Ranger Archive

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GoldMemberBria wrote:

Some recent ranger history:

People cheer the change, claiming that "ranger has been saved", then Owen, Calc, JB, and many others drop ranger anyway, then whine that rangers are not viable prior to the revamp.

Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 05-23-2005 10:19 AM

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WTH?!

You put evidence up before making any claims! Where is it? Hmmm? You just want to point and say "I'm better than you, because you complain and I don'tcomplain about other people complaining!"

Come on, you must have seen something that supports this claim of yours. Where's the link? Where are their posts that say they dropped Ranger? And for that matter, have you ever posted on these forums before?

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AgonThalia wrote:

Actually...

goldmember was one of the old school posters... back whenMinerva and NRaas was around.

I got a lot of great advice from goldmemberbria...

secondly, being a ranger is not a pre-requisite for sharing ideas...

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Then why did they post that little snip about Owen, JB and Calc dropping Ranger without so much as a quote? A link?

That's just a rediculous thing to say. People want one thing, and one thing only: for a harvesting droid to be useful in... harvesting. That's it. That's the whole story. And if the harvesting subsystems change, or the combat subsystems change, they expect it to... *gasp*... stay useful. Why is that so much to ask? And who exactly are you representing with this rant anyhow JB? Certainly not your community right?"

"And who was that unmasked man who said harvest droids suck??

1. Droids will not ever never ever count as part of a group for harvesting. Y'all - the ubiquitous y'all - made sure of that when the group nerf hit. People whined and snivled and got droids to not count as a group member for purposes of harvesting. As such, they can't use the group bonuses because they can't "see" the group bonuses, as they are "invisible" to the group bonuses much as they were "invisible" to the group harvesting nerf. The coding has been removed at "y'all's" request. Maybe this can be addressed during the revamp. I don't think it should be, as it is a result of the "masses" stupidity, but hey, the "y'all" can hope."

Then, GoldMemberBria wrote about the survival xp changes:

"Former master ranger, current ranger dabbler here.

I like the change a lot personally. To me there is absolutely nothing "ranger-like" about pulling out camp after camp and sitting in them while grinding more camps or worse doing it afk. Is that fun? The people that oppose this change seem to be the "old timers" whose opposition to it is on the basis that "I went through hell to get it, therefore others should too", and I just don't agree with that line of reasoning.

Camps are fairly useless. Why subject people to hours and hours and hours of sitting in them while afk? Seems to me that going out and hunting provides a lot more fun, benefitial "ranger-like" experience, so why would you begrudge someone of working their way through the ranger tree by doing that?

And for those worried about people grinding through the rest of the ranger boxes via grinding camps, you need not worry. I've verified that you get no scouting xp from crafting a camp."

About "who has dropped what in Ranger," GoldMemberBria wrote:

"Pre-CU: rifleman, creature handler, 0-0-4-0 ranger

Post-CU: master smuggler, 4-2-0-0 CM, 0-4-2-0 commando 2-0-2-0 scout.

I've found that even with hunting 2 my harvests are silly-huge, and if they ever fix the harvesting droid they'll be even bigger. The only things I miss about ranger are the camps to be honest. Tracking is no longer useful to me because hunting is now so tied to grouping and the mission terminals anyway that there is no need to use tracking. Also tracking now is woefully insuffecient because the info it gives you is useless. You no longer care about whether there is a rancor 100m south of you, what you care about is what *level* that rancor is.

As one who was real self-reliant pre-cu (no need of buffs, no need of a group, just head out and kill), I found that trying to get self-reliant post-cu was fairly unrewarding and futile, so I went the extreme opposite pole. I'm now 100% useless solo, but I'll make any group I'm with tons tons better
I've quite frankly been real amazed that there hasn't been more gnashing of teeth from rangers about the CU. The biggest blow to you isn't that you necessarily got nerfed, it's that there just isn't a need for you anymore at all on a more fundamental level. But from this thread now I understand why. It's because most of you have already given up on ranger and no longer care, lol."

All I'm saying is I smell a troll who has something personal against the correspondents, and it would seem that they are highly opinionated based on the comparison to what they do and what others do. "If you don't think my way, then you're wrong" is starting to look like this person's motivation for these threads.

I have placed my evidence for the statements I made. You want links? I'll post 'em if you ask me to.

