Ranger Archive
Thread: Anyone else feel devalued by Combat Medics getting Terrain Negotiation?
I had heard people talking about this before, but I never took the time to really investigate into it.
Master Scout: +50 Terrain Negotiation
Ranger Wayfarer: +40 (for a total of +90 from Scout) Terrain Negotiation
Combat Medic: +40 Terrain Negotiation
I took a second to crunch the numbers, and there are enough skill points for Combat Medics to master both Scout and Combat Medic, giving them as much Terrain Negotiation as a Ranger. Does this seem wrong to anyone else? Granted that much TN only lets you move faster while prone, but it just seems to devalue Rangers (and since some people think it's a worthless class anyway we need all the bonuses we can get!).
Even without mastering Scout, a Combat Med. could still get the whole Exploration tree and Master Combat Medic by using 198 skill points.
I wouldn't mind Combat Medics having some Terrain Negotiation (maybe +20), but it seems like the amount they get gives people just one more reason to stay away from the Ranger class.
It's crawling, like they are gonna use it? I never ever never ever crawl, it's degrading, demeaning and gets my pants dirty. Therefore, I really never use the Ranger TN technically. They can have mine for all the good it does me.
Let them crawl fast, when was the last time yououtcrawled something?
What I want is some of their ability to use poison and do DoT and DoA, now that would be a kick.
JB
Yeah, they can have my Crawl Speed as long as I can have some of thier DoT's...
Doesn't bother me a bit. If anything, it's just a confirmation that the skill isn't worth a lot.
Heck, I don't care what they do with other professions. I just want the stuff that was proposed to us back on Aug 19th: hunting blinds, camps that repel aggressive creatures, lures, tripwire traps, and the heavy claw trap.
Jamga Gibbrad
Master Ranger
Master Marksman
Novice Rifleman
Novice Medic
No I don't think Ranger is devalued by it.
Combat Medics shuldn't be nerfed for any reason. (no proffession should be)
They should just chage how it effects Rangers by raseing the normal movement rates for pc so rangers can move faster while walking/running as well. IMO a Ranger should be the fastest (movement) class out there. Or heck even giveit a new skill "Mount Movement speed" that will make you ride lil faster on mounts.
/agree
I saw them talking about this on CM forum a few weeks ago. I posted then that I thought it was not needed, and devalues rangers. A top CM can heal you at a distance. Any combat, which is the only time it matters, isn't going to be spread across 100m where it TN makes a difference. The whole reason CM get to heal at great distance is so they can be more effective in combat and don't have to move around much. So now they are making it so they can move around easier, but they don't need to. I've been in a big group of around 20 going hunting. We had a doctor and a CM. No one got incapped at all during our fights. This was before CM got TN. The CM had this gun that launched heals at us from pretty far, I'd say I saw him heal me from about 20m away.
So if you are reading this thread devs, I hope you realize you gave CM something they didn't need, instead of giving rangers, or some other profession, something they do need. Where are our better traps? At least lower the CM TN to like +20. Don't make it basically what a master scout gets. If they want it make them spend the points for exploration fry crying out loud. That's what we keep getting told about things like Group TN the Squad Leaders get. Does this mean the devs are going to to give rangers group TN?
Squidwalker wrote:/agree
So if you are reading this thread devs, I hope you realize you gave CM something they didn't need, instead of giving rangers, or some other profession, something they do need.
Rangers are no more devalued for rangers having terrain negotiation (and that's only 10pts AT MASTER unless they stealth nerfed it when I wasn't looking) than Artisans are devalued by having the devs rip out all the organic requirements from the master camps.
As for healing at range, that range is pretty short (40m) and large groups can get spread out quite well so a combat medic may not have to run forever like a doc but a good combat medic DOES have to run to get into range and often that run involves scaling steep cliffs.
First I want you to know where I am coming from I am playing a Ranger on Eclipes and 2 boxes from Master. I have a Master CM on Wanderhome. So I know a bunch about both.
The Ranger and scout are not de-valued at all from Master CM's having Terrain Negotiation. They don't give it to Novice Combat Medic's! What it does is adds value to Ranger and Scouts. Because if the MCM's don't have it they will have Scout and be harvesting hides and bio's. Given the chance to drop Scout after reaching Master level, most will do so and have to depend on the services of others.
