Ranger Archive
Thread: Time to rock the old boat. I say remove foraging!
Cango
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:01 pm
#14
Meh.
90% of the time when I think of Rangers, I think of Aragorn.
As far as foraging, I think of the Ranger wandering around for a specific plant to use in a remedy/healing treatment/specific use.
right now, forage is like a 2 dollar lottery ticket
90% of the time when I think of Rangers, I think of Aragorn.
As far as foraging, I think of the Ranger wandering around for a specific plant to use in a remedy/healing treatment/specific use.
right now, forage is like a 2 dollar lottery ticket
Owen-Lars
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:38 pm
#15
"Owen is going to be all over you Calculus!"
hah damn right 
Survival is one of the defining parts of ranger in my eyes, foraging is (or more apropriatly the 'concept' of foraging) is a key component. These are just my opinions of course and if no one wants advancements in this area i wont ask for them but:
My take on things:
Ranger should never be 100% effective without using the wild in some way or being in the wild. The wilderness should be our weapon, our tool, our way of surviving and taking from the wild (such as foraging) should be a vital skill. Those from the UK may be familiar with that ex-SAS guy on tv who does those survival shows. Basically he goes out into very hostile environments, no food, no water, no maps or anythings, just the clothes on his backand a bunch of military units and trackers try to hunt him down. Helasts for days living off the wilderness and using it asa tool, aweapon (shows how he could set upnatural traps and craft makeshift weapons) and ultimatly using the wild to survive.
This is how i seeranger in regards to survival. There are many areas that could be developedto beaf up survival, however none of themcapture the idea of going out into the wilderness and truly surviving than foraging.Foraging for items and components to make into extremely useful tools is just one area you could cover but overall the items you can make or utilise would enhance your effectivness in the wild.
I hate the idea of numbnut rangers walking out in the wilderness tooled up with every bit of technology in the universe when they know nothing about true survival and if that technology would fail they would perish as fast as anyone else. To me that shows no understanding about what a ranger is, simply being able to read an instruction manual and press X whenY happens only serves to dilute the commanding vision of what a ranger is about.
Going out into the wild with nothing butthe torn threads you are wearing and being able to survive is the vision i have. Obviously in a game sense anyone can walk into the wild and live through it, but the vision can still be achieved by highlighting the ranger can use the wilderness to survive and can create ingenious items no one else could even concieve of making from fruits, twigs, rocks and animal remains.
I dont want to be able to heal ourselves, i think it encroaches too much on medics, however i want to be able to increase my recovery times in the wild andreduce my downtimeas a bonus tocamps should. Some skills should be passive and always on however these should also have the ability to enhance their effectiveness. So for instance we would have X amount of natural resist to poisons. Finding the natural antidote or plant with resistive qualitiesfrom the wild and using it should enhance ourability to survive poisons.
I dont want these to beweak chef foods, thats their domain, let them haveit. I want foraged items to enhance rangers and make them more effectiveat surviving in the wild. It wont be our only survival tool but it could enable us to make very powerfull items (not just food stuffs and resistance drinks etc) that can help us explore, survive and hunt in the wild.
Perhaps for me, different ideas come to mind when someone says forage.I dont know, but im extremely excited about the potential this skill has and would hate to loose it.
However its up to you guys, ill back you up if you want it gone, but ona personal perspective i would be extremely unhappy seeing it gone as the concept of foraging is probly the most iconic and defining aspect of how i see rangers.
Temujin23
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:24 pm
#16
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Fodder650 wrote:
So....
How do you want me to get bait?
Darn it! I dunno...
Starting with the next publish, the devs could introduce a new loot kit. Fishing bait will require:
1) A bait schematic (requires novice architect, for some damn reason)
2) 4 grubs (looted from chunker nitwits on Talus)
3) 4 worms (looted from marooned pirates on Lok)
4) A magenta lightsaber crystal (random loot)
5) Maybe some fiberplast or something.
Voila! Fishin' bait!
