Ranger Archive

Thread: For the sake of ALL professions, we need your help

FormlessOne
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:47 am
#14

Jedi should have this power - and Creature Handlers should have a variable chance to regain control. But, please, drop the "what if your weapon turned against you" hyperbole. It's not a "weapon", but a separate entity. I'm hoping that they'll be able to do the same thing to combat-capable droids, too.




SCpl. Phssthpok, Elder Pikeman
Col. Avery Farman, Elder Jedi
Former Guardians of the Old Republic members

Formless Realm Enterprises (FR)
Valcyn, Rori, Leoness (3572, -1404)
Business closed until SOE catches a clue!
Gelotri
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:49 am
#15



Fred_Skinner wrote:


FormlessOne wrote:
Jedi should have this power - and Creature Handlers should have a variable chance to regain control. But, please, drop the "what if your weapon turned against you" hyperbole. It's not a "weapon", but a separate entity. I'm hoping that they'll be able to do the same thing to combat-capable droids, too.


... and we should be able to use our traps on them, BUT WE CAN'T! ...Next...





I agree...we should be able to use our traps on both the Jedi and the pets....but having us cry in the CH forums will do you no good....look how far us asking for fixes has gotten us......A year, almost, later and still big donuts for fixes....nothing...

If you are just a creature handler with no other combat profession as a backup then you need to rethink your template.....When I was a Master Rnger/Master CH I was still able to have the pistols line and I think novice pistoleer with some ranged support thrown in....now, if they (Jedi) could take control of your pistol AND pet then we may have a serious issue....My 2 cents worth.



Gelotri - Shadowfire - Elder CL90 Jedi
EX Master Pikeman - EX Master Ranger - EX Master Tera Kasai - EX Master Marksman - EX Master Bounty Hunter - EX Master Creature Handler - EX Master Swords

***That which Does not kill us, only affects our HAx***
Tlk
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:08 pm
#16

You forgot to complain about jedi mind trick that can take away factional pets as well.


Also forgot to complain about warcry and panic shot that can permanently keep your pets out of the fight.


There will not be many force power users in the game as jedi, simply because they are not strong in jedi PvP. The force cost associated with animal attack is high, ifit takes any damage from the jedi, the power is over resulting in the pet being able to attack the jedi. While I understand that many different professions all feel the jedi take away something from them, how many creature handlers actually became creature handlers to hunt jedi? Jedi are suppose to be superior to an individual. Every developer said that. With that power comes risk, great risk (spamming animal attack would drain teh jedi force pool to teh point they become vulnerable, resulting in death which results in expereince loss).


If this is a balance issue, then it should be readdressed after the combat balance, till then, it is all speculation how it will play out.


Also, why is this an issue? When has anyone even cared about a pet attacking them? The first target is the master.
GoldMemberBria
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:14 pm
#17

Not true, Jedi's have already taken plenty from us... they are better hunters then we are! If you want to be a hunter, be a Jedi, not a ranger. If you visit Dathomir sometime on Bria, you'll see them out there slaying everything in sight. Enraged Rancors and the like all come tumbling down. And this was before the revamp.


I'm pretty amazed at the ranger take on such issues in recent weeks. We asked all other crafter forums to their support with our issues, then we don't reciprocate that? And then there was the debacle with the ranger quest idea where we basically told tailors "tough luck". Owch. I think a lot of this "ranger temperment", "ranger helpfulness" and all that is starting to become a myth. Or perhaps it's more of a "rural legend" if you will.





Flynn_Nomad wrote:

What could a jedi do to a Ranger?


Take away a Rangers rescue?


Really, what could a Jedi take from a Ranger, they don't HAVE ANYTHING TO TAKE!










Vola Goce - Bounty Hunter/Commando/Hunter
"Doc" Holliday - Smuggler/Combat Medic


Owen-Lars
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:29 pm
#18

Hmm im not sure about you being the only class who get skills taken away from you by someone using another skill on you.



  • I mean my rifleman has all his abilities taken away when he is kd/dizzy from a tk. That is an ability they posses that takes away all a players combat effectiveness more or less.

  • As a ranger i connot harvest whilst blinded. This does not relate to pvp however it is still one of our best abilities (to harvest organics) and even wild creatures can do this to us.

Pets are there (as are droids) to fight along side their master no for their master. People may have different oppinions on whether pets should do the damage or the player should fight alongside the pets, however i hated it when swg was turned into pokemon wars as did most people. Pets were very powerful then and would sometimes be more powerfull than the player who controls them. This imo was wrong and needed fixing.


