Ranger Archive
Thread: Concerns about becoming a Ranger
When SWG first announced classes, I was bent on becoming a Bounty Hunter, until I actually got into the game and discovered that almost everyone I ran into wanted to be a Bounty Hunter....okay so plan B: I become a Ranger, since it needs the same scouting skills, I will not have wasted my skills. I'm very close to Master Scout, and I started reading on this forum, and it really concerns me to see how much being a Ranger will blow. Here's why:
1) Wayfaring: As I have read, the concealment and masked scent enhancements are worthless. And since I have Terrain Negotiation III, and can run up a sheer cliff as fast as I normally run, what happens when I continue to get better Terrain Negotiation? Honestly, it doesn't make much sense to be able to scale a mountain faster than you can run across a flat desert....
2) Frontiering: I have heard numerous complaints on camps as well. But aside from that, this seems to be the most worthwhile skill tree.
3) Field Bioscience: This doesn't seem to have anything interesting either. I don't forage all that much, and buffs foraged aren't as good as the ones chefs or smugglers make anyways. And what does Creature Knowledge do?? I almost never use *examine* on a creature unless I want to see what kind of hide I'll get after I cap them. Creature-to-hit bonus sounds nice though
4) Advanced Trapping: Okay this should be the mother of all skill tiers, but it blows big time. Two new traps?? What are devs thinking? I want monstrous traps that can do things like lower attack speeds or lower attack power, or make them attack another mob for a few seconds (like a hallucinagenic dart or something), or make them completely passive until someone attacks them (think mez from EQ). We already have traps that stun and immobilize, big woop. And what is up with Rescue? All that will do is adjust the order in which group members die.....okay, the doctor is almost dead, so I will rescue him...hey it worked...okay it just killed me...and then it killed the doctor.
1) Wayfaring: As I have read, the concealment and masked scent enhancements are worthless. And since I have Terrain Negotiation III, and can run up a sheer cliff as fast as I normally run, what happens when I continue to get better Terrain Negotiation? Honestly, it doesn't make much sense to be able to scale a mountain faster than you can run across a flat desert....
-- As you have read concealment and masked scent are worthless? hmmmm. Have you tried them? They make my life a hell of a lot easier. Mobs take MUCH longer to find me than my marksman buddies, in some cases they NEVER do while I am shooting them. The Terrain Negotiations do much more than climb cliffs. From 0-50 points it effects your movement speed over cliffs and what not. From 50-100 it effects your prone movement speed the same way.
-- Again, you should try it a little more. What this tree does is 1) Ups the amount of hides/bones/meat you harvest from a mob. Tells you what kind of hides/bones/meat you can get from a mob (some sell more than others, nice cash flow), tells you the mobs resistances/weaknesses (so you can tell your group what kind of firepower they should be using if they can, and/or you will know what you are in for for a fight), tells you wether the mob is agro or not, tells you wether the mob is a killer or not, tells you it's ferocity level. . . etc etc.. Each time you up it, you get more info on mobs. Makes hunting a lot easier in many respects. Unless you dont use tactics in which case it wouldn't matter much anyway. It also gives you the to hit bonus.
3) Field Bioscience: This doesn't seem to have anything interesting either. I don't forage all that much, and buffs foraged aren't as good as the ones chefs or smugglers make anyways. And what does Creature Knowledge do?? I almost never use *examine* on a creature unless I want to see what kind of hide I'll get after I cap them. Creature-to-hit bonus sounds nice though
4) Advanced Trapping: Okay this should be the mother of all skill tiers, but it blows big time. Two new traps?? What are devs thinking? I want monstrous traps that can do things like lower attack speeds or lower attack power, or make them attack another mob for a few seconds (like a hallucinagenic dart or something), or make them completely passive until someone attacks them (think mez from EQ). We already have traps that stun and immobilize, big woop. And what is up with Rescue? All that will do is adjust the order in which group members die.....okay, the doctor is almost dead, so I will rescue him...hey it worked...okay it just killed me...and then it killed the doctor.