You read things yet you still do not see. Do you really think I would fabricate something like that? The funny thing Bio is that Calc and Owen announced they had dropped ranger on their "live" toons in a thread that you yourself posted in. I guess in your haste to post you didn't even bother to read the thread you were contributing to. JB said that he is in the process of turning J3di and BH (two things that he's been very critical of in the past) and although he perhaps hasn't dropped ranger yet, he claims to be in the process of dropping said ranger skills as needed for his J3di toon. You can read all about that here.

Oh, and as far as little 'ole me, I've been a ranger since Fall of '03. I was an 0-0-4-0 ranger for a long time, then briefly mastered it (stayed master ranger for about a month), then dropped down to 0-4-4-0 for a very long time, and for now I dropped ranger completely post-CU (although I still have scouting skills, and remain a contract hunter). I'm very much a hunter at heart, so I'll be keeping a very close eye on the ranger re-vamp, and most likely returning to ranger when it happens. And yes, I've been a contributor to this forum (although infrequent) for around a year and a half now. When I have something to say, I say it

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BioEngine wrote:

WTH?!

You put evidence up before making any claims! Where is it? Hmmm? You just want to point and say "I'm better than you, because you complain and I don'tcomplain about other people complaining!"

Come on, you must have seen something that supports this claim of yours. Where's the link? Where are their posts that say they dropped Ranger? And for that matter, have you ever posted on these forums before?

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Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 05-23-2005 03:07 PM

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Owen-Lars wrote:

This is what gets to me when i hear the, ok anyone can use a lesser version comments:

Camo is unique to our profession, now this is going to change, we loose identity even further. How do you make a lesser version of camo without it actually not working at all? You make it useable and rangers get screwed because our camo no less of anincrease, you make our applied camo effective over the anyone applied kits and then the kits are useless because they are too weak.

Besides the fact rangers cannot get vendors and besides the fact that since when did we become a crafting/merchant profession this change is handing out my favourite skill (even with its bugs and issues) and its this i hate.

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I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that camo is unique to our profession. Before this patch, everybody was able to wear the camo kits, just like they will be able to after the patch. Before, the ranger had to craft the kit, then apply the kit...Now we have tocraft the kit, then either sell the kit or apply it just like before. The only thing that has changed is that we now have an extra source of income available, if wanted. The way I see it, this is a good thing.

Yes, some rangers don't want to be tied down into some kind of "merchant" or "crafter" role. To them, I simply say don't. Don't sell the camo kits to anybody. What exactly is it that you have lost? Unless you had some kind of strange business where you stood in the starport spamming to apply camo kits to people that walked by, you really haven't lost anything. Yes, it sucks that people can use our skills without taking the skill boxes, but again people have always been able to wear our camo kits. I guess I just don't understand why this has suddenly become a major problem now.

Is the fact that some non-combat crafter will be running aroundhis harvestors with a crate full ofcamo kits applied really going to ruin your enjoyment of the game? I fail to see how, since they have always been able to do that anyway since the game started - if they bothered to find a friendly ranger.

I'm also having trouble understanding the complaints of turning ranger into some kind of merchant profession, when the main role of our profession has always beento take jobs to gather and sell organicresources.

Anyway, unless they also changed the effectiveness of these camo kits in this patch as well - this will be a non issue again a week after the publish. I remember when I was first starting on Ranger. Only had a couple of skill boxes in, and went on a guild Rancor hunt. We had another Master Ranger along, and he was applying camo to the group. Every time we got close to the next lair, everybody's camo broke except for the Master Ranger. Once people realize howpoorly these kits work, nobody is going to want to buy or use them, and we are right back where we were.

Eavik:

Ive never had an issue with others being able to get the Camo buff, but IMO its the rangers job to apply the kits and should be a skill used by rangers to provide short term buffs to the groups they are in making them desirable to groups. Its not all we would need for making us attractive to groups but it definatly is a factor and something that could become very interesting if ever revamped. With this change camo isbasically no longer our skill, we are just the crafters and anyone can camo. The effectiveness of these kits have yet to be determined but i dont expect them to be too far off what we have. IMO we have lost a unique part to the profession and now only further enhanceskilla that other professions have (harvesting, trapping, TN, camping and now camo).