The point of this is that if you plan on taking on players such as jedi you shouldnt have a chance in hell of fighting one with ch alone, it is not a combat class its a suport class. This is also relevant to the 'taking away our weapon' point. All this should do is reduce your combat effectiveness, it will take one damage outlet (the pet) away from you but you should still have your other.


Maybe the skill needs some working, maybe to freeze the animal instead of turn it on their master, or require the ch to do something to 'clear' the creatures mind.


All in all you are not the only class that gets things taken away by other player's skillsand you do not have your main weapon taken away from you (if so you deserve to die against jedi end of story). All this skill does is reduce your combat effectivness, you should still beable to use your primary combat skills to great effect.







THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Seraph00X
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:34 pm
#19



GoldMemberBria wrote:

Not true, Jedi's have already taken plenty from us... they are better hunters then we are! If you want to be a hunter, be a Jedi, not a ranger. If you visit Dathomir sometime on Bria, you'll see them out there slaying everything in sight. Enraged Rancors and the like all come tumbling down. And this was before the revamp.

I'm pretty amazed at the ranger take on such issues in recent weeks. We asked all other crafter forums to their support with our issues, then we don't reciprocate that? And then there was the debacle with the ranger quest idea where we basically told tailors "tough luck". Owch. I think a lot of this "ranger temperment", "ranger helpfulness" and all that is starting to become a myth. Or perhaps it's more of a "rural legend" if you will.


Flynn_Nomad wrote:
What could a jedi do to a Ranger?
Take away a Rangers rescue?
Really, what could a Jedi take from a Ranger, they don't HAVE ANYTHING TO TAKE!







we asked crafters for something? when was that, and what was it about, because I don't remember seeing anything about it.

I did see the "ranger quest" thing, and it was one guys idea, and it basically made one set of clothes that weren't tailor made... I don't see how that ruins things for tailors. There are weapons and armor that can only be used by wookies but you don't hear me complaining about it.

Anyway, as far as the CH issue, while I am sorry their pets are now vulnerable to a jedi ability, I don't see where "this can happen to you" really scares me at all. Simply because the fact that the only thing we really do well is harvest, and anybody with novice scout and a good droid can do that.

sorry to disagree, but that's how it goes.



cheers-
Serje Misre, Master Ranger, Kauri
Pas Ok'Lya, master schleper, Test Center

"Even though the Old Republic didn't work, I'd rather have a government run by beuraucrats than run by a dictator willing to destroy an entire planet in order to flush out a handful of dissidents."
Owen-Lars
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:35 pm
#20


It has been play tested. It works. Imagine your pistol suddenly turning in your hand and shooting you at point blank range. Is that fair, but that is the power they give over CH to the Jedi.


I still don't understand how they could do this.







Hmm this example isnt correct because your pet isnt your weapon as such, its a suport weapon if any.


It shouldnt be your main weapon, your weapon YOU are holding is your main weapon and should be used to take down the target, the pet simplyHELPS you do that job.



So it should read: "Imagine your suporting skill suddenly working against you reducing your combat effectivness"



Its a neat skill that takes away the suporting advantage a player has against another.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Tlk
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:40 pm
#21

Rangers are not "hunters", they are so much more. Jedi have never taken anything away from a ranger. A jedi can not throw a trap, has no inherent terrain negotiation, can not harvest, can not track, can not rescue, and can not amsk scent or camoflauge. Nothing a ranger does can be performed by a jedi. As for rancor valley, and being able to kill rancors, every single elite combat professionc an do that, and many much better than a typical jedi (swordsman? rifleman?).


I understand how many direct their anger or resentment towards jedi (I have no idea why jedi were changed before the combat balance), but if anything, jedi will depend on rangers. They will need the assistance of rangers to track rare mobs for trials. low level jedi can benefit from a ranger friend willing to camoflauge them. The biggest issue I had with ranger, was the loss of the camps and the lack of content (the wilderness shouldbe a much more dangerous environment where a ranger would be a requirement to assure safe terrain negotiation). That alone is what hurts rangers, not the jedi specials.


