Ranger Archive
Thread: Updated Fortifications Proposal
just want to say thanks to all the ranger that have helped support the Fortifications idea for the Squad Leader profession. i thought everyone might be ineterested to read the new proposal in the works, and please submit any consructive comments you have. thanks again
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=8981
Interesting read. 
- Apparently we need to give you Squad Leaders something to occupy yourselves, you have too much free time on your hands.
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Personally, I have no problem with sharing camp-like structures with the SQ...
- Squad Leaders do have the Scout Survival skills as a prerequisite, so I get the feeling that the developers intended youto have some form of fortifications of your own.
Just make sure you don't overlap too much into our area of expertise, whatever thathappens to be.
That is a great idea. Firstly I wanted to commend you on your willingness to support the interdependence of the community and to go to our forums to throw your ideas out.
1) I like the fact that the fortification will not be a recouperating area. this makes your fortification unique and usefull. I think you guys should really have a good perk like that.
2) Crafting: The ranger community would benefit from crafting a generic high tech temporary structure (not a camp) that the squad leader would be able to purchase and modify with components that can be added as a leveling up benefit. Currently the things rangers make can only be used by scouts or rangers, decreasing our earnings potential...we sell resources, thats it. However, this generic high tech temp structure would really be a boon to both communities
3) Rangers and SL tend to lead groups, albeit differently, and share a common responsibility for our team.
4) Lastly, ranger camps are used mainly in a defensive capability (in theory with the critter protection), however the squad leader fortification should be given some offensive capability.
Thanks for the heads up, and I hope you keep us updated
AgonThalia wrote:
OmegusNeo
2) Crafting: The ranger community would benefit from crafting a generic high tech temporary structure (not a camp) that the squad leader would be able to purchase and modify with components that can be added as a leveling up benefit. Currently the things rangers make can only be used by scouts or rangers, decreasing our earnings potential...we sell resources, thats it. However, this generic high tech temp structure would really be a boon to both communities
thanks for your support, tis much appresheated!
also you gave me an interesting idea, not sure if its good or not but here goes...
maybe rangers could craft a Digging kit or digging tool set or some kind of digging equipment that a) SLs would use to set up a trench fortification, or b) could be used by an artisan surveyor to boost the power of their surveying devices while sampling.
as for the others i think SL would beable to do the final craft on sand bags but would need to buy fiberplast pannels from artisans/Tailors
the more complex fortifcation im still not sure about. maybe ranger could craft a Base Camp (not a Field Base) that would be a camp that does absolutly nothing and would be upgradeable with componets crafted by other profession, i guess this like the modular camp idea that was brought up the last time i posted teh fortification idea on the ranger board. SLs would be able to upgrade the base camp with fortified walls changing it into a bunker or something else.... i dont know we will have to discuss it further
Rangers,
This thread is posted in the SL forums as well. Please go there as well to see my opinion on this as well. I don't think I could bring myself to write it all over again. I have legitimate arguments against this idea, and Omegus' is less than polite (understatement) in his arguments as to why Squad Leaders should have this and Ranger's should not. Indulge me whilst I quote a couple of his more memorable lines from this thread:
"the rangers that are threatened by the addition of fortifications are those that are unhappy with their profession, and feel that the camps they have are nothing but “eye candy.” They seem to be threatened by anything that even remotely resembles something that they could possibly have as a future addition, even if the idea is really better suited for another profession."
"Squad Leader vs Ranger - in all honestly rangers don’t have any ground to stand on for most of their arguments. They have a working profession, and by working I mean they have skills and abilities that perform a function (area track, camps, traps). True the traps aren’t anything too special, but at least they work"
Here are a couple of more:
"Again, why do Rangers need a "combat camp?" don't you have enough? As a former Soldier, "hunting skills" help very little on a battle field. I see no reason why Rangers need to be involved."
"where Rangers think this should be theirsis beyond me. I'd rather they not put them on the game at all."
"You do not ahave a combat camp, nor should you."
"You feal that it should be an advanced combat camp. You have already gotten an advanced hunting camp that makes you more effective against your enemies - animals."
So in summary the Squad Leaders basically feel we are nothing more than hunters, using our weapons only for hunting, and our camps only for hunting. We apparently dont engage in PvP or PvE (unless they're animals) and we have no justifications for suggesting that an advanced combat camp/forward combat position or any type of fortification be in the line that actually belongs to the Ranger already, the Frontiering line.
