Ranger Archive

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Holocron wrote:

I've renamed this /areatrack, since that makes more sense. The ability of this skill increases as you go up the tracking skill tree. The range increases, as well as what you can scan for:

Novice Ranger - Area Track: Animals, you can search for animals in the area.

Tracking I - Area Track: Direction, you get an approximation of the direction of the target.

Tracking II - Area Track: People, you can search the area for NPCs.

Tracking III - Area Track: Players, you can search the area for players.

Tracking IV - Area Track: Distance, you get an approximation of the distance of the target.

Maybe players will come in Tracking IV instead, since distance can be approximated from the radial map.

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So, what do you mean by "radial map". The overhead map you bring up with ctrl+M? The radar? The planetary map? Or is it something specific to tracking?

My best guess is that it's either the overhead one or else something new. Assuming you mean the overhead map, does this mean that tracking will only work for things that would already show up there?

Jeez, I think I'm probably really missing the point somewhere. Someone please explain where.

To follow Holo's lead, I though I would do a detailed analysis of the Ranger correspondant feedback. AfterHolo's response to Minera's post I felt a littledisapointed with the dev team,fortunatly this post has redeemed them beyond words. They are listening it seems, butplease don't let the discussion stop here. To follow is a very detailed analysis by a Ranger in training (. Much like Holo's response to mineras post, which forced us to look at the problems facing the development team from their prospective, my analysis hopes to shine a light on the feedback from a Rangers prospective. Someof the ideas and questions are not mine, and have been posted on before. I am hoping to put it all in one easy to answer format. So here goes....

Holocron wrote:

Here's the dev reply on this one. I want to emphasize that some of these changes are large enough that they will take a while.

1. We aren't unique.

"Rangers have very little that differentiates them from scouts. Once Master Scout is reached, Ranger is essentially more of the exact same thing."

In my mind this issue is of critical importance and largely trumps the rest of the Correspondent list. The other 4 issues are mainly issues with inhereted scout ability bugs.

The focus of this post will be on how we are making Ranger different from scout. Ideologically, the ranger is still a "super scout." The key is implementing new and unique ways to go about that kind of gameplay.

Each skill tree is being adjusted to be more interesting and unique.

Well there is no argument here! Scout skills are one thing and Ranger skills should be another. While the "gameplay" does not change, the skills and tools used to accomplish our goals should be different. The fact that4 of the rangerissues were really scout ability issues really emphasizes this point.

Wayfaring

Scent mask is now the realm of scouts. Rangers will now get a similar ability called /conceal. A Ranger's conceal ability works very much like scentmask, except for three differences. First, it is a lot more potent: it lasts longer (up to 25 minutes for a Master Ranger) and it rarely breaks. Second, it can be applied to other players. You can now conceal your friends to give them a chance to sneak past enemies as well. The success of the conceal depends on the skill of the Ranger who applied it. Third, it requires a component to apply: a camouflage kit. Camouflage kits are crafted by the Ranger and are planet specific. For example, a Desert Camouflage Kit will allow a Ranger to conceal themselves on Tatooine. Each camouflage kit is assembled from resources gathered on the planet it affects. Camo kits for advanced planets like Endor may be fairly difficult to assemble.

The Ranger will earn experience for successful sneak checks by players he conceals.

It is also possible that the rescue command will be beefed up and moved to the Wayfaring tree (it doesn't really fit in trapping). Bugs with rescue are being fixed as well.

OK, many questions pop up with these changes.

1. First question deals with /conceal. Is this a group command orsomething that must be applied individually to everyone in a group? The reason I ask is simple. If I have a group of 20 going to Endor will I need a camouflage kit for each party member or will one kit cover the entire party?


2. Will this skill set use scouting XP or a new form of XP? Again the reasoning behind this question is simple. First, if each member of my party gives a ranger XP for a successful sneak check and I have a 20 person party it could add up real fast. Second, why would killing creatures have any effect to my camo abillity? I should be rewarded new skills in the Wayfairing line by being a successful sneak not cause I kill lots of creatures.


