Ranger Archive
Thread: Cover your eye/ears.....
Rancorrider4
Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:40 pm
#14
VeriBeri wrote:
Congrats on a job well done =)
Glad to see that some of us take their development responsibilities more seriously than the SOE devs
ROFL!!!!
darmokVtS
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:16 am
#15
Geez, that above sounds like some 'bh-defense' hehe 
.
But actually this should be seen on a larger scale. As much as I want "Ranger" to improve, I can understand the devs very much doing other things first.
If I would have to set priorities developing this game this would have been (aside from the dev work on the expansion):
1. Combat Rebalance and combat-*fix* (badly needed for the health of this game both PvP and PvE wise, the constant
soloing is not a good environment for a MMO, also the mostly broken combatprofs need fixing real bad
2. Revamp/fix of the 'high profile' professions in "Star Wars", namely "Jedi", Bountyhunter, Smuggler.
(yes I know jedi have no place in this timeline, but again I understand the reasons from an economical pov)
3. GCW revamp (PvP *and* PvE wise this game just doesn't feel like starwars, a massive overhaul of the 'GCW' including
PvP and PvE can help here if done right).
4. New "content" in terms of dungeons etc.
5. fixes and revamps to profs that are not important marketingwise and aren't overly important to the overall game
(yes, this includes us)
It might be a shame, but being a realist I don't see any dev attention coming for us before 2005 and probably not even early 2005. Whining doesn't help there I'm afraid.
.But actually this should be seen on a larger scale. As much as I want "Ranger" to improve, I can understand the devs very much doing other things first.
If I would have to set priorities developing this game this would have been (aside from the dev work on the expansion):
1. Combat Rebalance and combat-*fix* (badly needed for the health of this game both PvP and PvE wise, the constant
soloing is not a good environment for a MMO, also the mostly broken combatprofs need fixing real bad
2. Revamp/fix of the 'high profile' professions in "Star Wars", namely "Jedi", Bountyhunter, Smuggler.
(yes I know jedi have no place in this timeline, but again I understand the reasons from an economical pov)
3. GCW revamp (PvP *and* PvE wise this game just doesn't feel like starwars, a massive overhaul of the 'GCW' including
PvP and PvE can help here if done right).
4. New "content" in terms of dungeons etc.
5. fixes and revamps to profs that are not important marketingwise and aren't overly important to the overall game
(yes, this includes us)
It might be a shame, but being a realist I don't see any dev attention coming for us before 2005 and probably not even early 2005. Whining doesn't help there I'm afraid.
VeriBeri
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:04 am
#16
Ok, a few observations:
While I agree that the devs need to prioritize, one of the problems with SOE seems to be underinvestment. They simply dont have the dev resources:
i. to have at least one major expansion in development all the time (a must to keep the game competitive),
ii. to have new content added (ditto)
iii. to redo vast swathes of the game because they were poorly thought out in the first place (eg jedi, smuggler, ranger, etc)
iv. to implement smaller fixes for all of the professions/game subsystems at the same time.
This is a fact that we are having to live with every day.
In other words, I see the problem as incorrect budgeting by SOE/Lucasart, not as a fact of life. They should invest more, knowing they will get their return in time in form of less churning and larger user base.
I also disagree with the view that a MMOG should be designed to force plp to do things in groups. Ideally it should offer a choice. For example, I find chatting with groupies enjoyable, but coordinating to do group hunts unrewarding if done on a regular basis. Similarly, group hunts with strangers is more likely to end up in frustration than new found friendships.
Most high level mobs/dungeons should be doable by either groups of mediocre players, or by exceptional soloists willing to invest the skill points, resources and time to do them solo.
While I agree that the devs need to prioritize, one of the problems with SOE seems to be underinvestment. They simply dont have the dev resources:
i. to have at least one major expansion in development all the time (a must to keep the game competitive),
ii. to have new content added (ditto)
iii. to redo vast swathes of the game because they were poorly thought out in the first place (eg jedi, smuggler, ranger, etc)
iv. to implement smaller fixes for all of the professions/game subsystems at the same time.
This is a fact that we are having to live with every day.
In other words, I see the problem as incorrect budgeting by SOE/Lucasart, not as a fact of life. They should invest more, knowing they will get their return in time in form of less churning and larger user base.