I for one stand dead set against this idea, as this type of thing was supposed to have been in developement for some time for the Ranger. Make no mistake, I am VERY happy being a Ranger, but I also look forward to seeing the PROMISED changes for us implemented for us. We are not broken but incomplete, and a suggestion like this goes to the completion process for the Ranger community. Better camps (fortifications) better traps (against NPC enemies and PC pets) go a long way to expanding the Ranger byleaps and bounds. I have directed the SL's to see N'Raas' posts as to the different styles/types of Rangers. Hopefully they'll do some research before providing further editorial like what I've listed above.
My two cents....
Regards,
I speek nothing but truth dude, i'm sorry you read my thoughts inccorectly because i was not trying to sound 'less then polite'
"the rangers that are threatened by the addition of fortifications are those that are unhappy with their profession, and feel that the camps they have are nothing but “eye candy.” They seem to be threatened by anything that even remotely resembles something that they could possibly have as a future addition, even if the idea is really better suited for another profession."
this is the truth from the mouths of the ranger comunity,
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=22038
"Squad Leader vs Ranger - in all honestly rangers don’t have any ground to stand on for most of their arguments. They have a working profession, and by working I mean they have skills and abilities that perform a function (area track, camps, traps). True the traps aren’t anything too special, but at least they work"
All so 100% pure uncencored truth. you, the Rangers, have a working profession. while SLs have one working skill which is nothing more then a fancy /groupchat as our novice level skill. besides you rangers have already had some nice DEV attention, or did you forget about /areatrack and those mass group camo kits what ever they are call i cant remember off hand. while SL are still fighting to get a DEV to read our correspondent reports.
again not trying to be impolite, just stating cold hard facts
Here are a couple of more:
"Again, why do Rangers need a "combat camp?" don't you have enough? As a former Soldier, "hunting skills" help very little on a battle field. I see no reason why Rangers need to be involved."
"where Rangers think this should be theirsis beyond me. I'd rather they not put them on the game at all."
"You do not ahave a combat camp, nor should you."
"You feal that it should be an advanced combat camp. You have already gotten an advanced hunting camp that makes you more effective against your enemies - animals."
i didnt even say those, please dont miss quote me. and please do not blame the SL comunity for the things they are saying, we are frustarted at the lack of attention we are getting especaly considering we have gone for three months and our profession is just as borken and useless as it was at release. but i dont expect you to understnad what thats like.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
So in summary the Squad Leaders basically feel we are nothing more than hunters, using our weapons only for hunting, and our camps only for hunting. We apparently dont engage in PvP or PvE (unless they're animals) and we have no justifications for suggesting that an advanced combat camp/forward combat position or any type of fortification be in the line that actually belongs to the Ranger already, the Frontiering line.
and what makes you think that fortifications belong in the frountering line? do you know what frountiering means? settaling the unsettaled wilderness. and a fortificaiton will never be used for such purpouses. they are to be used to defend cities and bases and PA. they are to protect the brave men and women that fight to protect their lands and defeat their enemies. a fortification is a statigic tool for use in battle and requires a Stratigist to know when to use it, therefore it should belong to the stratigy tree.
lets be logical here, not every profession is good at everything, (right now SLs are only good at spaming the chat window with colorful system messages) the ranger profession has its main focus on hunting. am i not correct? if im not then what is it? survial in the wilderness? i can buy that, but it still isnt a valid argument for you getting fortifactions over us.
your class is directed toward hunting while SL should be a more general combat support class for groups. we are completly useless unless we are with a group (of couse we are completly useless even with a gorup but we are hoping that will change soon). so we arent good at soloing unless we have a good combat profesion to compensate. if you want to be good at everything then you need to pick a variaty of professions that allows you to do so. sounds to me like you want Ranger to be a 'Jack of all trades' profession and that doesnt sound very fair to the rest of the Players in this game. you are coming off greedy and selfish.
we are not asking for anything that does not belong in our profession. we are designed for group combate and that exactly what fortications will be used for. beside think of the posibilities if SL get fortifacions and we are able to combine them with your ranger camps. that will double the need for high level camps in PvP. imagin an all out PvP battle with one small group in a fortified camp defending the enterance to a Player HQ form an invading army that out numbers them, and they win because the doctors were able to keep the troops alive and unwounded because a ranger and a SL worked together to set up the ultimate fortified defence station with full healing allowances and the increased defences. just thinking about it makes me excited!
