Ranger Archive
Thread: CU: Skill Progression
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WildBil2Me
Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:37 pm
#1
Some concerns that I had for the Ranger profession and things to test while playing around. I'm basing this on Owen's great "Department" scheme that's currently running in the Ranger forum. These are basically some of the "Focus" areas that Owen came up with concerning the areas of Ranger that could potentially be affected by the CURB.
I've added a few links in the next post to help keep people updated as to where this information is coming from. I put it in the other thread to prevent having to have to re-enter the hyper-links every time I edit this.
Bug?: These are things we are unsure of. Are thy bugs? are they working as intended? we aren't sure. Clarification from a dev would be greatly appreciated.
Confirmed Bugs: These are bugs that the Dev team has confirmed to us.
Minor Issues: These are issues that Rangers currently have with the CU.
Major Issues: These are isses that need to be fixed ASAP. They are either Profession breaking, or dangerous to other professions.
Updated with results from testing:
- Trapping Concerns:
Traps are not working within the combat system.Clicking a trap multiple times will throw pairs of the trap at once. This appears to be a result of the trap having no "cool down" time.- There are no cooldowns for Traps currently so you can't tell how they fit into the combat timer.
- The Sharp Bone spur is causing about 50 points of mind damage.
Trapping XP appears to be very very low.Currently trapping cannot be done because the traps appear to have been disabled.- How is Trap throwing affecting your HAM?
- Currently trap Action costs seem in line with low level combat specials. (have only tried traps from upto Trapping
- Trapping functionality and versatility is being handed out to other professions thus negating the value of the trapping lines. (Roots, Snares, and blind especially.) Why use a root trap when you'll A) get more XP for using "firearm strike" and B) don't have to craft anything to use "firearm strike?"
- Traps have stopped working on at least some creatures. "a capper spineflap Guard," "a capper spineflap soldier," and "a capper spineflap handmaiden" are no longer targetable with traps. You get the "The trap only affects creatures." failure notification when trying to use them. Some players are reporting a similar issue with other Creatures as well.
- ***Throwing more than one successful Phecnacine Dart will result in a root that lasts between 2- 4 minutes.
- ***Adhessive Mesh has no Rooting affect currently.
- Harvesting:
- How is your harvesting being affected by the new Combat System?
- How is your XP gain being affected?
- Scout XP is based on CL. New implications leave us unsure of the ramifications. We look forward to finding out though.
- Scout XP from Mask Scent is not in line with XP gains for other professions.
- ***Trapping XP is based on CL. Since many traps don't work on high CL creatures, once the player reaches a certain Level xp gain effectively stops.
- Camping:
- How are the exising Healing Mods working?
- BF Healing?
- Survival XP?
- With the recent change from Wilderness Survival XP to Scout XP for the Frontiering and Survival lines, would it be possible to find out what the plans for these lines are?
- Currently Wilderness Survival XP is still being granted when crafting a camp or trap.
- General Hunting:
- What's harder?
- ***Killingcreatures is excessively tedious.
- What's not hard enough?
- How are Maskscent and Camo holding up?
- Has the radius for gaining XP from Maskscent changed?
- There is no icon stating whether Scent is currently Masked or not.
- ***Camo does not work currently.
- ***/conceal is now for concealshot
- ***there is no use option on the weapon reticle
- ***using a camo kit from the toolbar results in examining the kit.
- General Ranger:
- Combat Level and Health Pool?
So far ScoutHunting, Trapping and Exploration have not effected my Combat Level or Health Pool. There needs to be a better explanation of where these values come from.We've confirmed that currently there is no health bonus granted via Ranger. This is a serious problem which drastically affects our options in game.- SP investment ... do you have enough left over to be productive?
- ***Information is needed as to the current plan for Ranger and the SP requirements.
- Will you be going Master Ranger, Ranger Dabbler, or Non-Ranger as a result of these changes?
- Please seethe first thread listed in my second postfor a thorough examination of this question.
- How do your combat skills fit in the scheme of the CU and your Ranger template? Are some Combat skills not working for you? Are some working too well?
- ***Currently Ranger does not grant any specials to accompany the CL bonuses. As a result Master Ranger / Master Combat results in significantly fewer Combat specials than any other pure combat template.
