Ranger Archive
Thread: Pub 20 = No Ranger Love
Goldear wrote:
But I also ask...when is enough...enough?
I was quiet on these boards, read but never posted much, until about last winter, when I decided for myself...that enough is enough. They need to do somethign for us. We've all been patient and friendly.
I honestly believe that when I move on to a new game(bound to happen some day/year) that we will still be discussing the same things about Rangers that have been discussed on this forum for ever. Without ever..ever hearing from any Developer or anyone connected with SOE and Rangers are still the way they are now.
How is that for optimism?
They can bork rangers time and time again..but I will quit SWG before I ever abandon Rangers and join that stupid Jedi game they are pushing on us!!!
Message Edited by Goldear on 07-19-2005 09:56 AM
I do understand the enough is enough. The tone of my last post on the Corr forum had a harshness to it that I have been regretting ever since. When I hit submit I felt justified in my frustration, but if the result is negative - hurt feelings and the drying up of willing communication - was it really justified? Definitely not. It doesn't matter if enough is enough.
Speaking strictly for myself: overwhelming negativity on a forum has one sure fire result. it drives away the people who go there to share info and have fun. That is why I personally never go to the Jedi, BH, or CH forums, even though I have been a CH since launch. Way back when in the "CH nerf" I got sick of the nastiness on that forum and have never really gone back to see if it lifted. If I hadn't had the bad judgement to become a Corr I probably would have left the Ranger forum about a month ago. It was wicked bad for a while, and when I have to force myself to log-in/sign-on then it is time for me to go do something else.
I am glad now that I didn't, because the forums have recovered quite a bit and I am having fun.
I am sad that we have not tempted back folks like Fred Skinner and some others, but a lot of old people who took "breaks" around that time came back and we have a ton of new people as well Our posts set the tone for these new people, and also decide: if the developers do come and ask for our feedback will they meet helpful, clear suggestions, or flames? Right now I think it would be flames. They cannot go back and erase the past, the resons behind the flames. But we both can modify our future behavior.
Vorpaks wrote:
BioEngine wrote:
To anyone saying "don't whine too much, or we will get shafted," that is not a very well thought out response. Would you justify using that argument if every one of our abilities but Creature Harvesting were removed by a bug, and ignored for several months before being addressed?
I could ask here: is attacking each other really going to get the issues fixed any sooner? Please watch your tones (all) - they become hurtful and create misunderstanding. I know you are frustrated but do not take it out on each other.
I personally feel that to get our issues addressed correctly by the developers we have to foster a relationship of trust and communication (both ways of course). Insulting the dev team (no matter how good you feel afterwards) does not do that. They may fix your issues, but they probably will do it their own way without bothering to read your suggestions or asking for your feedback. Then you get a result totally different from what you want/expected and whine some more.
I think what every Corr and probably everyone who has ever played on Test Center wishes is that they could just grab a developer for like 10 minutes and actually show them the problem and explain how it should work. Even more they wish that the developers would feel comfotable enough to pull you aside and say "Hey, we are thinking of making this change - what do you think?"
I don't think either side will ever progress (or regress) to the point where this is possible, but it is the fond hope of many. And the desire behind the request to "please stop whining."
QFE
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin
Vorpaks wrote:
/whisper I'm practising my "mom" tone. Is it working?
*Coweing in the corner*
A litte...
I hate to argue on forums.
But I still stand by my opinion that I am on firm ground and they are the ones at fault here, not rangers and we have the rightto complain. But I've taken a few training courses on negotiation in rl and I know that approaching them in anger really does not help.
The reason I get angry at them is when I see a stone, mute, wall in front of me, that neither repsonds or even addresses any problems of Rangersapproaching 2 years now.AsCorrespondantsyou don't have that view I know. But we are the rank and file of rangerdom. And lot of long time Rangers are starting to be more and more vocal. I've seen on our forums here we can't deny it the outcry is getting louder and louder with each passing Pub.
You see a statement of conversations with Dev's and they talk about a "ranger hat" .(I don't mean to belittle the ranger hat now) omg..we have bigger problems than a "ranger hat" and they don't even meantion or recognize the problemsexist !
Hence the frustration.
As usual, Paks is on the ball.
What good comes of the flames? the rants? nothing. If one charted the "flames/rants cycle" you'd notice that there have now been about 3 distinct spikes of extreme frustration. The net result of which has been ZERO change. People complain that our "be nice and helpful" manner might not work, but the one serious change I've seen in the past 6 months has been that we got the harvesting bonus to Master Ranger massively increased. And those who were here should remember that the only thread that got any attention was the thread where Paks and others laid out information in a polite and helpful way. That info got us the change, not the screaming and yelling of people. And yes, I was one of the people screaming and flaming. But I learned from that experience.
We will never change the developers priorities by flaming. There are far too many other professions with far too many whiners.So whining/flaming solves NOTHING. Being nice, polite and insightful may also result in no change, but at least we can feel good about ourselves and won't work ourselves up. Think of it this way: you can go 15 miles per hour in rush hour traffic when you're in a hurry, and you can go 15 miles per hour through a forest on your vacation. Your going the same speed, but one is much more relaxing than the other because anger feeds into itself when you're cursing at the traffic. Point being, relaxing and enjoying your surroundings may not get you there faster, but neither will getting worked up, and nobody ever got a heart attack from relaxing too hard.
so...relax.
Vorpaks wrote:
I do understand the enough is enough. The tone of my last post on the Corr forum had a harshness to it that I have been regretting ever since. When I hit submit I felt justified in my frustration, but if the result is negative - hurt feelings and the drying up of willing communication - was it really justified? Definitely not. It doesn't matter if enough is enough.
Speaking strictly for myself: overwhelming negativity on a forum has one sure fire result. it drives away the people who go there to share info and have fun. That is why I personally never go to the Jedi, BH, or CH forums, even though I have been a CH since launch. Way back when in the "CH nerf" I got sick of the nastiness on that forum and have never really gone back to see if it lifted. If I hadn't had the bad judgement to become a Corr I probably would have left the Ranger forum about a month ago. It was wicked bad for a while, and when I have to force myself to log-in/sign-on then it is time for me to go do something else.
I am glad now that I didn't, because the forums have recovered quite a bit and I am having fun.
EXCELLENT points Paks. EXCELLENT. Very nice *mom* voice too. 
How's the weather in Massachusetts? it's WICKED HOT here right now in Chicago... I couldn't help but crack up at you saying the forums here were "wicked bad". Took me right back to growing up outside Worcester and all the great little sayings and WAYS of saying things we Bay Staters have... 
One can't argue with success:
BH Forums...whine, complain, flame = DEV ATTENTION
Jedi Forums...whine, complain, flame = DEV ATTENTION
Ranger Forum...great place to hang out, personable people, sharing of ideas... = DEV SHAFT
Haven't you guys ever heard that Nice Guys Finish Last. That should be the battle call of the Ranger Forum.
Goldear wrote:
We should be calm and polite. Not ask questions. Not put forth suggestions. Just take our dinner and shut up. I'm sorry, in two years that mode hasn't worked?
SpecForceRanger wrote:
One can't argue with success:
BH Forums...whine, complain, flame = DEV ATTENTION
Jedi Forums...whine, complain, flame = DEV ATTENTION
Phenix1050 wrote:
The devs ignore whinning and flames, like Rodians ignore proper table manners.
=======================conversly...being polite has gotten us nowhere either.
They have only fixed the faults on Ranger Prof. when it has absolutly been unavoidable. Game breaking bugs.
Now they've fixed us good...we are arguing and fightng amongst ourselves.
Message Edited by Goldear on 07-19-2005 10:58 AM