I for one stand dead set against this idea, as this type of thing was supposed to have been in developement for some time for the Ranger. Make no mistake, I am VERY happy being a Ranger, but I also look forward to seeing the PROMISED changes for us implemented for us. We are not broken but incomplete, and a suggestion like this goes to the completion process for the Ranger community. Better camps (fortifications) better traps (against NPC enemies and PC pets) go a long way to expanding the Ranger byleaps and bounds. I have directed the SL's to see N'Raas' posts as to the different styles/types of Rangers. Hopefully they'll do some research before providing further editorial like what I've listed above.
when did the DEVs say you where going to get anything like this? your correspondent showed me a thread that talking about future Ranger improvements (we havent even gotten one of those for SL yet) and i read it.
'new unique camps' Little vague dont you think? kinda hard to assume that your getting a fortifaction like camp off of that statment....
and as for hunting blinds also extreamly vague, but they did say they would help with HUNTING.... and fortifcations shouldnt be used for hunting. so unless there was some other DEV comment that said you where being given combat specific camps i really dont see how you can claim this.
and again i will mention that you have already had some DEVish lovings while we are still iggnored, all we want it to have a profession that is at least somewhat useful, oh to be as useful as a ranger.... that would be a proud day for us. so please cut us some slack, all we want it to be a funtioning part of the galaxy and if we sound impolite at times its because we are jelous of all the attention that you and the other professions are getting while we remian one of the most broken classes in the game, us and chef...
Please leave now. This has become a discussion that belongs on the SL forum. You don't run in here and start yelling about how Rangers are spoiled and how SL's get the shaft. Go whine elsewhere.
And don't bother with the "just stating cold hard facts" B.S.
We don't really care that much.
Go tell the Bounty Hunters and Commandos how spoiled they are and that some of their weapons skills belong in the SL tree. The PvP-centered Combat professions are better at this inter-profession bickering than we are. You'll have a lot more fun there.
"We don't really care that much."
Well... Some of us do care about what other professions are pushing.
- Especially if it concerns something that might overlap with our skills.
I have no problem with personal opinions on either side, as long as it stays constructive.
- But, I would prefer that postersnotwrite as ifthey speak for the community in general.
Good Hunting.
Just wish the profession bickering wouldn't migrate into our forum.
It's pretty serene here.
Another option for the bunker/heavy bunker would be to require only a camp kit as a component, but the higher the level of the camp kit used, the higher the effectiveness of the final product. Thus the SL coud make a bunker on his own, but by using camps produced by a Ranger he would get a more effective result and thus he would want to team up with a Ranger for "mutual benefit".
The only reason I don't even suggest that an Architect be required for all of this instead of a Ranger is because the whole purpose of the Architect is to design and build permanant structures, as these will not be permanant they more closely resemble camps thus scout/rangers are the more appropriate "crafter" for the job. Although, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for Architects to be required for power units and Weapon Smiths required for hardpoints & weapons (i.e. turrets) as part of the schematic.
1) I do not EVER want to devalue the ranger profession. I wouldnt change being a ranger for a litle cube or anything. If anything, I want to boost rangers so they can live up to the image in my head
2) As for my idea of a generic high tech structure, it is an idea and an idea alone, to be batted around, debated picked over and subject to peer review.
3) My personal views on the HTFB are as follows, they are amazing, the healing modifiers, the crafting stations, the little worthless laser around the perimiter are all designed for, recouperation, defense, resting, healing and general socialization. Our tents are designed (rightfully so) as defensive tents, however the hunting blind should be designed for combat, as there are no specifics on the Hunting Blind...I dont want to speculate.
4) As for the comments on OmegusNeo's SL boards, at least he came over here willing to throw down a suggestion. I think a non-healing, non-defensive, generic high tech structure that we craft could be a very good thing. As long as the SL gets something unique, original and appropriate to their profession and does not do ANYTHING, that our camps do, I say go for it.
5) In my mind, the SL fortification would not regen wounds, no wound healing, no calling pets, no crafting stations, and it would ONLY work for PvP and PvNPC. In other words, the bonuses to the Fortification would not be useful, applicable and tactical for PvAnimal. In fact, a Fortification vs. Animals should give massive penalties, where as our Hunting Blind would give massive bonuses to PvAnimal.
6) Lastly, the fortifications would look nothing...NOTHING like our camps, it should look more like trenches with sandbags etc...maybe a cool little turret or flag.
As always my ideas are up for debate and peer review, I welcome all suggestions comments and complaints, after all, sometimes criticism could bring out an even better idea.
Thanks again