Ranger Archive

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Well, Kimi, the number one concern I have seen here, is that Ranger's won't be able to solo after the CU. This concern has manifested itself in the 'how many hitpoints do we get' threads and the 'Nerf Ranger skill point cost threads.

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That's my worry. I'm already penalized as a Ranger for soloing, and now we're not part of the CU. On top of that, I'm a Merchant. ENOUGH PAIN ALREADY.

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KaiRaene wrote:
What I find ironic is that the majority of us have spearheaded the no buffs/no armor hunting style so not getting the extra health would seem a little odd considereing were used to fighting with alot less. But thats not the point really. With this change we dont get a chance to pvp at all.

As for me I dont mind being a bit of a catalyst for the Ranger bonfire. For me its simply the idea of being left out/ignored and getting zero dev response. I just want some closure. If we dont get it fine... I just want someone to respond. Just so I can have an opportunity to go grind some more rifleman and something else... who knows.

Message Edited by KaiRaene on 04-05-2005 03:06 AM

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I don't mind the health either tough... But what I do mind is the "reasoning behind" why the Ranger might not get the additional health increase. That is nothing lessthen the Ranger status as Combat class or not!

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
I think a lot of us have forgotten that the current combat system has been broken since launch. I know I had, in the beginning.

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If that's the case, then IMHO, it should never have been launched in the first place.

But my guess is that, it's the same as with the CU, some hot shot top manager decides it MUST go on....

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YOu have brought up another good point. The devs don't always have the final say on what/when/why/how things get changed. The have bosses, too .

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DesktopSaki wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Well, Kimi, the number one concern I have seen here, is that Ranger's won't be able to solo after the CU. This concern has manifested itself in the 'how many hitpoints do we get' threads and the 'Nerf Ranger skill point cost threads.

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That's my worry. I'm already penalized as a Ranger for soloing, and now we're not part of the CU. On top of that, I'm a Merchant. ENOUGH PAIN ALREADY.

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Lol....only you can be blamed for you profesion choice.

For me the issue is not really if a M. Ranger/M. elite combat profession will be a viable template after the CU. I know we will not, that is part of what the rewrap is suppose to fix.
My issue is that I have no confidence in the DEV's to fix Ranger for ranger's sake. I base that on what they did to the other profession left out of the CU.

The funny thin is that all it would take to quell all my worries would be for a dev to post here on this board and say, that they would not remove our profession, that we would not have our skill points reduced, and that we would be balanced with the other professions involved in combat. It would maybe take them 5 minutes to do so, yet they do not do that.

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Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
For me the issue is not really if a M. Ranger/M. elite combat profession will be a viable template after the CU. I know we will not, that is part of what the rewrap is suppose to fix.
My issue is that I have no confidence in the DEV's to fix Ranger for ranger's sake. I base that on what they did to the other profession left out of the CU.

The funny thin is that all it would take to quell all my worries would be for a dev to post here on this board and say, that they would not remove our profession, that we would not have our skill points reduced, and that we would be balanced with the other professions involved in combat. It would maybe take them 5 minutes to do so, yet they do not do that.

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Can I borrow your crytsal ball?

Calc, you're correct in that the system was/is broken and needs some fixing, but my biggest concern now is that the CU/R/B is breaking more than it's fixing. It's doing away with some disparities, to be sure, but I'm afraid it might create others.

Of course, we have no way of knowing how it will all turn out until the whole testing phase is over, but I'm certainly concerned. Here's what I posted in today's feedback thread (sorry for the length):

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• The new weapon certifications are nice, although I'm withholding final judgment until we get a chance to work on some Elite professions.


• For the most part, I really like the skill progression, and feel that the balance issues are going to work themselves out in this new system.


• I love the ability to choose my own auto-attack.


• I love that groups are more important, and that finding some manner of balance within the group is going to be crucial for certain missions/targets.


• I like that the con system actually means something now

And, the things that I don't like at this stage of beta testing:

• The Wookiee Bowcaster is now worthless. Please, please please please please have your weapons designer read this page:
  http://www.starwars.com/databank/technology/bowcaster/?id=eu


• Fighting and chatting at the same time is now next to impossible.


• The icons: You know, some artists spent a lot of time on these things, and the artwork for them is fantastic. That being said, they don't fit the game at all. It's not the fault of the artist; it's an error in judgment of whoever came up with the idea. A good try, to be sure, but they're not Star Wars.


• Speaking of "not Star Wars," the new swirly animations for healing and state effects definitely fall into the same category.


