Ranger Archive

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Squidwalker wrote:

*SNIP*

Dope, Calc you snuck in there. As far ar rancher and zoologist question, I say rancher. But then I ask you, what does the ranger more represent, the rancher or the zoologist?

More represent? We are a hybrid profession of those (and other) professions...I know, cop out!

Hmm you're a tough cookie, you and Nemo.

Message Edited by Squidwalker on 06-10-2004 02:45 PM

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Darn..you got me...I was going to say that zoologists had a greater understanding of creatures, BUT I know a lot of ranchers who know plenty about the animals they raise. I suppose the zoologist knows about more animals than a rancher. I would argue that becuase a zoologist knows alot about animals does not mean that they can ride them easily . I had to talk in a bit of a circle, but I got back to the point I wanted to make.

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IMHO

Zoologist = Bio Engineer, CH would be the "in the field" zoologist (I know they are much more than this, but they fit the closest)

Rancher (Cowboy) = Ranger or CH

So why not go for the skill for BOTH Ranger and CH???? Seem logical to me, and manny skills (i.e using stims, or ranged defence) are shared by multiple professions

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Squidwalker wrote:

Calc? Any input? Ideas?

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I like the idea, and you guys are fleshing out the implementaion rather nicely, BUT...I am still not sure why Rangers are qualified for this skill.

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Rangers are the supreme masters of nature, correct? Thus riding Mounts would be second nature to them. I am NOT in favor of taking taming or Mount abilities away from CH tho.

I believe giving Rangers Combat abilities WHILE mounted could be an awesome plus for the class. Mounts slow down due to combat IF you fire from a Mount. IF you Peace it will speed up. They obviously can allocate certain speeds on mounts for certain actions, Attack, specials, traps, areatrack, mask scent. Thus a Ranger would be the Mounted Cavalry of the GCW as others proposed.

As to the "Justification" the simple answer is, "Why Not?"

It would be a VERY Minor adjustment to Mounts and add a simple few skills to one of our various USELESS trees such as Wayfaring or Fronteriing and MAYBE it would be something exciting and fun for all. Would bring Rangers into the GCW in a unique way.

I am all for it.

Allowing PVP to dismount Rangers would balance it out. Heck, I have been dismounted from a landspeeder at the Tusken Fort. ALL of the mechanics for this is in the game already. All we are asking is to have it implemented.

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Rooks wrote:

As for comparisions in the classes that deserve this.

In RL I was in the Army and drove a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, a 26 ton mini-tank basically.

I knew basic maintance and daily maintance, but I was NOT a mechanic in ANY way.

As for Mounted Combat, think of the Ranger as A Tank Driver and the Creature Handler as the mechanic.

We would use our Terrain Navigation with mounted Combat. Our creature knowledge would be useful to justify our knowledge of mounted combat, we know which animal is fastest, how to feed it properly to keep it in good health and so on.

Other than Combat, Ranger/Scout is the only classes that even have non-combat skills to use while mounted. Except for Tame as a CH, no other class needs to dismount to do anything.

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Nice analogy. Also guys, think of, well not so modern, but say US Army cavalry back in the early 20th century. Remember the 7th cavalry? They were considered the best mounted cavalry in the US Army, period They were left at the US/Mexico border for years, and all through WWI. Why? Because they were the best there was at mounted combat, and riding in the rough terrian, mountains, deserts, washes rocky outcrops that that region of the country had. They were the best at riding horses, and fighting on horses. I'm sure they knew how to take care of their horses, what was good and bad for them, what they could do and not do. But I doubt they could take a wild stallion from the wilds, and saddle train it. I doubt they could do full vetenary services to an injured horse of theirs. I'm sure they had Vets on staff, but I doubt the vet was a combatant, just like their medical doctor wasn't. They probably had many of the same traits, skills and knowledge a rancher would have. They knew how to survive out in the hills and desert, how to take care of their horses out there, and how to fight on the horse.

This is what mounted cavalry is about, and where it comes from. The 7th cavalry eventually gave up the horse to the helicoptor in Vientnam, and they were the first large scale troops to be brought to the front line, or even behind enemy lines. By helicoptor. The movie with Mel Gibson, the "first" engagment of Vietnam, was the 7th cavalry.

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Squidwalker wrote:

Ahhh haaaa, I'm persuading you guys now. Mwuahaha, I'll take that inch.