-- Trapping gives you (throughout the line) Traps that snare/root (phencacine and adhesive mesh), lower resistances from ranged/melee attacks (glow juice/glow wire), lower attack ability and pools (Bone Spur, Flash Bomb, Sonic, Noise Maker).What I think you are confusing is that just because you get the trap at rank 1, doesnt mean it sucks at rank 7. The higher your trapping the better you are WITH your traps. The more often they will hit against higher level mobs and the more effective they are against higher level mobs. The 2 we get at ranger level are the upgrades to the smoke and noise maker traps.. (just like the Glow Wire is the upgrade to the Glow Juice).
Once a scout/ranger learns to USE their traps (which I must say seems to be a very rare skill from what I have seen) it is almost unfair what the scouts can do. As for Rescue. Think for a minute.....apply some thought rather than knee jerk reaction.
Someone is getting their ass kicked.
- Scout applies rescue
- Mob gets on Scout
- Scout Roots mob
- Scout backs out of attack range
- Group kills mob.
Simple isnt it?
I am a little confused as to where you draw your conclucsions from. Did you just read about the class or did you actually TRY any of this stuff. Or, better yet, talk to someone who HAS tried some of this stuff. I have actually had people tell me I am exploiting due to the ease of which I do most of my hunting, and all I am doing is using MaskScent, Traps, Tactics, Bleed Shots and common sense.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.. I will be glad to answer
Rangers are the most worthless class in the game.
Hopefully they will change them and undo the ridiculous crippling that their implementation has caused.
I am back to EQ until the class I wanted to play is worth playing.
There seems to be a pervasive perception that the Ranger skills don't do anything, or that their effect is marginal at best.
Wayfaring affects prone movement speed...this only makes any real difference if you move around while prone - the only time I move around while prone is when I'm trying to sneak up on something. The value of this skill tends more toward the solo player. It's also the common perception that this skill should do more than it does, such as allowing mask scent to work on NPCs and perhaps PC's at the highest skill level.
Frontiering...the common perception here is that no one wants Rangers to use these camps, so that other players working up the scout survival tree can make camps for the xp, and that when Rangers do use their camps, the increase in heal rates from .65 to .85 isn't enough. The second point is debatable, and the first point will start to go away over time, especially when people start hunting on the higher risk planets, where the ranger camps ability to repel hostile creatures is of real benefit. I would like to see the Ranger camps tuned a little bit, but overall, no one seems to have any legitimate long term complaints about this one.
Bioscience...the common perception is that the creature to hit bonus isn't enough, that the harvesting bonus isn't enough, and that the creature information is pointless. The to hit bonus doesn't seem to have any significant impact on my ability to hit, but I haven't mastered this line yet. I don't see +5 or +10 making all that much difference. The harvesting bonus, well, I get a few more hides, its hard to say whether its worth it or not, and the information about the creatures, well, its only a matter of time before it gets out to spoiler sites, and anyone will have access to the information. I would say that this tree needs some tuning, and is arguably the least valuable of the skill trees, comparitively speaking.
Trapping...the two traps Rangers get differ because they are area effect, which limits their usefulness. No one argues the value of traps, what is being argued is that these 2 advanced traps don't do anything when thrown...no hit or miss messages, no effects applied. That and the majority of the Ranger community would like to see a wider variety of traps, which I agree with. I would like to see a wider variety of effects available, and the area effect essentially removed, since I really don't want to aggro a whole herd of creatures at once (except maybe root). Rescue, well, it depends on the creature you are fighting...if you are fighting a krayt dragon, and you rescue your doctor, you're gonna die. Whether or not the doctor you saved dies depends on the situation. The argument here is that this skill is 'too' situational. It needs to be useful in a broader arena.
The fact of the matter is, perception > truth. If enough people have a given perception, then that is taken as the truth, whether it really is or not. If the Ranger profession isperceived as useless/broken/not worth it, then that will be taken as the truth. I believe that the profession is underpowered and underdeveloped in comparison to other elite professions, especially the hybrids. I don't think that the Ranger should have anything resembling their abilities, but I do believe that the Ranger should have at least 1 skill that is valuable in PvP, and their skill trees should provide more discernable bonuses at the higher levels than they do now. Rangers are by no means lost/hopeless/worthless, but their value does seem to be somewhat limited. I really like the conceptual idea of the Ranger, but I don't think the profession has enough meat on its bones, as it were. It needs to be beefed up a little bit, to round it out.
