Ranger Archive
Thread: All other combat hybrids are tied to a weapons line. Why should rangers not be?
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Opie76
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:21 pm
#1
As a Carbineer since the launch of this game I'm excited about the possiblity of Carbineer/Ranger. However my concern is that the players will complain enough to the point that the devs will change their mind.
Exactly why do Rangers feel they are better than Smugglers, BH, Commando? All those hybrid professions take 2 novice professions.
I'm sure each one of them would love to have those skill points back ,but its not in the cards for them. I think as a matter of balance a line in the marskman tree was necessary .
It's about time that Carbineer had a "Side Kick" profession outside of BH. Smuggler had Pistoleer, etc. Commando when fixed will work well with all three ranged profession.
This was not meant as a flame, but if you take it as that, so be it.
Ho'mer
Message Edited by Opie76 on 09-21-2005 05:23 PM
jarger22
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:29 pm
#2
Opie76 wrote:
As a Carbineer since the launch of this game I'm excited about the possiblity of Carbineer/Ranger. However my concern is that the players will complain enough to the point that the devs will change their mind.
Exactly why do Rangers feel they are better than Smugglers, BH, Commando? All those hybrid professions take 2 novice professions.
I'm sure each one of them would love to have those skill points back ,but its not in the cards for them. I think as a matter of balance a line in the marskman tree was necessary .
It's about time that Carbineer had a "Side Kick" profession outside of BH. Smuggler had Pistoleer, etc. Commando when fixed will work well with all three ranged profession.
This was not meant as a flame, but if you take it as that, so be it.
Ho'mer
Message Edited by Opie76 on 09-21-2005 05:23 PM
im inclined to agree.
There is no way that the devs can or will make everyone happy. The current state of the forums with creature centric vs paramilitary is a prime example,
Ranger as proposed is a 'NEW' profession kinda and scout is now more like ranger, this change however horrible to comprehend for Melee, rifle or pistol Rangers, may have to be simply dealt with, at least it will seperate us from the pack as a hybrid profession that requires carbs 
Im only worried that Carb experience might be used as the basis for Ranger development like pistols and smugglers.
Starson
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:30 pm
#3
Well I have been TKA since I started the game, and as covert I see the Ninja type better for me....make the pre-req unarmed.
Soooooo, now do you see how you sound.
Phenix1050
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:31 pm
#4
while I'm sure you're happy for personal reasons, here's something you have to realize. Up until we heard this today, Rangers weren't a hybrid profession We've always been an elite profession. Your comparison is flawed because before today, we never considered ourselves a hybrid. We wanted to be more like doctor, where you take two novice lines and can use whatever type of combat profession you desire to augment your skill.
The fact is that Bounty Hunter has always been a Ranged profession, but Ranger has always been able to pick and choose. THere are a lot of melee Rangers out there that have no desire to play a ranged toon. Just because it's a good "sidekick" for some doesn't mean that they should have to entirely change their profession. You say there are no sidekick profession for carbineer, but there are no sidekicks for swordman, fencer, or pikeman. Carbineer is no more deserving of a sidekick than they are.
In the end, Rangers are not a hybrid profession until this goes live, andI know a lot of people will fight to keep up simply an elite profession, like doctor.
CuchulainnDarklight
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:34 pm
#6
Opie76 wrote:
As a Carbineer since the launch of this game I'm excited about the possiblity of Carbineer/Ranger. However my concern is that the players will complain enough to the point that the devs will change their mind.
Exactly why do Rangers feel they are better than Smugglers, BH, Commando? All those hybrid professions take 2 novice professions.
I'm sure each one of them would love to have those skill points back ,but its not in the cards for them. I think as a matter of balance a line in the marskman tree was necessary .
It's about time that Carbineer had a "Side Kick" profession outside of BH. Smuggler had Pistoleer, etc. Commando when fixed will work well with all three ranged profession.
This was not meant as a flame, but if you take it as that, so be it.
Ho'mer
Message Edited by Opie76 on 09-21-2005 05:23 PM
1. We are not a Hybrid profession we are an elite one.
2. We all ready have a weapons/combat line, thats Scout 0400 in case you didnt know.
3. Rangers (Antarians that is) can be any weapon class they train, the common denominator is they are stealthy and at home in any environment.