3. Does Engineering ability have any effect to the new crafting system? Ifa rangerhas no artisan skills will this hurt his abillity to craft these new camo kits?


4. Please answer how/conceal will effect PvP. Will my party be hidden from radar, visually camo'd on-screen, will my enemys be unable to use tab to target me? These are very important issues that could determine a Rangers role in the GCW.

PvP issues aside, until they are addressed, I am very impressed with these changes. It would be great to find out exactly what the devs had in mind with /rescue. Overall with the addition of morecraftable items, more resource gathering, and true stealth gameplay Wayfairing feels complete. Only one issue remains, how about a cooler name? Wayfairer, lol!

Frontiering

The most important change to Frontiering will be the introduction of special camps. These camps will not operate like a normal rest camp. The Ranger's "Hunting Blind" will give him special bonuses to attracting and hunting creatures as long as he stays within it. Other special camps with unique functionality are being designed.

Bugs with camps repelling creatures will be fixed...see the scout correspondent response post for information on camp xp related changes and fixes.

1. This has been suggested 1000 times on the ranger board and will really give the Ranger a big advantage over scout.


2. Other special camps? Oooh, exciting! some of the best suggestions so far have been a Mobile Shuttle station where players can get back to the action faster after a DB, a Mobile Cantina where people can heal BF in the wild, and a Mobile Cloning Station where a player could set a temporary cloning point for a cost and some wounds to get back to a group faster.


3. On to issues with our current camps. Should a HT field base be disbanded by combat? Could it be a permanent structure, in other words, itcould only be disbanded by the Ranger or if the Ranger goes off-world?


4. Last but not least, is it possible for a Master Ranger to set up more than one camp at a time? Example, a Master Ranger takes a group out to Endor or Lok and sets up a Field Base as a central point to operations as well as a Hunting Blind, allowing group members to go back andget some healing from the group doctor. Meanwhile the groups Combat Medic is tending to the fighters in the Hunting Blind. To take this even further, other rangers could set up Mobile cantinas and cloning stations to give a large group all the comforts of home in the wild.

Field Bioscience --> Tracking

The Field Bioscience skill tree will be renamed Tracking. All of the current functionality will remain with two major additions.

/scanarea - At Novice Ranger, the Ranger will recieve the /scanarea command. Players familiar with EQ's tracking system will understand how this works. You can search the area for animals, people, or players. As you climb the tracking tree, more options and information (like direction and distance) will appear. This should make rangers effective at completing hunting missions or tracking down a specific target.

/track - Higher up the Tracking tree, the Ranger will earn the /track command. The /track command will let the Ranger specify a specific creature he wants to find. Hunting for a Veermok? If you are in a region where Veermok live, you can /track for one. Tracking a creature will lead the player on a small mission to find a creature in the area (or in the case of a critical success or failure...an unexpected surprise). Whereas scanarea checks for already existing mobs in the area, /track can be used even if a Veermok lair (or whatever creature you want to find) isn't nearby.

1. Great addition! Or should I say, "wow they finally added thetracking that was promised in the manual!" but I digress, this is all a good thing. hehe.


2. Scan Area seems like some interesting stuff. Many questions come up though. Can we find anything? Player characters? Enemy Faction members? Humanoid NPCs? Lots of interesting things come in to play with PvP if this can allow us to track enemy faction members in a much wider range thanthe radar. Could a Master Ranger track down a group of PvP players getting ready for an assault and warn the town or base? Now that would be cool, but onlyif its use could not be used to exploit or grief.


3. Tracking, what can I say, THANK YOU! I can't wait to see how this is implemented. Seems like something with ideas from the BH missions and destroy missions would work for tracking. Example, I type /track Bantha, a waypoint is generated. I head to the waypoint, and a message says you see signs of a large bantha heard but it seems they have headed north from here, new waypoint is generated to the north, closer this time of course. it might take 4 waypoints to track down a mob for a novice ranger with tracking 1 but a master would find it on the first or second waypoint.


4. (or in the case of a critical success or failure...an unexpected surprise) I Love it! Expecting to find a durni at the next waypoint, nope its a pack of agro'd reds, now that would provide some entertaining gameplay. Critical success intriges me even more, what will we find? I can't wait to find out!