I also disagree with the view that a MMOG should be designed to force plp to do things in groups. Ideally it should offer a choice. For example, I find chatting with groupies enjoyable, but coordinating to do group hunts unrewarding if done on a regular basis. Similarly, group hunts with strangers is more likely to end up in frustration than new found friendships.
Most high level mobs/dungeons should be doable by either groups of mediocre players, or by exceptional soloists willing to invest the skill points, resources and time to do them solo.
lootranger
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:06 am
#17
darmok
rancor wrote this, "We invest 140 skill points for WHAT exactly. Camps that don't do what the dev written player manual that came with the box say they will do. Traps that don't work. Area track that works sporadically and camo that works ALMOST as well as the Master Scout mask scent. I won't even go into the harvesting rates."so you made some points to prove him wrong. what he said about camps is right on. they are nowhere near what they are described as. he mentioned traps and you said useless and not working arent the same things. last i checked we got 2 traps. the highest one causes a dizzy effect. it has been quoted from people who are higher on then totem pole than all of us that dizzy has absolutely no affect on creatures. i agree with you that makes that trap extremely useless, becasue it is broken. how you can argue it isnt is beyond me. on area track yeah ive had a few problems but not that bad. could be better but im happy with it. camo doesnt work how it should. you cant tell me that its fine when a 100 ham kreetle can break it when you are a master ranger (elite profession). say you get lucky and you apply it in a city and the ticket collector doesnt break it. you are stuck with the same camo on when you get to another planet. with no way to take it off.
i appologize if i seem harsh. ive been on a tear lately while reading some other profs boards(bh and jedi). so ive been expressing my opinions there as well. im am upset for the same reasons rancor probably is. jedi are getting two publishes and bh's got a big ole kiss from the devs that took, oh a week to implement. there are so many profs out there that have alot of things broken that arent even getting acknowledged, but they go and work on two profs that were already pretty uber in the first place.
im also upset about other professions asking for our skills. and what do you know our one skill that works the best is what other profs(bh and jedi) are asking for. bh's need to get their own **edit** fixed first, instead of asking for ours. and i have no idea where the jedi that wants a "better form of ranger areatrack" got that idea from. but since that seems to be the sop, i want 2billion defenses to everything. i want a weapon that does 4k damage a hit that every creature is vulnerable to. i know we wont get that, and i can live with it. i love being a ranger. ever since i mastered ive always wore that tag. ive gone through 2 combat profs since ive mastered and i always wore my master ranger tab with pride.
darmokVtS
Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:29 am
#18
lootranger wrote:
the highest one causes a dizzy effect. it has been quoted from people who are higher on then totem pole than all of us that dizzy has absolutely no affect on creatures. i agree with you that makes that trap extremely useless, becasue it is broken.
Wrong. It's not broken, it applies the state dizzy on creatures as it is described. This state does not affect creatures tho, so it's useless but it does what is stated it will do.
lootranger wrote:
camo doesnt work how it should. you cant tell me that its fine when a 100 ham kreetle can break it when you are a master ranger (elite profession).
That's why I said 'no major bug'. The described problem is mildly annoying but far from a really severe problem in my eyes.
However, I never experienced this:
lootranger wrote:
say you get lucky and you apply it in a city and the ticket collector doesnt break it. you are stuck with the same camo on when you get to another planet. with no way to take it off.
Can't reproduce it instantly due to the lack of camo kits (it's probably the reason I didn't notice this bug, I very fast considered camo not worth using and just did put it on the 'mostly working but useless' list
).However, my point still stands. *We* can still do what our profession is obviously designed for, a bounty hunter cannot do what his prof is designed for without todays change.
And don't let me start on 'smugglers', "smuggling" doesn't even exist as of now
.
lootranger wrote:
bh's need to get their own **edit** fixed first, instead of asking for ours.
Doesn't have *anything* to do with the current changes to Bounty-hunters. Well a bit, we will have less bh's dabbling in ranger for areatrack.
And 'jedi' do not get 'two publishes'. One of the 'jedi' publishes is a publish addressing the "profession" 'jedi'. The upcoming is the long needed end to the gamedestroying holomadness.
Oh and, don't blame idiots that want a gazillion of skills for their profs on the devs as you seem to do with the comments about bh and jedi wanting an areatrack like ability. I see no sign that they will get it, that a single person asked for it doesn't mean anything.
lootranger wrote:
i want a weapon that does 4k damage a hit that every creature is vulnerable to.