In order to make this profession engaging and attractive compared to other professions we need unique skills and abilitites that set us apart. Skills that make people say, "well i want this skill so ill go ranger", or "i want that role in group or in combat so ill go ranger", not "i want a little increase in this areas so ill invest in ranger to get it".

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Owen-Lars wrote:

Eavik:

Ive never had an issue with others being able to get the Camo buff, but IMO its the rangers job to apply the kits and should be a skill used by rangers to provide short term buffs to the groups they are in making them desirable to groups. Its not all we would need for making us attractive to groups but it definatly is a factor and something that could become very interesting if ever revamped. With this change camo isbasically no longer our skill, we are just the crafters and anyone can camo. The effectiveness of these kits have yet to be determined but i dont expect them to be too far off what we have. IMO we have lost a unique part to the profession and now only further enhanceskilla that other professions have (harvesting, trapping, TN, camping and now camo).

In order to make this profession engaging and attractive compared to other professions we need unique skills and abilitites that set us apart. Skills that make people say, "well i want this skill so ill go ranger", or "i want that role in group or in combat so ill go ranger", not "i want a little increase in this areas so ill invest in ranger to get it".

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Eavik, also consider the following:

- would you like to get a full entertainer/ artisan (elites too) in a group to go out hunting? NO. It would HURT the group.

- A ranger now find himself even MORE in the same boat. We have nothing IMPORTANT to add... (40% harvest bonus? A scout give 20^%, a nov. ranger 30%) and with the alreadyincreased base yield....

Combat wise we are USELESS. Defense wise we are USELESS.

Nobody wants to group with us except other rangers/scouts....

A lot of us expected to get into tell hell because of the 40% bonus... It did not happen.. Why? Read above... A combination of scout/nov ranger with elite combat skills can over time easily outharvest a Ranger.

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Owen-Lars wrote:

Eavik:

Ive never had an issue with others being able to get the Camo buff, but IMO its the rangers job to apply the kits and should be a skill used by rangers to provide short term buffs to the groups they are in making them desirable to groups. Its not all we would need for making us attractive to groups but it definatly is a factor and something that could become very interesting if ever revamped. With this change camo isbasically no longer our skill, we are just the crafters and anyone can camo. The effectiveness of these kits have yet to be determined but i dont expect them to be too far off what we have. IMO we have lost a unique part to the profession and now only further enhanceskilla that other professions have (harvesting, trapping, TN, camping and now camo).

In order to make this profession engaging and attractive compared to other professions we need unique skills and abilitites that set us apart. Skills that make people say, "well i want this skill so ill go ranger", or "i want that role in group or in combat so ill go ranger", not "i want a little increase in this areas so ill invest in ranger to get it".

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I have to agree with Owen. When all is said and done I think this the aspect of the new "camo for all" change that has the greatest impact on us as a profession. Over all, I think the change was good for the crafter, and if it get's them back out to their harvestors, then it was good for the game. I'm just sorry we were the ones to pay the price.

I DO NOT think this was the best way to go about it, but on the (very) bright side, given the support for Rangers this change has garnered us, and given what a pure "give away" of a skill from our profession this was to solve another profession's problem,I'm guessing that it will be a "big chip" on the table for Owen to horse trade with when the time comes fortheRanger Revamp.

The only one who has made it personal here is you Bio.

Why did I not post a link? The same reason you do not post links in each and every post you make. Because it is unneccesary. All you had to do was ask, rather than crying and stomping your feet like a child.

The only thing you've "proven" by dredging up some of my old posts (after first claiming that I never post here) is that I believe that:

a) hunters should gain some benefits to having a harvesting droid

b) It is more "ranger-like" to hunt then it is to afk-camp or grind camps via a crafting macro.

So guilty as charged. Yep, I do in fact believe those two things. I believe them strongly, but neither of them is important relative to some of the much more important things.

Others may disagree, that is fine. Correspondents can disagree with me too. That is also fine. What is not fine is childish namecalling and the "stalking" behavior which you are now exhibiting.

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BioEngine wrote:

All I'm saying is I smell a troll who has something personal against the correspondents, and it would seem that they are highly opinionated based on the comparison to what they do and what others do. "If you don't think my way, then you're wrong" is starting to look like this person's motivation for these threads.

I have placed my evidence for the statements I made. You want links? I'll post 'em if you ask me to.

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Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 05-23-2005 02:54 PM