Advanced TrappingRangers are getting a whole new trapping system. Instead of throwing their traps at a target like Scouts, Rangers will deploy their traps on the ground. Each trap will have a different kind of effect. Here are some examples:

Heavy Claw Trap - In order to use this trap, you'll need to draw a creature across it. When the creature draws near enough, the heavy claw trap snaps shut, rooting the creature. The stronger the creature, the more likely it will eventually work itself free.

Lure - A lure can be filled with meat or greens to attract nearby creatures. A creature who detects a lure might break off from its packmates to inspect it.

Tripwire - The tripwire trap can be laid against NPCs as well as creatures. A target who runs across the tripwire will be knocked on his back for a short time.

These unique traps should increase the Ranger's effectiveness soloing and in groups.

1. This is what I see a ranger doing! Lures and bear traps oh my! Grouping with a Ranger just keeps getting better and better. Since these are just some examples, how many new traps are we talking here? 6? 8? Any chance we could set up harvesting traps? Leaveone in an areawith lots of the type of animal we're looking for andcome back and collect the hides/meat/bones. Seems this would work greqat with our /scanarea skill.


2. How many times have you wished you had a lure command? I'd love to take out some mobs that BAF but the fact is I just stay away from them, don't take the missions, etc.. I love the idea about using meat or flora to attract a certain kind of animal, carnivores/herbavores.


3. Rooting and Knockdown are a perfect addition to the Rangers skills lets not forget NPC traps! the question still remains, willany of our traps work on Creature pets and faction pets? Can we root a AT-ST or Rancor? Can we knockdown a huge rush of rebel troops? once again the Ranger is soo close to being a PvP force but alas no answers.

When Do We Get It

I hope to have the implementation of these new features wrapped up soon, but since the Ranger is getting a lot of new functionality to make up for a weak initial skill set, it may take a bit longer to get these features to you. The new traps and wayfaring changes are very close to being ready to go, with the tracking and camps to follow some time after.

Most of the other concerns in the Ranger correspondent report are covered in the Scout response, so go check that out. The key thing for Rangers is the new functionality that should make them a more unique and interesting profession.

In closing I must commend the devs again. We aksed and you gave us what we wanted. There will always be some idea someone had that didn't get included this time, but the fact that so many of our ideas are in this report make me very happy! I'm still amazed you actually said "make up for a weak initial skill set" but even this shows me that you are willing to admit mistakes and that as we all know is a good thing. The fact that the new Traps and Camo changes are close gives me renewed vigor as I work up the Ranger skills. I wonder which of the fourI'll be maxing first! lol.

Tracking and camps will take a long time, I think we all understand this. New art assets and a new game system should take a while, its a given. One request though, keep us up on whats going on. Ask us what we would like to see, it seems to have worked so far.

One last question, and an important one; If XP requirements change, and if these new skillshave a new type of XP, say Tracking XP, or Camo XP, whathappens to those with 1, 2, 3or 4 skill boxes filled, or a even say a master ranger, will we continue to have the same level of boxes filled and retro all new skills or will we have to work our way back up? At the rate I am going chances are I will be a Master before any of these changes make it in the game and I was wondering if it was worth it to continue or should I just work on other skills?

Congrats for reading this all the way through. I know it was a lot, but hey this has really got my mind spinning. There are more questions I'm sure. I just hope I have represented the Ranger community well.

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What about us Bothans and our racial +camoflague bonus? Will that be changed to something else, either ranger or scout appropriate?

I chose Bothan because of that bonus. I wanted the best chance possible to get past mobs.

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THX1139 wrote:

How's this, for example? Grief PVP'ers pick up novice ranger and tracking 1-3 or 1-4. Now they can track for specific people and gank them over and over even though they run away and try to hide. Heck, you don't even need to be PVP to use this to grief someone repeatedly even though they try to hide from you.

You're opening up such a can of worms with this...

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You are so wrong it is scary... once you are killed in a PVP fight your lose your overt status until you get it again. If you are being tracked by a player then just don't go overt. If the player is doing it to annoy you then you report him. Simple.