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger/TKM
WildBil2Me
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:25 pm
#17
::Shakes the dust from his shoulders::
Been taking a bit of a hiatus. The curse of the winter months is a steady decline in the temperature of my computer room (its on the third floor, basically the attic). Now that I have a laptop and can follow things from the comfort of the heated floors I can get back into things...
Anyway,
I've been thinking about foraging for some time now. There was a note some time ago about how medical forage had all but been removed. Though I agree that having forage adds to the feeling ofbeing a Ranger and being "one with nature" I think that it really comes down to what can we get out of the skill.
If we are looking at just foraging bait I think its basically a worthless skill. Just add a bait schematic that uses meat or something.
Having forage represent a more active skill would be great. But what can we realisticly ask for? That's not giving up on the skill... that's asking where should we go with it?
Been taking a bit of a hiatus. The curse of the winter months is a steady decline in the temperature of my computer room (its on the third floor, basically the attic). Now that I have a laptop and can follow things from the comfort of the heated floors I can get back into things...
Anyway,
I've been thinking about foraging for some time now. There was a note some time ago about how medical forage had all but been removed. Though I agree that having forage adds to the feeling ofbeing a Ranger and being "one with nature" I think that it really comes down to what can we get out of the skill.
If we are looking at just foraging bait I think its basically a worthless skill. Just add a bait schematic that uses meat or something.
Having forage represent a more active skill would be great. But what can we realisticly ask for? That's not giving up on the skill... that's asking where should we go with it?
ZallusNuranxis
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:31 pm
#18
Calculus_Entropy wrote:How about this, Rangers can forage components for Medical Stims that work like BE add-ons in food items? That would make the Ranger different from the Scout who just gets bait and pet food. There might be a market for it and the Ranger could have another income source
I think that when we have our revamp, we ask that foraging be removed instead of beefed up. It is a relic from beta that should not have made it into the live game (at least that is my understanding..I have not Dev quote, so this is not an official statement). It has been suggested the we should be able to forage various items to help us in the field:
- Mini-food buffs: People think we should find foods that give mini buffs (lower power and less duration) similar to Chef foods. My response is, we have Chef foods, so why do we need crappy versions of them?
- Resist Buffs: People think we should be able to forage foods that give us defense vs. creature derived poisons and diseases. I think these should be inherent skills that allow us to avoid damage from poison and disease.
- Healing Herbs, etc: Herbs that allow us to heal ourselves? Bring a medic.
So, who here is with me?
Feel free to argue for either side (I may have to clarify my points/reasoning).
Nemo0
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:44 pm
#19
I agree with Owen on this one. While the results of foraging might need work, it is a good idea fora skill for us. It would probably be more useful if food was necessary but there are many potential uses for the skill.
Personally, I'd like to see some sort of trap enhancements obtainable through foraging (i.e. we get an optional component in some trap schematics that can be filled with foraged items, making the trap more powerful, have more uses, etc). And you could also have some state healing items, possibly with a decay timer (i.e. you have a root that can cure disease but it only works for 5 minutes after you loot it, making you stop and look around when you get diseased instead of just pulling some item out of a pack and using it).
Temujin23
Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:48 pm
#20
Nemo0 wrote:
I agree with Owen on this one. While the results of foraging might need work, it is a good idea fora skill for us. It would probably be more useful if food was necessary but there are many potential uses for the skill.
Personally, I'd like to see some sort of trap enhancements obtainable through foraging (i.e. we get an optional component in some trap schematics that can be filled with foraged items, making the trap more powerful, have more uses, etc). And you could also have some state healing items, possibly with a decay timer (i.e. you have a root that can cure disease but it only works for 5 minutes after you loot it, making you stop and look around when you get diseased instead of just pulling some item out of a pack and using it).
That's a really cool idea, actually.
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger/TKM
Phenix1050
Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:38 pm
#21
I, like Owen, see the Ranger as a survivalist, a person who lives outdoors and remains outdoors, using their own skills to stay alive where others would die. That includes finding food in the wilderness, in my view.