• So do the new sound effects. Please use the sound effects found in the films, and add some variety. All range weapons sound the same now. This is bad. Half the experience of Star Wars is the sound.


• Does it make sense to me that Ranger requires Master Scout first? It certainly does, even though it is the only remaining profession that requires such. We build upon all of the skills granted in the Scout tree. What doesn't make sense to me is that Ranger is not considered a combat profession in this upgrade (even though we get armor certification), and has seen no increase in skills. This game is based upon a player-based economy, with resources at the center of said economy. Granted, Scouts can harvest organic resources, too, but not as efficiently; and most people who are Scouts, yet not Rangers, are only Scouts as a pre-req for another profession. Notice I said "most"; not all. There will be exceptions, but this is an accurate general rule. By limiting the ability of Rangers to do their job (be the ultimate animal hunters, and supply resources for Armorsmiths and now BEs), you're going to create a situation whereby organic resources are even more precious and valuable than they are now, driving up the price, and throwing the entire economy out of whack. I'm not saying that organics are the keystone to the entire economy; but they are a resource, and resources are the keystone. Organic harvesting is one of the pieces of the puzzle that must fit into place before the whole system works as intended.

Finally, and this is perhaps the biggest beef I have with the system as it stands now at this point in the testing:

• The one thing I've always loved most about SWG, other than the Star Wars connection, is the fact that combat wasn't something that one had to commit to 100%. My wife is a Master Dancer/TK Master, and her one combat skill has always been enough to allow her to have a good time in any adventure our guild partakes in. Granted, she can't stand up to a melee stacker, but such is life; she can enjoy PvE content to its fullest extent, save the few MOBs in the game that are 100% Kinetic resist. Likewise, I am and always will be (as long as I play this game, that is) a Master Ranger, with an Elite combat skill to back that up. My biggest hope for this Combat Upgrade was that our lack of dual combat masteries would no longer hinder us in PvP. Sadly, it has done just the opposite. It has made it such that if one has any hope of competing in PvP, one needs dual combat mastery. This is forcing players into more specialization, and is creating a situation, like other MMORPGs, where one must be purely-this or a purely-that. Purely combat or purely non-combat. The inherent changes to the way HAMs work is mostly good; the one bad thing is that to get full HAM, one must dual master. Now, I can certainly see how someone who has Master Rifleman and Master TK should have the drop on me in a duel if I only have Master Rifleman, but let me explain how *I THINK* that person should have the advantage: it should be in the fact that he/she has more tactical decisions. If the situation arises whereby he/she would have the upper hand in battle by switching to the other profession, that's fine. But in this new system, I as a Master Rifleman am at an automatic disadvantage against a Master Rifleman/Master TK even if said opponent NEVER USES A TK SKILL! That opponent's increased HAM automatically ensures a victory, assuming we're both using equal strength T21s, with the same buffs, same armor, and using the same attacks.

Message Edited by WookieInLaw on 04-05-2005 11:15 AM

Message Edited by WookieInLaw on 04-05-2005 11:34 AM

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Can I borrow your crytsal ball?

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Well we know that all creatures will be re-balanced to fit the new combat system. We know that we will not be rebalanced to fit the new combat system. Thus we can conclude that we will not be balanced with the new combat system.

That leaved two options, over powered or underpowered. If it is the first we can be sure the devs will nerf us to not screw up the new system, thus bringing us back to the 2nd option of being underpowered.

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Tarnak_Archvold wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Can I borrow your crytsal ball?

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Well we know that all creatures will be re-balanced to fit the new combat system. We know that we will not be rebalanced to fit the new combat system. Thus we can conclude that we will not be balanced with the new combat system.

That leaved two options, over powered or underpowered. If it is the first we can be sure the devs will nerf us to not screw up the new system, thus bringing us back to the 2nd option of being underpowered.

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Ranger was never been considered in the old combat system, it was your combat prof that determined your effectiveness. The same will, unfortunately, be true under the CU. It's not like we used to be uber, then they took it away from us. There really is nothing, combat-wise, that is changing for us, that is not changing for everyone else.

Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 04-05-2005 10:52 AM

Angry does not equal rude,

I, like most rangers, are Livid about the perceived slight to rangers, however... I want to find a solution to the problem. If the solution is evident, yet there is resistance to the ideas, I want to find out why.

If the why is a good reason, then i will work within the mechanics to find another solution. Just because i am angry, doesnt mean that i will throw logic and reason out the window just to express my anger.

There are alternatives to fighting. I heard that somewhere, but i forgot where