Ranger Archive

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Serraphin wrote:

JB,

The mind behind the Ranger toon generally is not useless since we have all had to adapt to our limited profession but the profession itself in comparison to other professions is quite useless. Master Ranger + Master Combat is nothing more then a CL54 with a CL80 Health overlay. The traps that reduce defenses simply do not increase the damage enough to replace the DPS lost by having a Ranger in group. Rangers can not rez or heal unlike a Doc or CM providing combat support. Simply Rangers are a liability to a group when compared to a knowledgeable dual combat class. A pistoleer, fencer, CM, or carbineer make up for a Phec Dart and if the are dual combat classed they will simply out damage a Ranger or bring more to the party then a Ranger.

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Rangers are a liablity to a group when compared to a knowledgeable dual combat class. Ok, good point. What about a knowledgeable Ranger compared with that? I go hunting with the FTM/CM classes all the time. They do great damage, yea, but they get wounded, incapped, forget to heal because they think they are invincable. A smart Ranger knows he is not this, and by knowing that prevents it from happening. I have been many times the last man standing, even when grouped with dual combat and Jedi types. I am usually the one waiting around for the other to get back to the group, heal, or what not. And often times I am the one getting aggroed, because I know the range of my weapon and the damge it does.

A knowledgeable Master dual combat and a knowledgeable Master Ranger. Now thats a good arguement right there. Put my money on the Ranger.

About a week ago I started to give up Master Rifleman and go Squad Leader. Wasn't sure if I made the right choice until the other night. As Master Ranger/0434 SL, was in a group with 3 other CL 80 (dual combat) and 4 others lower than CL50. Well it seemed to work out the CL 80 missions got done first, and they decided to bail, leaving myself and the other 4 hanging in the breeze. A useless Ranger with 4 basically noobs. Well this basically useless Ranger/0434 SL/0030 Riflemanand 4 noobs finished outthe rest of the missions with only 1 of them being incapped twice. He was overzealous it seems. All they did was listen and learn and we got through it. I made 2 friends and new guild members.

So those of you saying we are useless, asking what we are smoking, complaining, or giving us pity...take it somewhere else. Maybe you were useless as a Ranger, but don't bring it in here.

It makes no difference in the profession, just how you use it.

Message Edited by Enoshima on 09-04-2005 05:00 PM

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Serraphin wrote:

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Iseult wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

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I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore they just aren't necessary and I can have just as much fun Rping a Ranger that actually does not have the Ranger profession.

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LOL - isn't it funny how these threads always break down to those of us who actually play our rangers and those of us who either have rangers but don't play them anymore (your loss) / those of us who haven't had any ranger skills since the CU.

Here's a novel idea: why don't you guys invest a little more time (and skillpoints) in the profession and then come here and post.

You say I'm a charity case - well, that's interesting because we've taken down the ackley, necrosis (too many times to count), hrracca glade (w/ 5 mins left), the corvette (yes, including the assasination mission) as least 4 times, etc..., and no one has ever said "ahh, let's invite Iseult just to be nice." I'm one of the primary damage dealers in our group, as I can hit for 1200+ on a mob after the jedis apply force armor break to it. 1200+ damage isn't charity.

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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I have had at least 1 Master Ranger since September 2003. Its never been a more useless profession then now.

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Well, the question isn't whether you have a master ranger - it's whether you play your master ranger. Do you play your master ranger? Oh wait - you've already stated above that you don't, and I quote, " I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore." OK, well, thanks for posting I suppose - how about you let those of us who actually still play our rangers talk about the relative usefullness of our profession for a change?

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Iseult wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

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Iseult wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

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I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore they just aren't necessary and I can have just as much fun Rping a Ranger that actually does not have the Ranger profession.

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LOL - isn't it funny how these threads always break down to those of us who actually play our rangers and those of us who either have rangers but don't play them anymore (your loss) / those of us who haven't had any ranger skills since the CU.

Here's a novel idea: why don't you guys invest a little more time (and skillpoints) in the profession and then come here and post.

You say I'm a charity case - well, that's interesting because we've taken down the ackley, necrosis (too many times to count), hrracca glade (w/ 5 mins left), the corvette (yes, including the assasination mission) as least 4 times, etc..., and no one has ever said "ahh, let's invite Iseult just to be nice." I'm one of the primary damage dealers in our group, as I can hit for 1200+ on a mob after the jedis apply force armor break to it. 1200+ damage isn't charity.

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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I have had at least 1 Master Ranger since September 2003. Its never been a more useless profession then now.

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Well, the question isn't whether you have a master ranger - it's whether you play your master ranger. Do you play your master ranger? Oh wait - you've already stated above that you don't, and I quote, " I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore." OK, well, thanks for posting I suppose - how about you let those of us who actually still play our rangers talk about the relative usefullness of our profession for a change?

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Go ahead, I am not stopping you but I would like my profession fixed while you continue to love and accept it broken.