Now, to be honest, I see it this way: in an ideal world, Rangers would have disease resistance and poison resistance built in-- but would also be able to loot good items out in the wilderness. Now I see these as different from chef foods as you could use them in a variety of different ways. Say you stumble upon a certain herb-- if you eat it, it'll boost your bodies natural healing ability, meaning it gives a boost to all your regen stats (secondaries). But if choose to "Apply" this herb rather than eat it, you'd put it on a wound and it would naturally make the wounds heal faster.
Other herbs would slow down poisons, now making them go away, but making the time between ticks faster, others would slow diseases when eaten. The big difference would be that the herbs wouldn't reallly boost your HAM that much, but that they would be mostly used after a fight, when recovering. That would mean that they are fast-acting, not long-lasting. A good herb might heal a lot of your wounds, but it would only last for 2 minutes-- not very usefull DURING a fight, but very effective afterwards.
Chef foods are great preparation before a fight-- Ranger herbs would be most usefull during recovery time. That's how I envision it.
But, if it remains useless, by all means allow us to get bait (worms) from lairs and be gone with the skill.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:29 pm
#22
Giving in my 2cts, for whatever they're worth...
1. Mini-food buffs: People think we should find foods that give mini buffs (lower power and less duration) similar to Chef foods. My response is, we have Chef foods, so why do we need crappy versions of them?
The answer is given by yourself already. They're crappy. Fix it by making them LESS crappy. Or increase their usefullness as in to be used by chefs to enhance their stuff!
2. Resist Buffs: People think we should be able to forage foods that give us defense vs. creature derived poisons and diseases. I think these should be inherent skills that allow us to avoid damage from poison and disease.
Two way thinking here. As a ranger, it's more natural to have autonomic built in functions to faster recover from poison/diseases/dissieness. But since not everyone *is* a ranger, some kind of foraged items maybe used for just that: helping others recover faster or more helpfull in preventing (used by ranger him/herself too).
3. Healing Herbs, etc: Herbs that allow us to heal ourselves? Bring a medic.
Why? One reason to bring a medic just to be healed? No need. Put up camp and heal yourself. However, healing herbs will allow a ranger to help out when he is out alone in the wild. A ranger (hunter) is often a loner. To carry a medic around (or the need to have novice medic) is rather steep...
If you like this, you could say, bring along a TKM for killing the creatures as well. I don't need to do it myself. Oh. and don't forget an entertainer to fix the mind wounds..
Almagill
Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:34 pm
#23
See, I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, even if it's broke, I'd hate to give up a skill. On the other hand, if it's broke / under-developed, kill it and give us soemthing useful instead.
So, either a fix to forage that allows us to grep useful stuff from the planet herself, be that short term cures, ranger/scout related skill enhancers (after all we get a minibuff now that enhances mask scent) OR give us a replacement skill that is actually useful.
Other than foraging for bait the only time I've forged in anger was when I decorated a local merchants tent with greengrocery. Power foraging Tatooine for onions and melons was, well, surreal.
So, either a fix to forage that allows us to grep useful stuff from the planet herself, be that short term cures, ranger/scout related skill enhancers (after all we get a minibuff now that enhances mask scent) OR give us a replacement skill that is actually useful.
Other than foraging for bait the only time I've forged in anger was when I decorated a local merchants tent with greengrocery. Power foraging Tatooine for onions and melons was, well, surreal.
NlMH
Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:04 am
#24
As a MR and a MCH, I find Foraging to be essential in keeping my pets healthy but more than that, it does add to the play experience of simulated outdoorsman behavior.
While I think Foraging should produce more useful items since Chefs have all the good temp buff foods. I think a better and more realistic solution should be to implement a food necessity in the game to give Rangers a profession perk. In this, I refer that the avatar should require food every so often simply to maintain it's optimum vitals (the exception being logg-off time and while in space). This will add to a realism that is missing, especially since we run around 24/7 with full armor and full backpack. I know just about every other profession except for Chef will probably respond with all guns/blades blazing but since the Chef revamp, most people are hocked up on doc andfood buffs at any given time, anyway so thearguementis moot.
