" against NPCs or players as well. I personally enjoy hunting and fishing in the game, but I'd love to know that if I DO want to go toe to toe with a higher level NPC, using the same tactics and skills that will give me a greater chance of survival against some rather nasty beasties will also be at least SOMEWHAT useful against NPCs. The parallel has been made before, when a BH picks up their carbine or scatter pistol, it's not like they forget how to shoot at creatures. No other combat or combat support profession in the game is prohibited from using their skills against a sizable portion of the foes they might face, I'd simply like to see that same stance for us. Then *I* get to chose how to finish my template as a Master Ranger, and *I* get to choose if I want to simply pursue the life of a solitary outdoorsman doing nothing more than wandering planets and hunting, or if I want to sometimes get embroiled in the larger GCW, raids, etc. I don't see that as an either/or choice. I think I'd be quite happy to see some of the great ideas in the Outdoorsman (plus I love the trap launcher idea Phen) implemented, with the single biggest point being that we are no longer gated to creature-only on specials and traps.

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Phenix1050 wrote:

Seriously...enough. People don't want Ranger gone. They want a viable profession that's unique and fun to play. not a novice profession that's overpowered. If people wanted to be uber scouts, they'd be scouts. Rangers are meant to be so much more. and while you see to have a depressing lack of patience, I'm much more willing to sit here and wait for a revamp that helps us rather than see the profession I love get deleted because some people can't wait it out.

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Kinshi wrote:

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Phenix1050 wrote:

Seriously...enough. People don't want Ranger gone. They want a viable profession that's unique and fun to play. not a novice profession that's overpowered. If people wanted to be uber scouts, they'd be scouts. Rangers are meant to be so much more. and while you see to have a depressing lack of patience, I'm much more willing to sit here and wait for a revamp that helps us rather than see the profession I love get deleted because some people can't wait it out.

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2 years man!!! That is how long Ranger has been declining, You are betting on a fantasy, I am basing the argument on the reality. Waiting 2 plus years is not being paitent, its called wasting time and effort and for what, to have the chance to brag 2 years later and say "Itold you it would come?" Tell me what makes you think a revamp will come next year let alone this year, other than just wishing it were true? You would have us mired where we are indefintely, waiting?

Hasnt the way SOE has handled the same types of problems with other professions been any indication to you what is likley to happen here? Go review the last 2 years of publishes and tell me what you see.

Im beyond caring whatRanger were meant to be in the orginal design because I realize that doesnt count for squat now. You think I like it that Ranger has gotten to where it is? Hell no but I think is short sighted and unproductive to keep plugging away at an effort that has continued to produce nothing.

You can play the role of Don Quixote if you like but Im going to view our situation objectively, not based on what I wish were true.

Sitting and waiting for things to happen to usis NOT a Ranger virtue...adapting, overcoming, and improvising is. We sit and wait, we are guaranteed to die as a viable profession. We change, we adapt into something else, we survive.

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As several folks in this community can atest to, I am also not a patient person *coughcalccough*, however your argument has one serious flaw.

The dev team has paid less attention to novice professions than to Ranger, which is hard to believe. If any focus will be given on anything it will be on Elite professions. While I understand your desire to see things move along, this is not something I would support either.

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Osiraos wrote:

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Temujin23 wrote:

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Kinshi and Calc wrote:

Stuff.

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It's time we had all had a good long think about what Ranger is.

Let's forego looking into the future for just a bit, and instead take a look back. SOE failed at building us from the very beginning; we desperately need to reexamine the basic nature of our profession before expanding upon it.

ceaseless forum bickering, which dances about but never engages our primary problem has got to stop. We're not jedi. We can do better than this.

Who the hell are we?

What the hell are we?

al-djinn'i

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QFE.

We're all frustrated and burnt out (I kinda brought this up in another post), but we can't take our frustrations out on each other. Al-djinn'i is right, we need to re-evaluate our needs as a profession and consider the MANY types of gameplay that Ranger affords us. I've never written a proposal like N'Rass' Outdoorsman... but I think it might now.

A while ago I started a post: Origin of Ranger. It kind of is relevant. Sparking discussion is good... but when it gets to hopelessness and name calling, we need to step back.

I want Ranger to live on. And believe or not, all these new faces interested in our profession should be lifting our spirits. I'm seeing more Rangers on Flurry now. More people are coming up to me and asking me about Ranger.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Message Edited by Osiraos on 06-15-200510:56 PM

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I agree with everything you are saying (tho dont get too excited about the new Rnagers, given all the /respec going on.) IF theya re still here in December, than you have something.

But yes..this all gets back to those questions....

Who the hell are we?

What the hell are we

We dont know, SOE doesnt know, thus the predicament. ALl we have are competing views of what Ranger means.