You are just trying to make something out of nothing. Tracking will not make the game worse, only better.

What I would like to see is having Rangers specialized in animals (they are wilderness specialists) and Bounty Hunters specialized in humanoids (they are professional humanoid hunters)

Tracking:

Rangers should have the tracking/scanning for animals and Bounty Hunters for humanoid NPCs/PCs.

Concealment:

Rangers should be able to conceal themselves from animals, and similarily Bounty Hunters should be able to conceal themselves from humanoids PCs/NPCs.

From the moment I'd heard about the ranger elite profession, I'd always seen it as a way to help out others. I know this is way off the mark of Star Wars, but ranger to me will always be the rangers from Lord of the Rings. For those that don't know (shame on you for not reading such a great book), they can track, live off the earth in the wild, hunt and are a dab hand at combat aswell. They're out there constantly, keeping back those things that come from the dark, keeping the towns folk and city dwelers oblivious to the dangers that lurk out there, because they come between them and civilisation. Might have ad libbed a bit there, but that's how I see rangers anyways

While this doesn't go the whole way towards that, it at least has more protecting of others with the /conceal skill.

I guess to go any further would to be stepping on the Jedi's toes as what I just outlined was I guess partly their role too (the protection bit anyways).

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FrostyThePagan wrote:

What I would like to see is having Rangers specialized in animals (they are wilderness specialists) and Bounty Hunters specialized in humanoids (they are professional humanoid hunters)

Tracking:

Rangers should have the tracking/scanning for animals and Bounty Hunters for humanoid NPCs/PCs.

Concealment:

Rangers should be able to conceal themselves from animals, and similarily Bounty Hunters should be able to conceal themselves from humanoids PCs/NPCs.

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And regarding the camps not staying active in combat....pause and think for a second why having the High Tech Field base not disband when you enter combat would be a bad thing. Once repel creatures is in place and working...basically, that would turn the camp into a portable home. In other words, you could exit the camp, attack a critter, then retreat into the camp to safety, thus repeat over and over again exploiting the heck out of the system.

What you're describing is how the private house system works. That is NOT how camps work. Take a look at improved camp on the Scout tree. It's the only one that currently repels aggressives. It keeps most aggressives from attacking you initially - in my mind, it just kind of removes you from their radar, or turns off your TEF to them. However, once you step outside and initiate combat, running back inside the camp just makes the camp abandon.

What we want is for this existing system to befixed onthe Ranger camps, because it doesn't work at the moment.

Disbanding is different from abandoning. If you go into combat in a camp, it abandons. What people want is to be able to run around and not have it abandon on them, or be able to fight IN the camp without having it abandoning. Not have it work like private homes do now.

~Casslyn

Ok either I'm not reading right or some of you got this wrong.

The griefing element of /areatrack is minimal:

> 3. will /scanarea show everything, or just mobs/NPCs?

I've renamed this /areatrack, since that makes more sense. The ability of this skill increases as you go up the tracking skill tree. The range increases, as well as what you can scan for:

Novice Ranger - Area Track: Animals, you can search for animals in the area.

Tracking I - Area Track: Direction, you get an approximation of the direction of the target.

Tracking II - Area Track: People, you can search the area for NPCs.

Tracking III - Area Track: Players, you can search the area for players.

Tracking IV - Area Track: Distance, you get an approximation of the distance of the target.

Maybe players will come in Tracking IV instead, since distance can be approximated from the radial map.

MY understanding of this is when you are amaster ranger and you /areatrack you get a list of the pc,npc and critters, with distance and directionof each one of them. I mean how big can the area be 512m?

How can you actually tracksomeone at 512m even 1024, by the time you get to were the pc appears on your map he will be gone. With this ability you CAN NOT search for a Individual player or a player faction, he will simply appear in your enhanced radar. Bad luck to him IF he has a tef.

Feel free to correct me if I'mwrong

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Holocron wrote:

4. will the ranger camps still disband when the ranger enters combat (aside from/over and above the new camps).

Currently yes, the camps will still disband. The hunting blind would not, but its meant to be used with combat.

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