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 09-21-2005 05:34 PM
jarger22
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:38 pm
#7
1/ There is no way that the devs can or will make everyone happy. The current state of the forums with creature centric vs paramilitary is a prime example,
2/ Im only worried that Carb experience might be used as the basis for Ranger development like pistols and smugglers. u can replace carbs with any thing here rifles unarmed etc should not be made as basis for profession advancment in ranger.
I would like to highlight the top 2 points
Point 2 i think is a concern for Melee rangers and others more than any.
U can image basic traing as a ranger means gaining skills in carbs for instancehence pre req, but as long as there is no carb experience to further ranger skills in the Ranger Trees then it should work out fine u can still be melee or rifles etc.
PramieJager
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:49 pm
#8
Phenix1050 wrote:
while I'm sure you're happy for personal reasons, here's something you have to realize. Up until we heard this today, Rangers weren't a hybrid profession We've always been an elite profession. Your comparison is flawed because before today, we never considered ourselves a hybrid. We wanted to be more like doctor, where you take two novice lines and can use whatever type of combat profession you desire to augment your skill.
The fact is that Bounty Hunter has always been a Ranged profession, but Ranger has always been able to pick and choose. THere are a lot of melee Rangers out there that have no desire to play a ranged toon. Just because it's a good "sidekick" for some doesn't mean that they should have to entirely change their profession. You say there are no sidekick profession for carbineer, but there are no sidekicks for swordman, fencer, or pikeman. Carbineer is no more deserving of a sidekick than they are.
In the end, Rangers are not a hybrid profession until this goes live, andI know a lot of people will fight to keep up simply an elite profession, like doctor.
Phenix said it as best as could be said.
Many, myself included, would rather see ranger and an elite profession that can enhance game play regardless of the combat profession a player has chosen to play.
I understand the dev's wish to prereq ranger so that the skill points used are similar to that of the Hybrid professions, and thus don't give an advantage to rangers, but there are ways to do that with out hurting the existing players who have chosen to play melee/ranger, or rifle/ranger, or pistol/ranger.
-Zbrax-
Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:56 pm
#9
[19:53] We're going with Carbines IV & Exploration IV for now.
HOC chat
HOC chat
Almagill
Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:04 pm
#10
-Zbrax- wrote:
[19:53] We're going with Carbines IV & Exploration IV for now. HOC chat
And up went the chant... "respec respec respec"
PramieJager
Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:33 pm
#11
Almagill wrote:
-Zbrax- wrote:
[19:53] We're going with Carbines IV & Exploration IV for now. HOC chat
And up went the chant... "respec respec respec"
I still have my token respec...
I'll chant with everyone if it helps get this idea changed.
Landorien
Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:43 pm
#12
Note the "for now" bit. Makes little sense for a toon whose main offensive is traps, not to have traps as aprerequisite, but instead a few carbineskills and modsthat are incompatible with traps.
Also ranged support makes zero sense as well as a prereq, since none of the weapon skills work with traps, unless they are doing something truly radical about traps like the mysterious traplauncher project... mmm... automatic small rifle launching explosive devices.. oh wait thats commando
BioEngine
Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:09 pm
#13
The problem with all of this is balancing. Not every profession has both ranged and melee defense / accuracy / speed mods in them. All professions which branch from Scout that do not have combat modifiers only have scout as their prerequisites. Squad Leader and Bounty Hunter, however, share one branch in Scout and one in Marksman. Because of their tree in marksman, they obtain more ranged combat modifiers than melee. Just like how Smuggler obtains unarmed modifiers by having unarmed as a prerequisite, and pistol special attacks by having marksman pistols as a prerequisite. If there is not a line in Scout that has combat modifiers, and we only have Scout branches as our prerequisites, then we will be the only profession who has combat modifiers that are not founded on combat modifiers originating from a prerequisite profession. That is not balanced.
You have to decide if Ranger will be melee or ranged.
Then accurate or fast or defensive.
Then General . . . . . . .
. . . . . or Rifles or Carbines or Pistols or Swords or Fencers or Unarmed or Pikemen.
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