I will add this, the Webster's Dictionary defintion of Ranger to illustrate this problem

1. A wanderer; a rover.


2. A member of an armed troop employed in patrolling a specific region.


3. Ranger A member of a group of U.S. soldiers specially trained for making raids either on foot, in ground vehicles, or by airlift.


4. 
   
   
   
   1. A warden employed to maintain and protect a natural area, such as a forest or park.
   
   
   2. Chiefly British. The keeper of a royal forest or park.

Personally I think this has Pathfinder written all over it.

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AragornSoS wrote:

My main issue isseeing where "ultimate hunter" has to mean "therefore prohibited from participating in 2/3 of the game since the skills are forbidden from use against anything other than a creature". We certainly won't be ultimate hunters by being the single biggest damage dealer, I think that we'd be the ultimate hunters by having decent damage, perhaps some "toughness" mods (at least against creatures), tools to help (camo, hunt blinds, traps) and so forth. There's no reason that many of those things can't ALSO allow you to "hunt smarter, not harder" against NPCs or players as well. I personally enjoy hunting and fishing in the game, but I'd love to know that if I DO want to go toe to toe with a higher level NPC, using the same tactics and skills that will give me a greater chance of survival against some rather nasty beasties will also be at least SOMEWHAT useful against NPCs. The parallel has been made before, when a BH picks up their carbine or scatter pistol, it's not like they forget how to shoot at creatures. No other combat or combat support profession in the game is prohibited from using their skills against a sizable portion of the foes they might face, I'd simply like to see that same stance for us. Then *I* get to chose how to finish my template as a Master Ranger, and *I* get to choose if I want to simply pursue the life of a solitary outdoorsman doing nothing more than wandering planets and hunting, or if I want to sometimes get embroiled in the larger GCW, raids, etc. I don't see that as an either/or choice. I think I'd be quite happy to see some of the great ideas in the Outdoorsman (plus I love the trap launcher idea Phen) implemented, with the single biggest point being that we are no longer gated to creature-only on specials and traps.

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You and I completely agree on this.
Still the question has to be asked, and the community has to come to a general consensus on where we want our profession to go. I think it would be safe to say to add some general ranged/melee mods & defenses. Personally, I don't want "creature centric" bonuses... that excludes us to the PvP crowd and High Level NPCs. I'm fine that our traps only work on creatures, but make ALL of them effective. Traps are just another tool in the Ranger's arsenal.Just give us mods (at least in defenses) that can help us against other players as well as game content.

Of course, this is all just my two cents.

However, especially in-light of the combat revamp, PvP is supposed to be more accessible than ever, so it would be a shame if we were still excluded from all that. Despite what the devs have said, there's still a case to make traps usable on non-creatures, for instance. However, to fit in with the combat revamp, we need a whole set of combat specials. It's just a question of how do you balance our effectiveness against creatures and non-creatures? For that question our profession seems to be in a unique predicament.

I don't understand the implications that Ranger is a broken profession. It is not broken for me.

My Ranger (Medra) hunts where she wants when she wants. She stood shoulder to shoulder with Singing Mountain Clan Huntresses on Dath yesterday. Her camo doesn't break. She solos lvl 82 rancors, huurtons, pikets, quenkers; whatever she needs hides from.

She does PvE anytime she wants. I've just equipped a carbine speed +4 tape for her that she looted in the Akuuan cave. She does high-end PvE with friends. She has earned the badge for killing Kiin Dray in the nightsister spider cave.

She does PvP anytime she wants. She played with TUA earlier this week in a night long slugfest of Rebel vs. Imp on Talus. She used areatrack to discover Vonik (Imp) outside TUA city sizing up our strength and level of preparedness. She stood toe-to-toe with dark jedi in the basement of the Imp base firing away with her carbine. She took damage, got incapp'd a few times. Mainly, she had a spanking good time for the entire night. She gave Master Rangers a good name and some respect in PvP. She even got a thank you for her efforts.

A Master Ranger makes himself or herself into whatever they want to be.

I play Ranger because of the lifestyle of Rangers in the Star Wars storylines. They fought, yes. They were, however, very resourceful individuals most often seen alone and in the wilderness. I run across folks out in the sticks. They send me tells and ask about the Ranger life. Medra is respected and admired by those who still see Ranger for the role that it is. It is not a uniformed soldier in a standing army. It is not a squad leader. It is not a novice. Not a novice profession, not a novice hunter, not a novice supporter. It is a unique and valued part of Star Wars heritage.

If your true calling is not Ranger, don't struggle with that. Play what you like.

I mean no disrespect to anyone. I just felt the need to express myself.

Message Edited by Tread_online on 06-18-2005 12:41 PM

Message Edited by Tread_online on 06-18-2005 01:54 PM