Mineras Silvertree
Ranger of Eclipse
**edit**, I like your ideas for traps a lot. I think you confused Foraging though, it's part of the Frontiering line, not Field Bioscience. Since I had forgotten, I asked some newbie scouts how much they were harvesting on "healthy" creatures, and there is a definite increase in harvesting. The creature examining is nice, but it's only a novelty. Everyone will eventually know what creatures weaknesses are and what specials they use by trial and error. I am hoping that if/when conceal gets re-implemented, it will make the wayfaring line a bit more useful. Honestly, I would like to see the Creature "To Hit" bonus applied to melee attacks as well. The idea is that we understand these animals so well that we can practically predict their movements. Whether you're firing a gun or punching it, we should receive a bonus.
Thanks for all the insight. Boba, I agree with you, after looking back over the skill trees, I take back a few things I said. I didn't know that terrain negotiation affected prone movement speed....but still its not that great of a feature. Yeah, mask scent is good, but it is one of the main points of being a scout/ranger....it really should protect somewhat against NPC's, or even the aforementioned PC's at the highest level. Seeing as most creatures in the world are far more perceptive and alert than most humans, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Examining creatures at lower levels is useless. They have little to no information to give, nothing that can change the tide of a battle. I understand its importance at higher levels though, so maybe it should be a skill reserved for Rangers or high level scouts, and give us something else instead at the lower levels. I was also not aware that the power of traps increases with skill...thats a definent plus. But still, we need more traps here. This class is definently in need of a little tweaking, but I have hope that the devs will rectify the situation once more serious problems are addressed.
Edo Vahn
Regarding Rescue being useful when a doctor is being attacked, Boba mentioned:
- Scout applies rescue
- Mob gets on Scout
- Scout Roots mob
- Scout backs out of attack range
- Group kills mob.
How is that better than this?
-Scout roots mob
-Doctor backs out of attack range
-Group kills mob
"Regarding Rescue being useful when a doctor is being attacked, Boba mentioned:
- Scout applies rescue
- Mob gets on Scout
- Scout Roots mob
- Scout backs out of attack range
- Group kills mob.
How is that better than this?
-Scout roots mob
-Doctor backs out of attack range
-Group kills mob"
Darnit, I was almost convinced for a second there that rescue might actually have a good use. You had to go and ruin it for me didn't you?
I think there are two reasonpeople complain about the current state of rangers.
1. Lack of overall PvP usefullness
2. Traps only affect creatures, hence, do not work in PvP
3. High level camps not proportionally better than lower level ones
4. Higher level skills broken (in some cases)
I agree somewhat with these ideas, but don't agree that they make the class broken.
I agree that Rangers have limited usefullness in PvP....but our skill tree allows for you to have multiple master professions. The ranger profession by itself SHOULDN'T allow you to own in PvP. But the ranger profession coupled with a weapon profession WILL allow you to compete on a greater scale than the weapon mastery alone. You have to give and take...you can't own in PvE as rangers do AND dominate PvP. It just isn't fair. Rangers (and Creature Handlers) are the best at soloing AND grouping in PvE, hands down, in my opinion. Their range of skills let's them take down much more difficult prey than most professions, and those skills coupled with a weapon mastery makes them EXTREMELY deadly in PvE.
I believe traps should affect all mobs, including faction enemies in PvP. There is just no reason, aside from balancing, that a trap that affects a womprat shouldn't affect a human or wookie in the same manner. The traps scouts and rangers have, though, are incredible against creatures. If you don't think so, then you aren't using them properly, if at all. They allow you to take out mobs so easily, it seems like you are cheating.
Everyone knows that high level camps are bugged. This WILL be fixed. I am positive of that.
Upper tier skills in general need alot of work, and Ranger skills are no exception. The game itself needs alot of work. This game is brand new and there is alot of work to be done. Is this just paying for beta? If that is how you perceive it, then yes, you are. I look at it as being able to enjoy a VERY playable game, and getting my foot in the door so I can help make the changes that will inevitably comework in my favor. Just think how cool it will be to say, "Man, Mask Scent works great! Hey, Bill....remember when you couldn't walk past a nuna without having mask scent fail?" It's all about evolution, and I plan on helping it evolve in the direction I like by submitting /bugs and posting on these boards.
Concealment from NPCs / PCs at Master Ranger would solve the "Ranger is usesless in PvP" real quick. Not showing up on someone's radar, or, if in the prone position, not showing up visually would be REAL mean in PvP.