Is Master Lightsaber/Master Ranger possible
? However, I am not even sure if jedi can deal such a damage with specials after the quite hefty nerf to their damageoutput with the recent revamp.Message Edited by darmokVtS on 07-06-2004 02:30 PM
Flenst
Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:47 am
#19
Congrats on your baby girl!
I agree totally that we need more of a voice, but I'm concerned about what I'm beginning to think is the "Professional Death Spiral" that I see occurring. To have more of a voice, and to get a fix faster, we need more Master Rangers. To get more Master Rangers, however, we'll need a fix. The only way out, as I see it, is to get one, just one, really good agenda item from the Outdoorsman piggybacked onto another publish, which might bring more people to the profession, so that we can then garner enough support to get a revamp.
Rancorrider4
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:39 am
#20
darmokVtS wrote:
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Traps that don't work.
useless and not working are two quite different things.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Area track that works sporadically
Areatrack works most of the time for me and many others, the moments I feel it to be 'broken' are actually very rare.
Again 'outside' things might make it not overly useful in many occasions, but not useful is *still* not 'broken'.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
At least their profession works!
Ok, and now we finally notice: You have *no* idea. Let's see, a (master) bounty hunters main 'job' is to hunt jedi as of current state of the game. However he usually cannot do so for several reasons.
Finding the mark with the bugged droids and the existing 'exploits' for jedi to prevent being trackable is a very, very problematic process already, when the BH finally found the mark he then can expect to have 99.9% of the fired shots blocked away by the jedi.
That's "working"? No, that's not working.
Unlike "us", we aren't *that* broken, we just lack a lot of "content" and suffer from some minor bugs. Our traps work as advertised (still useless but working as described), camo might be not worth the hassle but is not surrounded by some major bugs, areatrack *does* work besides the 'outside' issue of stuff on the other side of a server-boundary not showing up, the thing people tend to call 'trackinghole'). The only thing I can call really "broken" is the 'repells aggressive creatures" feature of our camps, a pretty minor part of our profession that I truly feel as broken.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
After seeing the Bounty Hunters of all professions get IMMEDIATE attention
They got immidiate attention because it was needed for the greater good of the game (keeping jedi in check is important for the overall "health" of the game, and if the 'keeping in check' is just keeping them from running duel tournaments in front of theed spaceport because they might end up on a terminal and a bh/melee hybrid can now come after them actually being able to scratch them). The situation right after the release of the last publish was ridiculous, making the jedi-hunting profession actually able to do their job is badly needed.
Oh and ask the guys over at the scoutboards, I guess they rejoice too that the bh no longer need to get wilderness xp etc, I guess they now get less people whining about that line
useless and not working are two quite different things.
Hmmm...six in one hand half dozen in the other. We get dizzy at the top trap, which has been stated by the developers DOES NOT WORK against creatures. Remember I asked "We invest 140 skill points for WHAT exactly". See if you can follow me here as it appears from your posting you are more concerned with Bounty Hunter's than with Ranger's.
camo might be not worth the hassle...
"We invest 140 Skill Points for WHAT exactly." When mask scent works just as well as camo and is more convenient to use this is a problem. I know for a fact that at least 4 Master Ranger's on my server won't bother with camo. It's not worth the effort (or SKILL POINTS) to bother with.
The only thing I can call really "broken" is the 'repells aggressive creatures" feature of our camps, a pretty minor part of our profession that I truly feel as broken.
Pretty minor? Camps are a major part of our profession and not repelling aggro creatures is the proverbial tip of the iceberg. What else do you use camps for then sir? Not for healing I bet. Not when a good medical droid does it just as well if not better. Not for calling vehicles or mounts. Tell me please...what exactly do you use camps for.
They got immidiate attention because it was needed for the greater good of the game (keeping jedi in check is important for the overall "health" of the game, and if the 'keeping in check' is just keeping them from running duel tournaments in front of theed spaceport because they might end up on a terminal and a bh/melee hybrid can now come after them actually being able to scratch them). The situation right after the release of the last publish was ridiculous, making the jedi-hunting profession actually able to do their job is badly needed.
