Ranger Archive
Thread: SOE responds to CU revolt?
DaveG wrote:
KaiRaene wrote:
(Can anyone tell I figured out how to post from Firefox again? lol)
Nope! How'd you do it?(BTW I recconmend the radial menu plug-in !)
Dave, go into "My Profile" and select "preferences" and then uncheck "Use WYSIWYG Message Editor".
I think they added that in recently and it's checked by default.
As you'll have seen I've asked Owen the same question.
So far, all I can think of are the cybernetic implants. I say this because all else we get in ROTW is a new planet which obviously needs no new combat system, it's just a planet, and JTL additions, which are again, nothing to do with the ground combat system. So if cybernetics are the only thing, then this is an awful lot of mess for something which sums up to skill tapes with artwork. Talking of skill tapes, we had those in the old system, so we don't even need the combat revamp (no, it isn't an upgrade) for those.
DaveG wrote:
As you'll have seen I've asked Owen the same question.
So far, all I can think of are the cybernetic implants. I say this because all else we get in ROTW is a new planet which obviously needs no new combat system, it's just a planet, and JTL additions, which are again, nothing to do with the ground combat system. So if cybernetics are the only thing, then this is an awful lot of mess for something which sums up to skill tapes with artwork. Talking of skill tapes, we had those in the old system, so we don't even need the combat revamp (no, it isn't an upgrade) for those.
Personally, after seeing the "artwork" for the cybernetics, I'm not going to be getting any. I don't care what the possible bonus to combat is, I wouldn't be able to stand looking at my toon with those awful things on it.
And I'm really not that happy that the cybernetics are going to all be installed by NPCs and not players.
SiqoaWrote:
"Could someone please explain to me exactly why they needed this new system to do new content? Just because ROTW was written after the cu or at the same time, why was this the only way possible?"
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 05-05-2005 11:37 AM
Putting all the new creatures into the new combat system is a massive undertaking. As you can see they are only now balancing some of the higher adventure planets on live. Once they started creating Kash based on this new system there was probably no going back. Maybe this was a mistake sice the CU is still such a rough version but it is what it is. And we choose to play it or not play it depending on whether it is enjoyable. I have some friends who have taken a break until things are more polished, or until there is a Ranger revamp, or etc. /shrug
Like my husband said to me when I was on a rampage in the middle of alpha - if its not fun just don't play. No one is forcing you to. If I emember correctly I think I growled and stomped my feet at him.
It was true, I hated it, but what can you do?Message Edited by Vorpaks on 05-05-2005 07:11 AM
Owen-Lars wrote:
SiqoaWrote:
"Could someone please explain to me exactly why they needed this new system to do new content? Just because ROTW was written after the cu or at the same time, why was this the only way possible?"
The interactions between the classes where not there pre-CU now they are so dungeons and quests will be and have been orientated around this stregnth. The old system could not be balanced to the same degree this system can be so its easier to make content balanced to provided either a fast/slow/easy/tough experience. The new system is far more balanced so quests can be made that provide a challange for everyone and not just the few gimped classes.
Overall though the new system can be tweaked far more easily and content added to provide a specific experience and this makes it so much easier to add.
On cybernetics, remember that you cant wear armour on that section when using them so you offset some combat effectiveness for protection and on some cybernetics even mods.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 05-05-2005 11:37 AM
Still don't see it. In what way do you mean interaction? In the old system we had many ways of "tanking and nuking". Themain unbalance of the old system was the buffs and armour, and they would have been a no-brainer to balance. The new system is far more over-complicated to balance because of the combat level system. So I fail to see how the new system is easier to balance, and if it was that easy how come they've messed it up so badly?
In the old system the combat professions (despite broken specials which needed fixing, not replacing) were very distinct, but now in the system, everything is homogenised. Think about it, take for example a rifleman/commando. The rifleman has very prescise specials available, knee shot, head shot, etc. However, those specials are somehow achievable with a rocket launcher! So to restate, we can take precise direct point hit specials, and perform them with a rocket propelled explosive. Don't you see how messed up that is?
