Ranger Archive
Thread: A distinction that I haven't seen made regarding our proposed Lure traps .
Lure traps should be a guaranteed single pull mechanism (which has been implied, but not explicilty stated); only then will they be useful. As far as I am concerned, the could be ground based as proposed or even a thrown/launched trap. Of course, they would have to be implemented first.
I think the ability for a Ranger to have a guaranteed single pull would be an astoundingly wonderful skill!
Great point / idea Calc! <grumble... forum ate my first attempt to post this so I'm going to probably edit as I recall other stuff I wanted to say>
Couple ideas to get us thinking about what a lure might do, require, etc.
How does LoS affect it?
If it's a thrown trap, we have to see it and have LoS to it to hit it. However, I would think that a lure (likely scent based) would have the ability to make a creature want to wander around the corner of that house over there, or up over the next hill, to see what it's smelling. Perhaps we target a creature and place the trap in the ground while the critter is targetting, then the system does a roll to see if the creature is lured over or not. Higher % chance of success the higher your trapping skill - so a Master Ranger has a pretty good chance of pulling a krayt away from the big grouping over there, but a Novice might not... or might pull the whole group!
Also need to make sure it's not exploitable similar to the fix (or nerf, depending on your POV) to pets, where you could single pull a mob in a building or from a distance by ordering the pet to attack then follow you. Would need to figure out max distance for our lure (60 - 80m?) and whether it would work to pull something out of a building or not (and whether that would be an exploit or not)
What does a failed attempt mean?
On most traps, a failed attempt means nothing more than lost combat time - one or more attacks with your weapon of choice that you didn't get to make while you were doing the trap animation. For a lure, it could be even more interesting if there were several possible outcomes... the lure could pull a single creature (desired result), it could just fail (doesn't pull anything), OR if you're having an exceptionally unlucky day, there's a chance that you pull MORE than one thing over, and when they get to the trap they agro you. I mean, you got the krayts all riled up and hungry putting out that bantha haunch, but you didn't provide enough for everyone... oops. Obviously this would be a risk most often for high end mobs (krayts, kimos, rancors, etc) but would definitely make it more interesting. And I keep hoping that SOME system that gets introduced has both a reward AND a risk component - this would be quite fun IMHO. As your skill in trapping goes up you're more likely to succeed than fail, but you never know if this time is going to be that one "critical fail" or whatever that pulls the whole darn group on you. Maybe tie the chance to a critical fail to some combination your trapping level vs the level of what you're trying to pull; higher chance if you're a Novice Ranger trying to pull an Ancient Krayt over than if you're trying to pull a gnort or durni. Maybe it's still a very small chance (0.1%?) that goes down as you level up, but it would add SOME risk to it.
Creature only?
Of course! Unless they're going to let us build a lure that's a holo of that hot Twi dancer to temp that Black Sun NPC over... or build species specific lures like a fish bowl for Mon Cals, a decorative bowl plus brandy for Bothans, etc.... 
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
I did a quick review of the various revamp documents that we have, and I have not seen this distinction explicitly made.
Lure traps should be a guaranteed single pull mechanism (which has been implied, but not explicilty stated); only then will they be useful. As far as I am concerned, the could be ground based as proposed or even a thrown/launched trap. Of course, they would have to be implemented first.
I think the ability for a Ranger to have a guaranteed single pull would be an astoundingly wonderful skill!
Lure Trap
(notice the tease by Mineras - doh!)But seriously, I think right now this is really a prime skill. Even more so now that they are fixing CH so they an no longer do the single pulls. I would love to see this in our trapping line.
Other "lure" type traps discussed have been mostly ground-based traps that can either lure a single creature (go away, come back, there is a vynock!), or create a whole spawn of a certain type of creature. The ground-based one would be wicked cool, but I think the single pull one (thrown, so you can pick a specific target), would be more useful for group hunting.
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 07-11-2005 01:36 PM
I just wanted to make sure it got pointed out in the threads that the devs might see, you know?
As far as I can tell, our traps pull one critter at a time just fine. Unless you use an aoe trap. As a Ranger with only one combat profession, when i solo it is 'required' that I fight only one mob at a time, 2 at the most.
I
Message Edited by Takanudo on 07-11-2005 01:43 PM
Starson wrote:
As far as I can tell, our traps pull one critter at a time just fine. Unless you use an aoe trap. As a Ranger with only one combat profession, when i solo it is 'required' that I fight only one mob at a time, 2 at the most.