So should we complain on this forum where the developers obviously never look and harm the community of people here more? That'll help fix our profession real quick, yeah.

Don't forget the ability to single pull with traps. No need to worry about pulling the whole group of pikets in the first place if you have a Master Ranger pulling them with traps.

The Ranger skill set is not useless and never really has been. But it still really does need some work. Someone who is just Master Ranger will suffer much more than most other single combat profession masters, even if the difference is somewhat smaller at the double mastery (mostly due to the diminishing returns given by stacking). While the profession can be useful, if another combat profession was changed to have the Ranger skill set then they would consider it quite a large nerf.

And, yes, the "useless" posts can get quite annoying.

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Serraphin wrote:

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Iseult wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

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Iseult wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

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I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore they just aren't necessary and I can have just as much fun Rping a Ranger that actually does not have the Ranger profession.

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LOL - isn't it funny how these threads always break down to those of us who actually play our rangers and those of us who either have rangers but don't play them anymore (your loss) / those of us who haven't had any ranger skills since the CU.

Here's a novel idea: why don't you guys invest a little more time (and skillpoints) in the profession and then come here and post.

You say I'm a charity case - well, that's interesting because we've taken down the ackley, necrosis (too many times to count), hrracca glade (w/ 5 mins left), the corvette (yes, including the assasination mission) as least 4 times, etc..., and no one has ever said "ahh, let's invite Iseult just to be nice." I'm one of the primary damage dealers in our group, as I can hit for 1200+ on a mob after the jedis apply force armor break to it. 1200+ damage isn't charity.

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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I have had at least 1 Master Ranger since September 2003. Its never been a more useless profession then now.

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Well, the question isn't whether you have a master ranger - it's whether you play your master ranger. Do you play your master ranger? Oh wait - you've already stated above that you don't, and I quote, " I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore." OK, well, thanks for posting I suppose - how about you let those of us who actually still play our rangers talk about the relative usefullness of our profession for a change?

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Go ahead, I am not stopping you but I would like my profession fixed while you continue to love and accept it broken.

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So exactly when did celebrating the stuff that is actually working well in our profession equate to "accept[ing] it broken"? Why are things always so black and white for you guys? I mean, why can't we get back to emphasizing the things that work in our profession and using that as a foundation to ask for changes instead of the current "ranger is useless" discourse?

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

Iseult this is why. The traps that decrerase/remove defenses do notincrease damage, the states provide little, and the Pdart only helps professions that don't have a comparable attack. The harvesting is quite redundant given a group of scouts but for solo hunting they really are all a Ranger has worthwhile. Camo I contend is still broken and the newCL aggro range systemmasks this I believe. Terrain negotiation above scout is really of no benefit comparatively to that provided by scout. Area track has limited usefulness do to blind spots, reliance on spawn gerneration and the fact that once you have been a Ranger long enough you have more then enough waypoints or knowledge of your specific server to essentially no longer need it. The camps have been utterly reduced to eye candy as now you can insta pull out vehicles with no delay and again who really gets wounds outside of space. The player behind Ranger is useful but the profession is no longer useful. Ranger has become a sinking ship with a lot of FINE captains refusing to leave.

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Serraphin wrote:

Iseult this is why. The traps that decrerase/remove defenses do notincrease damage, the states provide little, and the Pdart only helps professions that don't have a comparable attack. The harvesting is quite redundant given a group of scouts but for solo hunting they really are all a Ranger has worthwhile. Camo I contend is still broken and the newCL aggro range systemmasks this I believe. Terrain negotiation above scout is really of no benefit comparatively to that provided by scout. Area track has limited usefulness do to blind spots, reliance on spawn gerneration and the fact that once you have been a Ranger long enough you have more then enough waypoints or knowledge of your specific server to essentially no longer need it. The camps have been utterly reduced to eye candy as now you can insta pull out vehicles with no delay and again who really gets wounds outside of space. The player behind Ranger is useful but the profession is no longer useful. Ranger has become a sinking ship with a lot of FINE captains refusing to leave.

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ok - let's take this point by point:

1) The traps that decrerase/remove defenses do not increase damage, the states provide little, and the Pdart only helps professions that don't have a comparable attack - ok, this might be so, but sonic pulse actually will reduce a creature's defenses. Yep - this doesn't make a great difference if you're solo, but if you're in a group, then that means that everyone in the group hits for more. Stink bomb traps mean that states stick better -again useful in a group. As for p-dart traps, well, p-dart by itself = creature slowly creeping towards me. P-dart + carbineer cripple shot = creature not moving. I don't know, but I like creatures not moving a lot better than I like creatures coming at me, at whatever their speed. Oh, I should add that there is a timeout for carbineer cripple shot, whereas there is not for the p-dart. That means I can keep the creature snared at all times with a p-dart, whereas if I were just relying on cripple shot there would be times between the snares for the creatures to attack me. OK, so traps are admittedly not as useful as they could be, but "useless"? - not by a long stretch.