- (rumors abound) Start learning about cover ... it sounds like this is going to be a major issue for Rangers.
- ***See the Camo post
- General Scout:
- Mask Scent?
- There is no icon next to the char name to dictate whether or not they still have maskscent working after its been initially activated.
- General CU:
- Are there things in the CURB that you feel are negatively affecting Ranger? What are they and why are they bad?
- Players being able to see information that was previously covered in the Creature Knowledge line is an issue. Again, SP that has been used by Rangers to see things like Creature Level is given openly to all professions now.
- Currently the Creature Knowledge mods appear to not be working as old information is no longer used. (armor, resists, etc.)
- Are there things that are positively affecting Ranger? What are they and why are they good?
- Armor:
- Many Rangers feel that the armor being assigned to them is not optimal for their profession. "In the old 3 modes of firing system, it made sense for a Ranger to have across the board protection. However, in the new system, it makes much more sense for us to have Assault armor, since we need a lot of protection from kinetic attacks. leaving us in the middle no longer makes as much sense because all creatures use kinetic attacks." - Phenix1050
- Inspiration Buffs:
- Inspiration Buffs do not grant a bonus to Scouting XP gained via Harvesting.
- Inspiration Buffs do not grant a bonus to Scouting XP gained via Mask Scent.
- Inspiration Buffs do not grant a bonus to Trapping XP.
My thinking here is that we need to come up with some things to bring back to the Ranger community as well as get some things to show the Devs. I welcome anyone participating in any Scout trees to jump in as well. The Ranger experience is about Scout as well afterall.
Hey Owen, JB and the Scout/Ranger teams... did I miss anything?
RECENT ADDITIONS Are marked with ***
Message Edited by WildBil2Me on 04-21-2005 09:42 PM
LangaNor
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:24 pm
#2
1. How is leveling ranger going while leveling your other professions?
2. Is Ranger making it easier to level combat professions?
3. Is it making it harder?
4. Are you having fun doing it?
--------------------------------------
#1. Levelling Ranger was the most brutal gaming I've ever had to live through, thank god it prepared me for the Jedi grind, haha. I levelled Ranger while working on Carbines, and it seemed to take forever. I didn't enjoy levelling Ranger, and was hoping that I'd have more to show for my Master tag... I don't.
#2. It didn't make it easier for me. I worked on Carbines and am now a TKM.
#3. It made it harder in the sense that I had to grind to level my survival tree, even though I didn't want to grind... But let's face it, when do you really need to camp?? And how many times do we need to camp per playing session?? 1-3 times, at the most? It took too long. If I were to just play the game and not grind, camping 3 times per session, and needing 236000 survival xp, I'd have to camp 236 times (and this is a best case scenario, not taking into account that I can't get 1000 points of survival until later in the survival tree and camping 3 times per play sesh). So to reach Master Ranger, I'd have to sit in camp for 79 consecutive days (or if I play 4 times a week, 5 months), just to finish off my survival tree. My point?: Having to grind survival pretty much stopped me from being able to just play, and in turn slowed down my Carbine/TK levelling, because you don't get combat/carbine/unarmed xp by sitting in a camp.
#4. No, I'm not. If my survival xp mysteriously disappeared tomorrow, I'd be too disappointed for words. And I'd more than likely either quit SWG or change profs altogether. It's a really unintresting process. I wish camps gave more xp, or required less for levelling. I used to grind camps while reading the news on the net, or while doing dishes/laundry... That wasn't really me playing the game as much as me having the game on while I camped and did other stuff in RL.
Again, I hope this helps, and I hope this feedback will give us a reason to enjoy our Rangers again.
2. Is Ranger making it easier to level combat professions?
3. Is it making it harder?
4. Are you having fun doing it?
--------------------------------------
#1. Levelling Ranger was the most brutal gaming I've ever had to live through, thank god it prepared me for the Jedi grind, haha. I levelled Ranger while working on Carbines, and it seemed to take forever. I didn't enjoy levelling Ranger, and was hoping that I'd have more to show for my Master tag... I don't.
#2. It didn't make it easier for me. I worked on Carbines and am now a TKM.