Frankly...who cares? As I stated in the original post, how about the dev team implement for us what was originally PROMISED to us? The specific /track command, new traps, new camps, FIXING the camps as was told to us. Not everyone wants to be a Jedi sir. Nor does everyone want to hunt down and kill Jedi. As one of our long tenured Master Rangers and forum elders once said "Ranger is not just a profession, it's a lifestyle." We choose to be RANGERS.
I won't bother starting about how the Dev's dug themselves this hole with the BH's/Jedi's/holo's. The fact remains that they HAD fixes and content on the table for us and removed it for other things. I don't program but it seems to me that if you have these things on the table and ready to go for Ranger's it's not a big stretch to implement them.
You should take this to the BH Forum. They'd be excited to see the developers have an actual Ranger being played that feels everything is just fine with us. They can justify putting us off for another year.
EbeLightcloud
Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:15 am
#21
Oppma!! Congratulations!! I hope mama and the baby are doing great!!
I agree with you that its time for the Dev's to make good on what we as Rangers feel we not need so much as what we deserve and were promised way back in August of last year. I dont care to be the baddest girl in PvP, or PvE, I just want we have in place now to work as intended! Camps that work, Traps that work, Area Track, and Camo. I dont think this is to much to ask. I mean hell, all the stuff is already in place. Please Dev's just fix what we have and I'll be one happy Rangerette
Ebe
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:35 am
#22
It just dawned on me that if you have to to make a mini-Oppma, you aren't playing the game nearly enough! Get your priorities straight!
Rancorrider4
Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:41 am
#23
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
It just dawned on me that if you have to to make a mini-Oppma, you aren't playing the game nearly enough! Get your priorities straight!
ROFL
Ixiss
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:59 am
#24
DarmokVtS wrote:
useless and not working are two quite different things.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
At least their profession works!
when the BH finally found the mark he then can expect to have 99.9% of the fired shots blocked away by the jedi.
Useless and not working are two quite different things. if a BH shoots at a jedi and he blocks 99.9% of his attacks, this is WORKING... its just useless. Sucks when someone throws your words back at you, doesnt it?
darmokVtS
Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:37 pm
#25
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Bounty Hunter's aren't Uber enough?
Master Bountyhunter as of 'old system' are far from "uber" PvP-wise especially against a prof that is after a certain progression near to unhittable by people wielding ranged weapons.
The change *is* reasonable, it might end up with jedi hunting melee-based templates but anything that keeps those jedis from showing off is fine by my book.
darmokVtS
Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:58 pm
#26
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Traps that don't work.
useless and not working are two quite different things.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Area track that works sporadically
Areatrack works most of the time for me and many others, the moments I feel it to be 'broken' are actually very rare.
Again 'outside' things might make it not overly useful in many occasions, but not useful is *still* not 'broken'.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
At least their profession works!
Ok, and now we finally notice: You have *no* idea. Let's see, a (master) bounty hunters main 'job' is to hunt jedi as of current state of the game. However he usually cannot do so for several reasons.
Finding the mark with the bugged droids and the existing 'exploits' for jedi to prevent being trackable is a very, very problematic process already, when the BH finally found the mark he then can expect to have 99.9% of the fired shots blocked away by the jedi.
That's "working"? No, that's not working.
Unlike "us", we aren't *that* broken, we just lack a lot of "content" and suffer from some minor bugs. Our traps work as advertised (still useless but working as described), camo might be not worth the hassle but is not surrounded by some major bugs, areatrack *does* work besides the 'outside' issue of stuff on the other side of a server-boundary not showing up, the thing people tend to call 'trackinghole'). The only thing I can call really "broken" is the 'repells aggressive creatures" feature of our camps, a pretty minor part of our profession that I truly feel as broken.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
After seeing the Bounty Hunters of all professions get IMMEDIATE attention
They got immidiate attention because it was needed for the greater good of the game (keeping jedi in check is important for the overall "health" of the game, and if the 'keeping in check' is just keeping them from running duel tournaments in front of theed spaceport because they might end up on a terminal and a bh/melee hybrid can now come after them actually being able to scratch them). The situation right after the release of the last publish was ridiculous, making the jedi-hunting profession actually able to do their job is badly needed.
Oh and ask the guys over at the scoutboards, I guess they rejoice too that the bh no longer need to get wilderness xp etc, I guess they now get less people whining about that line
.