Now I don't know how many ranger/rifleman out there actually utilize the crawling TN. I know I don't ever utilize it, and so for me its a waiste. Unless they give us the full +100 TN for mounts? (hehehe come on I had to) Otherwise the extra 50 points of TN in ranger is waisted for me.

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rather nicely, BUT...I am still not sure why Rangers are qualified for this skill.

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This only about halfway convinces me. Who can (usually) ride horses better? A zoologist who works in a labora Rancher who rides horses everyday?Who would you think would be more agile in the saddle?

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Nemo0 wrote:

... We can argue for the mobility portion of this (it fits with our profession because it increases our mobility in combat) but the handling portion is a stretch. Personally, I'd be happy getting a "travel mode" skill that lets us move a lot more quickly but would either prevent us from attacking or have very detrimental effects when fighting (like -200 accuracy or no special moves). We could get mount like speeds but we wouldn't fight well with them. Turning off the skill would give us back normal speed but let us fight properly. It could possibly automatically be turned off in combat but it definately would need to have a cooldown timer (so you can't use it to get range, start shooting a bit, and then get range again). This sort of skill seems more in line with what we already have than mounted combat does (although it's likely to be more work to implement)....

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this is exactly my point... the power we would gain from this: longer, faster movement while remaining able to attack, is something we agree a ranger should have... the trouble is, it will be difficult to implement in a standard way (improving burst run or movement speed) due to the kiting issues and the trouble of adding new countermeasuers... i think giving us the ability to do this on mounts is a viable alternative, even if it doesn't make "perfect" sense that rangers (creature hunters or outdoorsman) should get this...

if it is simply a decision of who gets this: CHs or rangers... i have to go with rangers... purelylookingat a balance of power: CHs' pets can be powerful fighting machines in their own right, they spend 106 skill points to be able to control CL 70 creatures, leaving with them 144 to spend in combat professions (if they wished)... rangers spend 140 skill points, and in this system would be granted mounted fighting, leaving them with 110 to spend in combat, CH, or combat/CH... if CHs had mounted fighitng as well as the ability to control CL 70 creatures, they could still master combat professions and be incredibly powerful (probably unbalancingly powerful)... if rangers get mounted fighting, they have to choose between better combat skills or having a better mount...

also, i am a rancher... i grew up working on a ranch, teaching people how to work with horses... i have ridden in rodeos, and just a few years ago trained a mustang (unfortunately i was not good enough to teach the /transfer command... at least she lets other people pet her now though)... i think this makes me a better rider than most folks who come along and hop in the saddle, but at the same time - i can't ride for days on end exploring, patrolling, fighting, or whatever else the calvary does... that takes conditioning, practice, and survival abilities - things that belong to a ranger... working with animals takes patience, willpower, and understanding - i see these things belonging to the CH....

Message Edited by Kiryoku on 06-10-2004 09:33 PM

Message Edited by Kiryoku on 06-10-2004 09:34 PM

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buzzlo wrote:

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rather nicely, BUT...I am still not sure why Rangers are qualified for this skill.

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This only about halfway convinces me. Who can (usually) ride horses better? A zoologist who works in a labora Rancher who rides horses everyday?Who would you think would be more agile in the saddle?

Ok tag......

Maybe the answer does not lie in giving the RANGER alot of CH benifit, but a little. I couldnt find the thread but someone had brought up the COMPANION IDEA!!

1) Give us a way to befriend an animal to raise as a companion. Dont call it TAMING!

2) Let us ride on certain creatures.....mount them for ourselfs.

3) These "COMPANIONS" Would not be transferable!!!They are our friends once we dont need them we release them.

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i could see that working, but i think that rangers should "mount" them so much as just hop on and ride em as is. Also have it be like befriend and itll be temorary, wont show in ur datapad or nothing, theyll just listen to you.

It would be like running up to a wild Bol and using the befriend thing, if its successful then u can hop on and ride em and once you get off u cantell it to go and itll run off.

anyway thats how i would do it.

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Squidwalker wrote:

Calc? Any input? Ideas?

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I like the idea, and you guys are fleshing out the implementaion rather nicely, BUT...I am still not sure why Rangers are qualified for this skill.

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Once answer, 3 skills sum up why.

