Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger Stances
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Owen-Lars
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:15 am
#1
Ok, in the campfire cuisine thread the discussion moved from cooking food onto what skills rangers should have, what ones would be taking away from others and what type of mods we would get. From that, ideas such as food buffs, innate resistances and foragable items were all tossed into the fray to try suggest things that would make rangers better at hunting than others.
Whilst thinking more specifically on buffs and food modsan idea surfaced that would indeed make us much better hunters and most importantly throw lots of existing ideas into one, combining them in a way.
Some of the most recent discussions in the ranger forum have been about ways to:
1: Improve our hunting - Ranger Weapons, Skill Mods, Defenses, Resistances etc
2: Improve our ability to pathfind - /Track, /areatrack revamp, mounted TN, increased run speed etc
3: Give us regenerative bonuses - Healing wounds, diseases and poisons etc.
This idea adresses them all of these three catagories in some way or another.
Ranger Stances: (Ranger Modes)
Introduction:
The purpose behind this idea is to give rangers bonuses in specific areas and allow them to have a role in how they play their ranger at that time. What i mean by this is, instead of giving small bonuses here and there, have nice bonuses but at the expense of others at that time. You will see what i mean in the following section:
I love the idea of rangers being able to select what 'mode' they are in depending on what they want to do. It allows the ranger to customise their character to each situation and gives us a better chance of getting substantial improvments rather than small minor ones. I believe the devs are less likely to give rangers 'always-on' significant damage modifyers, plus large regen abilities/mods, plus increased pathfinding ablities.
A much more apealing idea and one that the devs would most likely see as more 'balanced' would be to give us these abilities but they cannot be active all at the same time and depending on what bonus you want, you forfeigt something else to get that bonus.
After a bit more thinking on this matter i have identified 3 possible 'modes' called 'stances that we could aim for that allow the ranger to get substancial bonuses in these area at the cost of others. These are:
Hunting Stance
Pathfinder Stance
Survival Stance
I will detail each of these stances in the following section
Hunting Stance
Detail: This stance is basically what the ranger uses when he/she hunts or is expecting combat. It gives the ranger bonusestoDefense, Offense,Resists andTrapping.
Effects:
Defense: Creature Toughness, Melee/Ranger Defense
Offense: 2x Damage Multiplyer, To-Hit Bonus
Resists: Poison, Bleed, Disease
Trapping: Trapping Mod
Drawbacks:
NONE (none i can think of anyway, perhaps lower regen ability, lower forage, perhaps even slower run speed)
Background: This stance indicates the ranger is focusing all his/her energies on how to take down the beasts he will encounter and how to avoid blows from it using his/her creature knowledge.This stance is designed for common use due to its lack of drawbacks, it will allow the ranger toout hunt any combat stacker around.
Pathfinder Stance:
Detail: This stance isdesign in mind for terrain negotiation and travel. It gives the ranger bonusestoTracking (if /track were to be implemented), Camo andMovement Speedat the cost of defenses.
Effects:
Tracking:+mod to track enabling a much greater chance of locating a beast or big game creature.
Camo: Much greater increased camo mod
Movement Speed: Normal movement speed is doubled
Drawbacks:
Defenses: Ranger aquires a 2.5x damagetaken multiplyer(ranged/melee multiplyer)
Background: The pathfinder stance is effectively what the ranger will use when tracking down beasts, when leading a group through the wild and when trying to avoid agressive creatures as much as possible. The movement speed of the ranger is doubled due to thefact all efforts are being focused on stealth and terrain negotiation at speed. The ranger is much more aware of his/her surroundings and due to this can /track to a much greater degree. Thebenefits of focusingall the ranger'sefforts on pathfinding do not come without a cost however. The ranger become more succestable to damage taken and can often become overwhelmed by creatures if the ranger is not to carefull.
Survival Stance:
Detail:The rangers becomes much more aware of his/her surroundings as a habbitat and place of rest. The rangers focuses alltheir energies on stimulating their imune system to combat bleeds, wounds, poisons and diseases. The effect of which is that the ranger can regenerate much faster at the cost of defenses and movement.
Effects:
Self-Healing:Ranger goes into meditative state curing all poisons/bleeds/diseases/wounds over a time.
Drawbacks:
Defenses: Ranger aquires a 4x damagetaken multiplyer(ranged/melee multiplyer)
Movement: The player is unable to move without breaking the stance.
Background: The Survival Stance varies allot from the other two. Whereas the hunting and pathfinding staces are designed for on the go bonuses and use, the Survival Stance is designed for rest bonuses. Perhaps this stance is only available when in camps or cities, i wasnt sure on this so left it out for the time being waiting feedback. The stance gives the ranger a very helpfull bonus however comes at a potentially fatal cost. The drawbacks to this stance is that the ranger cannot move and is completely open to attack. The ranger aquires a 4x damage modifyer in this state and if not carefull can easily be brought down by even the slightest of beast.
System Mechanics:
The way each stance would activated would be to simple use a command for each. The stance would last until the ranger types the same command again or perhaps on a timer (say 30 mins). The way this system works is entirly open for ideas.
End Comments:
This way of providing ranger bonuses would allow us to pitch for higher values due to the drawbacks associated with them, it would allow us to customise our character into a specific frame of mind depending on what you want to do.
Instead of giving us the ability to make foods to boost ourselves or giving us small always on mods, this ability doesnt take away anyones skills to the point the become useless. Buffs would still bedesirable (HAM + resist buffs), food would still be desirable for the added bonus and it fits in well with the outdoorsman ideal of rangers.