2) Terrain negotiation above scout no benefit comparatively - pretty much agree - might be "useless" unless you can get people to bet on a crawl race.

3) Harvesting redundant - not sure what you mean here. Grouped with another master ranger, I've harvested over 1000 units. Now even at current resource prices (20 cpu), that 20k credits per single creature. Not useless at all.

4) Area-track has limited usefulness - yep you have to wait for the spawn system to catch up. But my experience is that if you combine your knowledge of the spawn areas with a knowledge of how the spawn system works and areatrack, it's much, much more efficient than driving around on a scooter hopeing for that lucky spawn. Yep- it would be nice for areatrack to get some help, but it's certainly not useless. How many times have you had to find a mission npc in a city and used areatrack? Or saw a player scoot by in the distance and wanted to know his/her/its name? Areatrack works really well here.

5) camo still broken - might be, but it still has its advantages. You can apply it on a speeder for example - wow, you can craft it and apply it without even slowing down. This means no more stopping to unmount, /maskscent , /mount anymore. You can apply it to people without the maskscent skill (and better yet, they can apply it to themselves, so they don't need to bother you). This is a lifesaver on the lowest level of the ryatt trail (one of the few places where kash camo does work), where the mynstyngers are really agressive stalkers. With camo, you can single pull them with traps. Without camo, you see the herd creeping towards you, and then you have to fight six at once. Also, consider that the harvesting changes have actually made camo more viable, because its that much easier to get the resources they require. Camo broken, well maybe in some instances, but not completely by any means.

6) camps - well, you actually don't take wounds in space anymore. At least, I don't. But let me suggest that camps are actually a little more useful now since you don't see the massive amounts of pre-cu wounds. Why? Because a camp actually makes a lot of sense when you have a few wounds to heal. You can just pop a camp, wait a few minutes, and your five wounds are gone. Don't forget that camps are useful calling droids and creatures in the field. Sure, you can wait fifteen seconds to call each droid, but say you have five droids in your datapad and you can't remember which one you left your spare crate of veghash in. Well, using a camp to call each of these droids in the field is much more efficient than waiting 15 seconds between droids without the camp. We can also pitch camps near lairs now - this is incredibly useful on Dath where you get lairs perched halfway-up a 90 degree slope, but a camp will level the terrain (camps stay up for a while after they disband, so you can still enter combat). And, of course, there's the tried and true camps as a means of getting to a mob stuck in a tree and camps as rallying points. Yep - camps could be made a lot more useful, but, here again, this does not imply that camps are "useless."

Again, it doesn't have to be black and white - "useful" to "useless" is actually a continuum, and my suggestion is that we keep acknowledging the useful parts of our profession as we keep fighting for improvements instead of falling back on this rhetoric of "useless."

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Iseult wrote:


Kinshi, have you played a ranger for the past two months? You do know that the difference between master scout and master ranger is that master ranger can get you to CL level 80, which means that your attacks lands for maximum possible damage under the current combat system. You do know that master ranger gets you the trapping skills you need to land traps on elite creatures?

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Going any combat or combat support profession will get you to CL80 which means you have a wide and varied array of high damage combat attacks and state effects to use on creatures. Thats really not much of a "bonus" for mastering ranger.

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Iseult wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

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I seldom even log in any of my Ranger toons anymore they just aren't necessary and I can have just as much fun Rping a Ranger that actually does not have the Ranger profession.

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LOL - isn't it funny how these threads always break down to those of us who actually play our rangers and those of us who either have rangers but don't play them anymore (your loss) / those of us who haven't had any ranger skills since the CU.

Here's a novel idea: why don't you guys invest a little more time (and skillpoints) in the profession and then come here and post.

You say I'm a charity case - well, that's interesting because we've taken down the ackley, necrosis (too many times to count), hrracca glade (w/ 5 mins left), the corvette (yes, including the assasination mission) as least 4 times, etc..., and no one has ever said "ahh, let's invite Iseult just to be nice." I'm one of the primary damage dealers in our group, as I can hit for 1200+ on a mob after the jedis apply force armor break to it. 1200+ damage isn't charity.

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Actually these arguments always break down into a grouping of

1. People who know Ranger is gimped and play it anyway, having fun and killing stuff nearly like one of the big boys. And hoping Ranger gets fixed.

2. People who know Ranger is gimped and play another profession, having fun and killing stuff. And hoping ranger gets fixed.

3. People who know Ranger is gimped and play it anyway, killing stuff and then saying they are great and so much more wonderful than jedi/ftm/former rangers, because they have found the hidden value of ranger that the rest of us are not enlightened enough to find. Who needs a fix, they are so wonderful they dont need it, they are above the great unwashed of the rest of the game. Begone foul servants.

1+2 are okay, 3 are people who make Jedi seem like decent people.