DaveG Wrote:
"The new system is far more over-complicated to balance because of the combat level system. So I fail to see how the new system is easier to balance, and if it was that easy how come they've messed it up so badly?"
I did not mean to sound like another disgruntled customer and I apologize if it sounded that way. I simply do not understand and I feel that vague answers don't help me to understand.
I do, however,understand the highlighted part.
He cannot tell you that it is still NDA. Be careful of asking detailed questions even at this late date - we don't want to see a purple Owen.
Putting all the new creatures into the new combat system is a massive undertaking. As you can see they are only now balancing some of the higher adventure planets on live. Once they started creating Kash based on this new system there was probably no going back. Maybe this was a mistake sice the CU is still such a rough version but it is what it is. And we choose to play it or not play it depending on whether it is enjoyable. I have some friends who have taken a break until things are more polished, or until there is a Ranger revamp, or etc. /shrug
Like my husband said to me when I was on a rampage in the middle of alpha - if its not fun just don't play. No one is forcing you to. If I emember correctly I think I growled and stomped my feet at him. It was true, I hated it, but what can you do?
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 05-05-200507:11 AM
Ranger/Creature Handler/Master 'Caster
-I support ATK play
Owen-Lars wrote:
No it isnt. Putting critters in levels means you can attach certain damage ranges to a wide range of creatures and npcs whereas before you had to adjust each mob/npc individually. Now it can be done on a wide scale meaning the balancing aspects of mob vs player can be tweaked much more easily.
Owen-Lars wrote:
As for why they messed it up and the game isnt balanced/fixed yet? Well it isnt rocket science mate, they ran out of time or more appropriatly, lucas forced SOE to push the game to live.
Owen-Lars wrote:
The interactions are the clearly defined roles now but more importantly the ham and combat system changes allowed groups to work together much more efficiently. Pushing healers out into the field, making clearly defined templates for specific functions within the group all are more clearly defined now and means you can create quests and dungeons taking those interactions into account.
The interactions were still there in the old system but to a much lesserdegree but obviously the devs felt that in order to compete in the mmo market they needed a good and solid combat system. IMO the old system sucked so bad.
It's not that the old system had weaker interactions, I can see why you might think of it that way,but the old system was much more freestyle, which means the interactions weren't as obvious, there were a lot of different and creative ways to get something done. Now, everyone is in confined and uniform roles, not many different professions are able to switch roles to adapt to a changing situation (if your tanks die, who steps up to taketheir place now?). Healers didn't need to be pushed out into the field either, more often than not, a doctor came along for "dungeon" runs anyway. This inflexibility of people not being able to change and adapt to different roles means you're limited if you can't get "the perfect" group together, and the nerfed group sizes have also reduced the scope for bringing reinforcements if one of your task-specific people get killed.
DaveG wrote:
In the old system the combat professions (despite broken specials which needed fixing, not replacing) were very distinct, but now in the system, everything is homogenised. Think about it, take for example a rifleman/commando. The rifleman has very prescise specials available, knee shot, head shot, etc. However, those specials are somehow achievable with a rocket launcher! So to restate, we can take precise direct point hit specials, and perform them with a rocket propelled explosive. Don't you see how messed up that is?
QFA.
Message Edited by DaveG on 05-05-200501:38 PM
Message Edited by DaveG on 05-05-2005 01:38 PM
Your last line kind of summed how im playing at the moment. I think we can all accept major bugs and issues are present but i cant honestly see past those and have full confidense they will be worked out. At present though im playing more than ever and like you highlighted, logging in, grabbing a friend or two and heading off on an adventure is a possibility now.
Without stepping outside the bounds of the NDA i can say it only gets better on Kashyyyk, im sure you will love it Drak