This is just an alternative view on how things COULD be implemented.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 08-11-2004 08:16 PM
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 08-11-2004 08:28 PM
ArillOnahe
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:32 am
#2
Bravo, smashing ideas, the only one that didn't quite, i don't know, 'sit right', was the survival stance. Seems a bit too like a skill of some certain martial artisits out there (TK), and not something a ranger would have. That ability to control their bodies systems through fantastic willpower and control.....Now, lacking that control, the ranger, through maybe, the use of certain things he may, sayforage, and then given time to rest in comfortable surroundings, say in a high enough level camp....Yeah, that sounds like a 'rangerish' way of doing things.
Owen-Lars
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:45 am
#3
Now, lacking that control, the ranger, through maybe, the use of certain things he may, sayforage, and then given time to rest in comfortable surroundings, say in a high enough level camp....Yeah, that sounds like a 'rangerish' way of doing things.
Nice ideas 
Originally it was for a ranger to make an item that enables recovery through the use of foraged items but yeah perhaps it would be much more realistic and perhaps easier to just have an item in the forage table that can reduce those negative effects. I like the idea of the high enough level camp too, perhaps this system would be implemented as part of the modular camp idea?
Owen-Lars
Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:13 am
#4
Anyone have any alternative ideas for how the stances could be used and acticated?
ShyGirl
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:01 am
#7
Yet another excellent post Thor !
Everytime I come to the Ranger forums I feel refreshed.
Anyway, I like all of your suggestions, and as mentioned the "Survival Stance" is too close and similar to the TK meditate branch so I'm not sure it will be accepted by the TK community.
If in case we improve our camps as suggested in other threads, giving camps increased healing attributes, then the "Survival Stance" would be absolete.
I am sad to say that I have no alternate suggestion for your "Survival Stance" proposal.... Let me ponder for a few minutes.
BaneShee
Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:27 am
#8
Very interesting ideas but to be honest I think most of those stances can be achieved by whatever combat profession you choose and I have a feeling that's the way the devs want it. I think we would be considered as way to powerful if all we had to do was /switch from one stance to another and even if it was put on a timer I still think we would be seen as replacing the requirement to have a master combat profession.
Now with all that being said, I do believe that MR + Master Combat prof should be much more effective hunter than any other Master prof + Master Combat prof.
Message Edited by BaneShee on 08-13-2004 10:33 AM
ShyGirl
Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:29 am
#9
Don't you think we need some love?
BaneShee wrote:
Very interesting ideas but to be honest I think most of those stances can be achieved by whatever combat profession you choose and I have a feeling that's the way the devs want it. I think we would be considered as way to powerful if all we had to do was /switch from one stance to another and even if it was put on a timer I still think we would be seen as replacing the requirement to have a master combat profession.
BaneShee
Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:40 am
#10
ShyGirl wrote:
Don't you think we need some love?
BaneShee wrote:
Very interesting ideas but to be honest I think most of those stances can be achieved by whatever combat profession you choose and I have a feeling that's the way the devs want it. I think we would be considered as way to powerful if all we had to do was /switch from one stance to another and even if it was put on a timer I still think we would be seen as replacing the requirement to have a master combat profession.
Absolutely and I think we are way overdue but I'm not sure the devs will buy this path. Owen has posted many other Ranger goodies that I truely love and would support. He also currently has my vote for new Ranger Correspondent when and if Calc gets ready to step aside.Dont worry Calc, I'm not trying to hurry you along, I think your doing a great job I'm not ready for you to leave just yet. 
Message Edited by BaneShee on 08-13-2004 10:41 AM
Owen-Lars
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:35 am
#11
Now with all that being said, I do believe that MR + Master Combat prof should be much more effective hunter than any other Master prof + Master Combat prof.
Yeah thats whats bugging the hell outa me. I keep trying to think of a ways that we could be 'enhanced' over other stacker templates but its prety limited to what we can do without coming back to ranger only weapons.
This idea was basically trying to say "ok you can be powerfull at hunting, moreso than any other profession" BUT "for those non hunter rangers or those who want to do other things such as track etc can also be powerfull but will also take on the costs of that power.
Do you have any suggestions for the DRAWBACKS to the hunting stance? i couldnt think of any and thats why i think it could seems very overpowering. Imanaged to sort out some balancing with the other stances just not this one.
Owen-Lars
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:41 am
#12
On another note yeah people can say that rangers can fight equally as well as other stacker professions as far as harvesting volumes go.
But ive just been testing this out on TC2 (whilst testing the village) by playing with stackers VS master ranger + combat professions. So far i have found i can harvest considerably more as a scout hunting 4 plus various stacked combat classes than i can with single combat + master ranger.
The most obvious finding was that defenses are so much greater with more than one combat profession, in regards to hunting, melee defenses and toughness. Damage output is obviously the same becuase you can only use one combat profession offense at once at any time however the rifle+2hd worked very nice for initial ranged into melee combo.
This could indicate we either need damage multiplyers or go the obvious route of creature damage toughness. This idea tried to capture this and so have many other ideas but trying to find one everyone likes is very hard.
ShyGirl
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:49 am
#13
Yep..... "Hunting Stance" would be a great addition to our profession (However, the Master Doc's might find it unfair).
Owen-Lars wrote:
On another note yeah people can say that rangers can fight equally as well as other stacker professions as far as harvesting volumes go.
But ive just been testing this out on TC2 (whilst testing the village) by playing with stackers VS master ranger + combat professions. So far i have found i can harvest considerably more as a scout hunting 4 plus various stacked combat classes than i can with single combat + master ranger.
The most obvious finding was that defenses are so much greater with more than one combat profession, in regards to hunting, melee defenses and toughness. Damage output is obviously the same becuase you can only use one combat profession offense at once at any time however the rifle+2hd worked very nice for initial ranged into melee combo.
This could indicate we either need damage multiplyers or go the obvious route of creature damage toughness. This idea tried to capture this and so have many other ideas but trying to find one everyone likes is very hard.
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