This is just a thought but principly, I feel Foraging is an essential skill at the Ranger/Scout's disposal, even if it currently serves little practical purpous.
Message Edited by NlMH on 01-22-2005 02:07 AM
JeCy
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:14 am
#25
Owen-Lars wrote:
"Owen is going to be all over you Calculus!"
hah damn right
Survival is one of the defining parts of ranger in my eyes, foraging is (or more apropriatly the 'concept' of foraging) is a key component. These are just my opinions of course and if no one wants advancements in this area i wont ask for them but:
My take on things:
Ranger should never be 100% effective without using the wild in some way or being in the wild. The wilderness should be our weapon, our tool, our way of surviving and taking from the wild (such as foraging) should be a vital skill. Those from the UK may be familiar with that ex-SAS guy on tv who does those survival shows. Basically he goes out into very hostile environments, no food, no water, no maps or anythings, just the clothes on his backand a bunch of military units and trackers try to hunt him down. Helasts for days living off the wilderness and using it asa tool, aweapon (shows how he could set upnatural traps and craft makeshift weapons) and ultimatly using the wild to survive.
This is how i seeranger in regards to survival. There are many areas that could be developedto beaf up survival, however none of themcapture the idea of going out into the wilderness and truly surviving than foraging.Foraging for items and components to make into extremely useful tools is just one area you could cover but overall the items you can make or utilise would enhance your effectivness in the wild.
I hate the idea of numbnut rangers walking out in the wilderness tooled up with every bit of technology in the universe when they know nothing about true survival and if that technology would fail they would perish as fast as anyone else. To me that shows no understanding about what a ranger is, simply being able to read an instruction manual and press X whenY happens only serves to dilute the commanding vision of what a ranger is about.
Going out into the wild with nothing butthe torn threads you are wearing and being able to survive is the vision i have. Obviously in a game sense anyone can walk into the wild and live through it, but the vision can still be achieved by highlighting the ranger can use the wilderness to survive and can create ingenious items no one else could even concieve of making from fruits, twigs, rocks and animal remains.
I dont want to be able to heal ourselves, i think it encroaches too much on medics, however i want to be able to increase my recovery times in the wild andreduce my downtimeas a bonus tocamps should. Some skills should be passive and always on however these should also have the ability to enhance their effectiveness. So for instance we would have X amount of natural resist to poisons. Finding the natural antidote or plant with resistive qualitiesfrom the wild and using it should enhance ourability to survive poisons.
I dont want these to beweak chef foods, thats their domain, let them haveit. I want foraged items to enhance rangers and make them more effectiveat surviving in the wild. It wont be our only survival tool but it could enable us to make very powerfull items (not just food stuffs and resistance drinks etc) that can help us explore, survive and hunt in the wild.
Perhaps for me, different ideas come to mind when someone says forage.I dont know, but im extremely excited about the potential this skill has and would hate to loose it.
However its up to you guys, ill back you up if you want it gone, but ona personal perspective i would be extremely unhappy seeing it gone as the concept of foraging is probly the most iconic and defining aspect of how i see rangers.
/rant=ON
preach it man... ranger is about survival and being on your wits.. How many of these whelps go out and hunt for a week strait in the wilds of yavin or endor and not come back to civization once.. no mind buffs, no doc buffs, no groups, no missions terminals, no freinds no bf heal, no nothing..... Just you, and the great unknown. and then come back with 150k of a haul.. get a clue before you go takling about taking away the DEFINING tree in ranger
/rant=OFF
Je'Cy
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:24 am
#26
NlMH wrote:
As a MR and a MCH, I find Foraging to be essential in keeping my pets healthy but more than that, it does add to the play experience of simulated outdoorsman behavior.
As fellow MR/MCH i completely disagree here. To keep my pets alive, i use the special petstimpacks from the BE or foodbuffs from a Chef.. These are way more usefull then anything foraged yourself.
Which, being a MR sounds really stupid to me, so that imho (and lots of others Foraging is borked).