#3. It made it harder in the sense that I had to grind to level my survival tree, even though I didn't want to grind... But let's face it, when do you really need to camp?? And how many times do we need to camp per playing session?? 1-3 times, at the most? It took too long. If I were to just play the game and not grind, camping 3 times per session, and needing 236000 survival xp, I'd have to camp 236 times (and this is a best case scenario, not taking into account that I can't get 1000 points of survival until later in the survival tree and camping 3 times per play sesh). So to reach Master Ranger, I'd have to sit in camp for 79 consecutive days (or if I play 4 times a week, 5 months), just to finish off my survival tree. My point?: Having to grind survival pretty much stopped me from being able to just play, and in turn slowed down my Carbine/TK levelling, because you don't get combat/carbine/unarmed xp by sitting in a camp.
#4. No, I'm not. If my survival xp mysteriously disappeared tomorrow, I'd be too disappointed for words. And I'd more than likely either quit SWG or change profs altogether. It's a really unintresting process. I wish camps gave more xp, or required less for levelling. I used to grind camps while reading the news on the net, or while doing dishes/laundry... That wasn't really me playing the game as much as me having the game on while I camped and did other stuff in RL.
Again, I hope this helps, and I hope this feedback will give us a reason to enjoy our Rangers again.
Message Edited by LangaNor on 03-30-2005 04:28 PM
Puck_Starfire
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:30 pm
#3
I think he meant the CU when it hits TC.
Ranger isn't for everyone tho. It took me 2 weeks about to master Ranger this last go-around (of course it was my 3rd time). Scouting was easy. I mastered Ranger before Pikeman. Trapping was even easier. Camping...not too bad. Get to Trapping 4 and grind Adhesive Mesh traps. Get to Survival 2, get the Field Base, then grind to Master. I think once I got the Adhesive Mesh, it took a couple hours to get to the Field Base, and another hour to finish camping. Not bad. I found if you scouted and kept Mask Scent on while grinding combat and harvested everything in sight, Scouting went by quick too. Same with trapping. I've always enjoyed Ranger and I found it very fun. But it's definately a profession that many don't enjoy.
Ranger isn't for everyone tho. It took me 2 weeks about to master Ranger this last go-around (of course it was my 3rd time). Scouting was easy. I mastered Ranger before Pikeman. Trapping was even easier. Camping...not too bad. Get to Trapping 4 and grind Adhesive Mesh traps. Get to Survival 2, get the Field Base, then grind to Master. I think once I got the Adhesive Mesh, it took a couple hours to get to the Field Base, and another hour to finish camping. Not bad. I found if you scouted and kept Mask Scent on while grinding combat and harvested everything in sight, Scouting went by quick too. Same with trapping. I've always enjoyed Ranger and I found it very fun. But it's definately a profession that many don't enjoy.
Message Edited by Puck_Starfire on 03-30-2005 07:38 PM
LangaNor
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:32 pm
#4
Oops. My bad. I'll get back to this thread if I test then. Sorry.
WildBil2Me
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:37 pm
#5
having a good base of experience will help as well. Knowing what people experienced compared to what they will be experiencing is very helpful. Those that might be 2 years past novice might not remember EVERYTHING they went through.
There's plenty that folks from live can bring to these types of discussions.
LangaNor
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:00 pm
#6
Dude, how did you manage to grind camps in a 2 week period?? You have to have been power gaming, like hours upon hours per day. If you collect between 1000-1200 xp for high end camps, and you need a good 8-10 minutes before maxing out (and that was with 2 vehicles and a droid with me), it would require 35 hours of camping to finish off survival all the way to MRanger. So unless you were playing 15+ hours a week, I don't think your situation can be considered a "typical" one.
Scouting xp is easy, driving while masked will work fine, and especially while hunting. Trapping is one of those things where you absolutely NEED to grind to finish easily. Don't get me wrong, it's alot easier than levelling survival, but I mean, in a game play type of situation, let's see the breakdown:
Let's say you play 4 times a week, and you hunt each time (lets do a minimum case scenario):
- averaging 100 creatures per play, at 150xp per critter = 15000xp per play,
- you need 131000xp to finish off trapping,
- that's about 9 sessions of playing, that's not grinding a Rancor while buffed, just regular play,
- If you play 4 times a week, that's more than 2 weeks.