Yeah, but at least with a lure, all we have to do is place it (I'm not sure what the range on the lure would be) and camp out 35-65m away until something took the bait. That beats the whole, move up about 45m, toss trap (toss another trap if the first one fails), feets-don't-fail-me-now routine.
-Takanudo (is easily winded)
Takanudo wrote:
Starson wrote:As far as I can tell, our traps pull one critter at a time just fine. Unless you use an aoe trap. As a Ranger with only one combat profession, when i solo it is 'required' that I fight only one mob at a time, 2 at the most.
Yeah, but at least with a lure, all we have to do is place it (I'm not sure what the range on the lure would be) and camp out 35-65m away until something took the bait. That beats the whole, move up about 45m, toss trap (toss another trap if the first one fails), feets-don't-fail-me-now routine.
-Takanudo (is easily winded)
Exactly...theses would be more of a 'kill them at our own pace' kind of thing. That way, we can set up and bring the critter to us, without it charging us.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Takanudo wrote:
Starson wrote:
As far as I can tell, our traps pull one critter at a time just fine. Unless you use an aoe trap. As a Ranger with only one combat profession, when i solo it is 'required' that I fight only one mob at a time, 2 at the most.
Yeah, but at least with a lure, all we have to do is place it (I'm not sure what the range on the lure would be) and camp out 35-65m away until something took the bait. That beats the whole, move up about 45m, toss trap (toss another trap if the first one fails), feets-don't-fail-me-now routine.
-Takanudo (is easily winded)
Exactly...theses would be more of a 'kill them at our own pace' kind of thing. That way, we can set up and bring the critter to us, without it charging us.
Ahhhh I see what ya mean now, good idea.
yeh.. i misunderstood too... but, in a different way... um... cool pics, though... right?... heh
for a lure like you are talking about, Calc... do you want something persistant, like a harvestor (better example might be something like the old covert faction detectors)?... or something more like our camps - useable environmental item that "poofs" at a given time?...
i'm kind of seeing two kinds now... one you can use like a deed (i dunno, a birdfeeder or cornspreader, heh) that causes migration of low-level critters to gather near it (within 400m)... you could place these in areas with good resource concentrations... basically, these could be used for mass harvesting... low-level creatures give a lower yield, and won't be fodder for xp grinding...
the other, would be like our old "hunting blind" proposal, but modified a bit... it would be likea camp,in that it requires you to stay in it... it would lure increasing challenging creatures into the area... a creature might linger for 4 - 5 minutes, then despawn... if you attack a creature, it closes down the blind and no more creatures will come... basically, you choose what you fight, but if you're waiting for an ancient krayt you could be there a long time, while all these other creatures come in and leave the area...
I think the main ideais that a lure, whether placed or thrown, will single pull a creature toward you without aggro.
-Takanudo (...let me know if I'm missing the mark, Calc)
Takanudo wrote:I think the main ideais that a lure, whether placed or thrown, will single pull a creature toward you without aggro.
-Takanudo (...let me know if I'm missing the mark, Calc)
Basically.
Absolutely no persistant traps (i.e. harvesters), IMO. I am picturing something that you throw, so there doesn't have to be a timer or anything. I would really like the downside of a miss to be to have the whole herd aggro on you, but I know that's not how the AI works.
I think a placed trap would have to have too many restrictions, so I think a thrown trap would be balanceable. Unfortunately, my vision would have to be a placed trap, as I picture the critter walking over to the trap to sniff at it, and then KABLAMMO! Bust a cap in his..uhhh..pardon me
. I don't see how this could work with a thrown trap. YOu guys got any ideas for that?Oh, and for the record, a little birdy told me, when I was still a corr, that they wouldn't happen as they would be too hard to code. But, stealth was never going to happen, either...
This is a brainstorming thread, so let's hear ideas for improving this idea, or tell me why I should be committed.
It seems to me like a kind of lure mechanic currently exists in the game. Due to the whole "gray mob/mask scent" problem I've been going without camo. This means I get stalked by gray mobs all the time, but they won't attack me. Could a lure trigger some version of the stalking code that doesn't result in an aggro? Instead of "You are being stalked by something or other" we would get "A something or other is attracted by your lure." The creature continues to move closer to the lure until the previously mentioned "KABLAMMO!"
This would depend on whether a placed lure could be considered a "stalkable" object. If not, then I would settle for the lured creature to "stalk" me once I threw a lure at it.
-Takanudo (...be vewy, vewy quiet. I'm hunting durni.)