1. Creatures Knowledge(a deep understanding of animals, their habitats, eating, sleeping, hunting, foraging, surviving, anatomy, methods, strengths, weakneses. All this sums up that we have the deepest most uderstanding of animals then any other profession in the game. Ranger gains the highest creature knowledge of any profession. Taming is done by CH, and we still have to buy a tamed creature from a CH. Any player can "handle to ride" a mountable creature. But the ranger understands the animals, their needs, wants, desires, moods, diet, travel speeds and best terrain for them to travel on.)

2. Terrain Negotiation(With number 1, and this skill combined we are the best(and highest skill mod) at traversing the wilds, and its many different terrians on many different planets. We understand terrain, how it effects you, its dangers, its pitfalls, it advantages, disadvantages, how we can utilize it in our favor. We know what will slow us down the most, and cause us problems, and what won't. We know that something with longer legs, or 4 legs, or stronger legs, or larger feet, might traverse the terrain better then us. So you combine this knowledge with number 1 above, and now we know what animals are best suited to what terrain, environments, creatures being hunted, speed, strengths, weaknesses, etc. This might lead to use "maybe" gaining +1 or +2 creature storage, just for the fact we might have different pets for different terrains and environments/planets. Remember, you wouldn't take a dewback to Hoth, and you wound't take a TaunTaun to Tatooine.

3. Survival.(So now we have the highest skill mod of surviving in the wilderness. What does this mean? It means we are fully adept at surviving in "any" environment, planet, terrain that we encounter. We know what to expect on a planet, as far as animals, both prey and predetor, natural foods, tempetures, terrains, weather, dangers, perks, everything the planet/environment has to offer, good or bad. And we know how to live and survive here better then anyone else. We know to avoid the quick sand, the sarlac, the tarpits. We know to head to the plains of corelia for some game to hunt, and berries to harvest. We know the jungles of Yavin are dangerous and full of predetors, what they are able to do, how they will hunt us, how they travel, and what to do to "survive" that kind of environment. So now you add numbers 1 and 2 to this knowledge, and you have all you need to travel, live, and hunt successfully on any planet in any environment, with speed and efficiency. More then any other profession in the game.

We know what animal mounts will help us in what evirconments, hunting what animals, or to maybe not use a mount at all and better to stay on foot and use total stealth.

How's that for justification?

Message Edited by Squidwalker on 06-10-2004 12:46 PM

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Squidwalker wrote:

Calc? Any input? Ideas?

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I like the idea, and you guys are fleshing out the implementaion rather nicely, BUT...I am still not sure why Rangers are qualified for this skill.

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Rooks wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Squidwalker wrote:

Calc? Any input? Ideas?

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I like the idea, and you guys are fleshing out the implementaion rather nicely, BUT...I am still not sure why Rangers are qualified for this skill.

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Rangers are the supreme masters of nature, correct? Thus riding Mounts would be second nature to them. I am NOT in favor of taking taming or Mount abilities away from CH tho.

I am not sure what you base the yellow sentence on. I am a geologist so I should be able to climb any mountain? That doesn't hold water...

I believe giving Rangers Combat abilities WHILE mounted could be an awesome plus for the class. Mounts slow down due to combat IF you fire from a Mount. IF you Peace it will speed up. They obviously can allocate certain speeds on mounts for certain actions, Attack, specials, traps, areatrack, mask scent. Thus a Ranger would be the Mounted Cavalry of the GCW as others proposed.

As to the "Justification" the simple answer is, "Why Not?"

That is a valid answer, I suppose, but the devs probably won't go for it .

It would be a VERY Minor adjustment to Mounts and add a simple few skills to one of our various USELESS trees such as Wayfaring or Fronteriing and MAYBE it would be something exciting and fun for all. Would bring Rangers into the GCW in a unique way.

I am all for it.

Allowing PVP to dismount Rangers would balance it out. Heck, I have been dismounted from a landspeeder at the Tusken Fort. ALL of the mechanics for this is in the game already. All we are asking is to have it implemented.

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Nemo0 wrote:

With our current skill set as far as creatures are concerned, I'd say that we are the hunter, not the rancher. We never try to take care of animals or grow them or anything similar. We go out in the field to study them and kill them. Sort of like a safari leader. There is nothing stopping us from knowing how to fight off a mount but I don't necessarily see why it would be part of our skill set. If it has to go to a single profession that is in the game, I would argue for CH (more like the rancher than us). But it doesn't have to go to any single profession.

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