As for the creature handler issues, it isn't a power issue theyhave, it is a sentatment. While I can understand the attachment some may have to their pets, I doubt jedi will be using this skill ona routine basis when there are so many other alternatives that are more favorable to the jedi to deal with the pets.
Owen-Lars
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:24 pm
#22

I did see the "ranger quest" thing, and it was one guys idea, and it basically made one set of clothes that weren't tailor made... I don't see how that ruins things for tailors.








hehe it was only a brain storming session and after everyone got involved it was decided that clothing would be player made, but in a way that would still require both parties to work at it



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Owen-Lars
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:35 pm
#23

I'm pretty amazed at the ranger take on such issues in recent weeks. We asked all other crafter forums to their support with our issues, then we don't reciprocate that? And then there was the debacle with the ranger quest idea where we basically told tailors "tough luck". Owch. I think a lot of this "ranger temperment", "ranger helpfulness" and all that is starting to become a myth. Or perhaps it's more of a "rural legend" if you will.







Since when did we tell the tailors tough luck? Answer me that?


I was the person who started the Jakra Lan clothing idea and i was happy with the feedback it got. The people who bothered to stay with it and help i develope would have also seen how the ideas changed as time went on. You obviously wern't one of those people and instead of helping the idea develope you simply cast it into the shadows.


I see alot of posts that are simply brain storming sessions between people. Its people who take these ideas as from the developers mouths and see simple ideas as community desires (such as screw tailors, we hate tailors blah blah blah) that ruin the forum atmosphere. Instead of provide some possitive feedback and help develope ideas they would rather just say "i cant believe you are wanting this", "omg are you serious" and "i cant believe your attitudes towards this" and thats a shame.


There is a reason why these forums are open to every profession and that is to get feedback and ideas from each other on areas. I dont know what tailors want and what tailors attitudes are to certain things so that why all ideas are open to change and development. Its some people's knee-jerk reactions to things that ruin andthrow potentially good ideas into the bin.



Anyway enough of that




THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
GoldMemberBria
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:44 pm
#24






Seraph00X wrote:

we asked crafters for something? when was that, and what was it about, because I don't remember seeing anything about it.





http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=41089


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=doctor&message.id=43580&page=1



Vola Goce - Bounty Hunter/Commando/Hunter
"Doc" Holliday - Smuggler/Combat Medic


Seiryuu
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:50 pm
#25

Hmm this example isnt correct because your pet isnt your weapon as such, its a suport weapon if any.

It shouldnt be your main weapon, your weapon YOU are holding is your main weapon and should be used to take down the target, the pet simply HELPS you do that job.


So me being a CH/BE/Ranger have no place, ever, in PvP is what you are saying? Do you also believe that Ranger should be PvE only and have no place in PvP, ever?

I also find it silly to insist CH must be taken with another profession to be effective. Is there any other profession that requires taking other professions to accomplish what should be allowed on its own? How long have the Rangers been asking for some sort of innate combat abilities, yet here you are trying to deny this to someone else?



-----
Visit www.swgcreatures.com for all your creature needs.
Tell 'em Lantyssa sent you!

Math got you down? Need a tissue? Try my Chef and Tailor Tissue Calculators!

Looking for a special? Try this Excel spreadsheet on Special Abilities.
Rancorrider4
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:53 pm
#26






GoldMemberBria wrote:

Not true, Jedi's have already taken plenty from us... they are better hunters then we are! If you want to be a hunter, be a Jedi, not a ranger. If you visit Dathomir sometime on Bria, you'll see them out there slaying everything in sight. Enraged Rancors and the like all come tumbling down. And this was before the revamp.


I'm pretty amazed at the ranger take on such issues in recent weeks. We asked all other crafter forums to their support with our issues, then we don't reciprocate that? And then there was the debacle with the ranger quest idea where we basically told tailors "tough luck". Owch. I think a lot of this "ranger temperment", "ranger helpfulness" and all that is starting to become a myth. Or perhaps it's more of a "rural legend" if you will.





Flynn_Nomad wrote:

What could a jedi do to a Ranger?


Take away a Rangers rescue?


Really, what could a Jedi take from a Ranger, they don't HAVE ANYTHING TO TAKE!












Our temperment and helpfullness has not changed. Frankly I think it being called into question is baseless. All that is being said in this thread is that it doesn't affect us to the degree that it does CH. I do agree with you when you say that Jedi are better hunters than we. I have a screenie somewhere of a Jedi on our server literally covered in Faamba. He had killed so many Faamba you can barely make his name out in the pile of corpses. Which means he was killing them and harvesting them so fast we can still see the corpses.


Respectfully,





nppmaHamus

o Galactic Geographic Explorero

Master Mountain Climber


Page 2 of 3