The fact is most classes hold on to Scout just for the Terrain Negotiations of +20. I say give it to many of the Elite Master so they will drop Scout and stop harvesting hides and meats!
WHAT DE-VALUES SCOUT AND RANGER IS THAT EVERYONE AND THEIR BROTHER IS A SCOUT!
I believe that as soon as mounts and speeders come out most higher level players will drop scout because they will won't need Terrain Negotiations with a mount. Right now when I group on high level planets over 100% of the players have Scout Skills! Whats that do to the value of Hides, Meat and bone?
Actually, any high-end ranged stim (one that they'd be able to use with the bonuses to combat medicine use in Support) can heal upwards of 60 meters. I might have gotten more if I hadn't dumped some experimentation points into effectiveness over range.
Still, do I feel devalued as a Ranger?
Not really... I didn't get Ranger for the Terrain bonuses. But that's just me.
WHAT DE-VALUES SCOUT AND RANGER IS THAT EVERYONE AND THEIR BROTHER IS A SCOUT!
I believe that as soon as mounts and speeders come out most higher level players will drop scout because they will won't need Terrain Negotiations with a mount
I believe that the single most contributing factor to the high number of scouts is not the terrain negotiation skill mod, but the fact that one has to master scout to become a bounty hunter. Don't think there are so many BHs? Every day on my server, I pass through Coronet starport at least 3 or 4 times. Every time I pass through, there are at least 2 people shouting ''Training all Marksman and Scout skillzzzzz!!!'' or something of the like. Always different people.
Anyway, back to the topic, I do not feel that combat medics having tn devalues us. I would be happier if it was +30, instead of +40, but i think that at least +30 is appropriate. I think all elite combat classes should have some terrain negotiation. My view is that we should not make everyone else slower, but we should make ranger faster. 50-100 tn buffing prone speed is a crock of doo doo, it should buff open ground movement speed, and i think we can all agree on that.
Or... perhaps there should be a different mod altogether. Instead of adding more terrain negotiation, add a mod called 'terrain speed' that only adds to open ground movement. Why not? Scout has camoflage mod and ranger has concealment mod (oy, i hope i didn't mess that up 
) I'm going to go now, and make a new thread about this idea. Maybe it has some merit, maybe it doesn't hehe
Epoc wrote.
Rangers are no more devalued for rangers having terrain negotiation (and that's only 10pts AT MASTER unless they stealth nerfed it when I wasn't looking) than Artisans are devalued by having the devs rip out all the organic requirements from the master camps
That is a big difference you are talking about with Artisans. To start with, the materials we use in our camps, which we make so infrequently, is such a minisquel part of an artisans income. If they are relying on rangers buying poly and metal(which we still need mind you) then they are doing something wrong. You are talking about an economical thing, and I'm talking about a skill thing. I aslo disagree with taking poly out of our camps. Always thought that was not needed, we need so little of it, it's not that expensive, and those camps are darn impressive. The artisans and their elite professions make the most money in this game anyway, so don't tell me about them not being able to sell a piddly amount of poly to rangers.
Terrain Negotiation is one of the few cool and useful things scouts/rangers get. Yes there are a lot of people with scout just for that. And they sell hids/bones/meat at low prices because that's not their main source of income. And that hurts those with scout/ranger as our main source of income.
Many of us scouts/rangers are a little concerned about mounts actually. It is probably true that most with scout for only TN will give it up, and that's cool. But if there is no major disadvantage in riding a mount to running, scout/ranger will be less cool for us. I heard that on a mount you can't use specials. That is a small disadvantage. I'm thinking like there should be some slow animation of mounting and dismounting to keep people from using mounts as an exploit. Or allow the TN to work while on mount.
If you're a large group, no one should be more then 30-40m out. If this is because there are several targets and not everyone is attacking the same one, then you need better organization. Sure some creatures or NPC will assist each other, but when I've hunted in large groups, we were more organized and we didn't have any trouble. Of course maybe that's because most of the group was rangers. 
Anyway, that's my opinion. If you all think that it's OK to give CM terrain negotiation, then give master ranger some group terrain negotiation. Ever hear of trail blazing? That's what rangers do. People hire rangers to lead them to game,and help keep them safe. It was said by a dev that a rangers job is keep the group safe. Well if they can give the group some terrain negotiation, not much maybe 20 points, then it would fitting.