So obviously you grinded like mad to Master Ranger in 2 weeks. I'm not flaming you, just saying that your input is based on power gaming, and I doubt that that represents the playing community generally speaking. I'm interested in knowing how you did it though, so any info would be great.
Scouting xp is easy, driving while masked will work fine, and especially while hunting. Trapping is one of those things where you absolutely NEED to grind to finish easily. Don't get me wrong, it's alot easier than levelling survival, but I mean, in a game play type of situation, let's see the breakdown:
Let's say you play 4 times a week, and you hunt each time (lets do a minimum case scenario):
- averaging 100 creatures per play, at 150xp per critter = 15000xp per play,
- you need 131000xp to finish off trapping,
- that's about 9 sessions of playing, that's not grinding a Rancor while buffed, just regular play,
- If you play 4 times a week, that's more than 2 weeks.
So obviously you grinded like mad to Master Ranger in 2 weeks. I'm not flaming you, just saying that your input is based on power gaming, and I doubt that that represents the playing community generally speaking. I'm interested in knowing how you did it though, so any info would be great.
Owen-Lars
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:04 pm
#7
Hehe survival is easy. Ive doneall my fronteiring in one play session a few times.
Sit in camp making traps and camps in practice mode. Its as easy as that, thexp roles in.
Although trapping didnt taketoo long, it was still the one i had to work at the most.
Nemo0
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:07 pm
#8
Heh, I once decided to try mastering Ranger in a day. I succeeded. It was a long day
.
.
Owen-Lars
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:10 pm
#9
Yep, but its still done prety often even over a 2 or 3 day period.
Yes it is powerleveling and no it isnt fun, but that isnt the point when you have mastered it going on 18 times. Once you have been master and have the equipment to do so and the combat skills to support it, its easy as hell. Starting fresh on tc though with nothing but a cdef rifle is another matter entirely though 
lammergeier
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:38 pm
#10
I've been dabbling on a few Live servers during the TC refugee time (both past and present). once the new CU code hits a server, I'll be starting from scratch again.
because of that, I'm noticing things that I would have overlooked or forgotten. example:
using a rifle (CDEF to laser), I need to spend time /prone and working individual targets. generally, I'll hit a noobspawn like the keren starport and position myself about 50m from a group of targets. a few /overcharge or /headshot's later (assuming I HIT the target and it doesn't rush me), I change targets and repeat.
now comes the slowdown... I /stand and head the 50m to the pile of corpses. I /harvest them.
now, assume that I do this instead with a pistol: I /stand or /kneel at 20ish meters and start gunning. if things go poorly, I run... with a pistol, I can afford to do this and still inflict some damage. as soon as I drop a target, I can harvest (since my range for shooting is about equal to harvest range).
if I do this with a melee weapon? even faster. I throw a /lunge at 20m (to root the target) and charge in to the target. when it dies (assuming I don't incap first), I harvest.
what's the problem? with a rifle, I take time to establish range before engaging a target. with a pistol/melee weapon, I don't need that range for safety. that range is a big slowdown as a prerequisite for entering combat, as well as the only thing that keeps me alive during a fight. once the fight is over, I have to break out of an established firing position to start my work as a scout. if things go poorly (and they often do), then my pile of scout xp can sit around until it despawns.
anyone who has hunted avian meat knows the perils of chasing down targets. unfortunately, 'long range' combat suffers the same horrors of me = here and harvest = over there.
it isn't a game-breaker... but scout xp gated by range and combat style certainly doesn't help advancement at the novice level of play.
because of that, I'm noticing things that I would have overlooked or forgotten. example:
using a rifle (CDEF to laser), I need to spend time /prone and working individual targets. generally, I'll hit a noobspawn like the keren starport and position myself about 50m from a group of targets. a few /overcharge or /headshot's later (assuming I HIT the target and it doesn't rush me), I change targets and repeat.
now comes the slowdown... I /stand and head the 50m to the pile of corpses. I /harvest them.
now, assume that I do this instead with a pistol: I /stand or /kneel at 20ish meters and start gunning. if things go poorly, I run... with a pistol, I can afford to do this and still inflict some damage. as soon as I drop a target, I can harvest (since my range for shooting is about equal to harvest range).
if I do this with a melee weapon? even faster. I throw a /lunge at 20m (to root the target) and charge in to the target. when it dies (assuming I don't incap first), I harvest.
what's the problem? with a rifle, I take time to establish range before engaging a target. with a pistol/melee weapon, I don't need that range for safety. that range is a big slowdown as a prerequisite for entering combat, as well as the only thing that keeps me alive during a fight. once the fight is over, I have to break out of an established firing position to start my work as a scout. if things go poorly (and they often do), then my pile of scout xp can sit around until it despawns.
anyone who has hunted avian meat knows the perils of chasing down targets. unfortunately, 'long range' combat suffers the same horrors of me = here and harvest = over there.
it isn't a game-breaker... but scout xp gated by range and combat style certainly doesn't help advancement at the novice level of play.
Puck_Starfire
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:34 pm
#11
LangaNor wrote:
Dude, how did you manage to grind camps in a 2 week period?? You have to have been power gaming, like hours upon hours per day. If you collect between 1000-1200 xp for high end camps, and you need a good 8-10 minutes before maxing out (and that was with 2 vehicles and a droid with me), it would require 35 hours of camping to finish off survival all the way to MRanger. So unless you were playing 15+ hours a week, I don't think your situation can be considered a "typical" one.
Scouting xp is easy, driving while masked will work fine, and especially while hunting. Trapping is one of those things where you absolutely NEED to grind to finish easily. Don't get me wrong, it's alot easier than levelling survival, but I mean, in a game play type of situation, let's see the breakdown:
Let's say you play 4 times a week, and you hunt each time (lets do a minimum case scenario):
- averaging 100 creatures per play, at 150xp per critter = 15000xp per play,
- you need 131000xp to finish off trapping,
- that's about 9 sessions of playing, that's not grinding a Rancor while buffed, just regular play,
- If you play 4 times a week, that's more than 2 weeks.
So obviously you grinded like mad to Master Ranger in 2 weeks. I'm not flaming you, just saying that your input is based on power gaming, and I doubt that that represents the playing community generally speaking. I'm interested in knowing how you did it though, so any info would be great.
Nah it's easy:
1. Scouting: harvest EVERYTHING. Mask Scent. Self-Explanatory here.
2. Trapping: I grind on Dantooine. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I got more than 150XP. Let's use 150 XP tho. 150 x 8 traps = 1200 XP per creature. (I believe I was getting more like 300 per Stalker/Voritor/Thune but don't have the hard numbers). A lair would spawn about 10, give or take. That's about 12000 XP per lair. Trapping I did literally in a couple days.
3. Survival: this is not hard either. Get to Trapping 4. Grind Adhesive Mesh traps. These give about 100 XP each. Grind them out until you get to Field Base Camps. Grind those (as in craft/practice them, not camp). Another hour and you're done.
Now yes, I did grind through it because it was my third time. For new Rangers I suggest actually playing the profession out and learning the abilities. And I did powergame I guess (6-8 hours a day). And mastering most of the crafter professions I guess I'm proficient at the "crafting grind". For someone else it might take a month, I agree there. But it honestly took me about 2 weeks between scouting and grinding. For those that say you can't hit Master Ranger before you master combat, I did nothing but fight and scout that week. In the end I was Master Ranger and Pikeman 2-4-4-2. But I don't suggest this to new Rangers. There's a burnout that catches up with you when grinding Ranger.
Message Edited by Puck_Starfire on 03-30-2005 11:39 PM
Owen-Lars
Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:49 pm
#12
Mobs/lairs have too much ham:
- We were in a group andstill had to chip away at low level mobsfor ages to get anywhere, please adress this by reducing the ham they have
- We dont mind them being tough but not in a way that requires us to slave away for 8 people to be shooting a target for 2 mins for 100xp each.
- Lairs have too much HP, they take forever to take down. I can understand why they need to take longer times but this is ridiculous
JokitoRoyo
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:40 am
#13
The rate of XP gained from harvesting seemed lower. During the night I was able to get marksman 2-0-0-2 but i am still at scout 1-1-1-0. Traps can't be counted as they are whacked out right now.
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