Politician Archive

Thread: The Day They Saved a Player City All Others Tough Luck

Abido
Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:15 am
#1

I'm writing this thread with a bit of emotion. This one has me rather upset.


The Player City of Caserta on Naboo, Eclipse was recently saved from disaster. This City is also a single PA town. The Mayor, through various reasons, began hiking taxes of the City through the roof, kicking members of his PA, and taking small, but regular, withdrawals from the City Hall Treasury. The Citizens of Caserta were, understandibly, outraged,and filed complaints......as well as posted their concerns on the boards.


What wound up happening was, a CSR then inserted themselves as Mayor.....thus saving the City, and made it easy for the new Mayor Hype to take over and try and rebuild. They CSR Mayor also lowered taxes to previous levels. The old Mayor is no more.


The issue that has meupset is this. On Naboo Eclipse, the original 10 Cities placed in the first 15 minutes of the first day are still the top 10, and still the ones with Shuttles. No new Cities can have a chance until another one falls. There are many many cities Caserta's size or much bigger waiting for the chance. Cities that have stood since 13 homes were placed on the 3rd day of release. Caserta should have fallen.


The CSR had no business effecting the Naboo Political environment on Eclipse. He tried to help a Player Base, and in turn, made a "tough luck" situation for a much larget Player Base. There are at least 7 Player Cities on Naboo Eclipse all without shuttles, all capable of growth.......waiting for their chance, including mine.


There are many reasons why a Player City can fall. Bot Homes destroyed with timers, inactive towns, a more preferred Player City, dissatisfaction with the current Mayor, failure in replacing current Mayor, and many other reasons. Having a Mayor go "Goofy" is a REASON for folks to leave a City, and thus have that City fall.


They had no business "helping" this town, and making all other Player Cities on the planet wait .... even.........longer.


If a City has elected a Mayor, and that Mayor does everything they can to disband the town that the very same Mayor created..........then that City should fall, and another take its spot. We don't need support "helping" these Cities........ there are many more Cities waiting to take their places just fine.


The first 15 minutes of the first day was bad implementation enough. But saving a town that should fall while others have been playing the game as its intended, and biding our time, should be able to take their place. CSR's shouldn't be able to come in, and save this process. This disrupts the very meaning of a fluctuating Player City environment. Having a Mayor do crazy things is a possible REASON for folks to leave a City.


Either make all cities Level 4 and shuttle capable if their population permits, or let these Cities fall. Thats the only way it can be fair.


End of Line...


Message Edited by Abido on 03-17-2004 07:54 AM



Abido Spin- Colonel
Eclipse Politician/Pistoleer- Techno Union
Winner of the "Grumpy Award" 2003
Grand Moff of Techno City 6300 -3600 Naboo.
For screenies of Techno City and the The Seven Wonders of Abido
Abido
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:05 am
#2

Heh. I hit enter with only "The Day" in the title. I understand why that would be "1 Starred".... I guess. I hope you read the thread now, and change your mind.


I hope to get a bit of support on the Politician forums for this topic.





Abido Spin- Colonel
Eclipse Politician/Pistoleer- Techno Union
Winner of the "Grumpy Award" 2003
Grand Moff of Techno City 6300 -3600 Naboo.
For screenies of Techno City and the The Seven Wonders of Abido
Korrack
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:20 am
#3

I think the only viable case a CSR can interfere with a player city is if the current mayor is completely griefing the citizens and threatens to disband it just because he/she is going to lose the next election. I believe the CSR have decided that city disbanding by a mayor who is not in favor is considered griefing, hence they can interfere. This has occured before. Yes, allowing the city to fall would allow lower level cities to advance and have been "fair" to the lower level cities. But how is it "fair" to the people who have lived in the metropolis in question that their mayor has lost his/her mind and decided to delete the city? It's not, hence interference by the CSRs until such a time that they can fix the code to prevent a single persongriefing a city of players.



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Karquile
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:58 am
#4

I agree with this 100%. It's one thing if a city is broken because of game bugs - CSR's should intervene then. But mayoral misbehavior is part of the game! Other better-behaved cities should get their chance. The CSR was wrong.
DaQuilla
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:16 am
#5

Don't want to comment on the actions of the CSR ... judging what is griefing and what isn't is always a close call, and I'm glad that's not my job to decide ...


Just want to note that on Gorath - Tatooine at least one city not of the original 10 got a shuttle ... there is change going on!



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Irelphir
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:54 am
#6

I totally agree Abido, I heard of this and wasn't the least bit happy. Something should definately be done... either increase the amount of level 4 cities or let this city go by the wayside like it should have...


/salute



A__E__G__I__S

DingoBoi
Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:00 pm
#7

As a representative of Xanadu Bay, Naboo, a neighboring city of Caserta, I am outraged over this. The CSR should not have intervened in this situation. The CSR overstepped his bounds by placing himself as mayor. There was no 'bug' involved.


SOE set up the horrid system in the first place and made the rules. Now, many cities, like Techno City and others have been playing by those rules and waiting on their opportunity for a shuttle. To have a SOE reparbitrarily change the rules and give preferential treatment to Caserta is a slap in the face to those cities waiting. They can only turn the other cheek so many times.


The bottom line is that SOE should not have intervened in a city POLITICAL issue. This is a dynamic and DESIGN of the game and cities will rise and fall because of it. Artificial caps require that this occur to afford other deserving cities their chance. Cities MUST be allowed to fall otherwise we are only perpetuating the status quo.





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Abido
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:09 pm
#8

Korrack writes:





But how is it "fair" to the people who have lived in the metropolis in question that their mayor has lost his/her mind and decided to delete the city? It's not, hence interference by the CSRs until such a time that they can fix the code to prevent a single person griefing a city of players.






Korrack, itis fair. This is the whole point I'm making. THEY elected this Mayor. THEY chose to live in the City with this Mayor. THEY didn't elect another Mayor. THEY will either live with the consequences of this Mayor.....or LEAVE. This is a variable to why Cities fall. Bad Mayor! They then leave, and the City falls. Its so simple, I'm really not sure how else to make this clear for you.


Grief? They elected and followed this leader. Perhaps their loyalty could be better served in another City....or with another leader. No suprise, there are tools to fix just that. You can redeed a house and move to another City. You can have another Politician run against this old Mayor, and vote his troublesome behind out. Either way, these are all reasons that a City can fall. Nota reason for a CSR to save the town, nor a reason to deny the other Cities on Naboo Eclipse their chance for Level 4. This was a textbook situation where nature should have run its course.


How can you call it fair when so many people were denied the aspect given within the game? I present to you the following Cities:


- Techno City (Imperial Garrison outside of Moenia. Over 100 people within its Level 3 radius, and more than 125 counting the area within the zone, all eager for the radius to expand)


- KITH (Great City and a bastion for Healing supplies just outside of Theed. Very well designed)


- MERC (Imperial stationed players, eagerly focused on the GCW and a fine City)


- Hale (a bustling community growing very fast west of Moenia)


- Shadowvale (a strong supporter of the area, and an increasing presence within the southern Naboo region)


- Thedoras (a growing community very active on the boards, and eagerly seeking more merchants. A growing Giant)


- Lianorm ( a very capable City in its own right. A powerful Rebel complex used to dwell here, and extremely active playerbase)


- Kauhale'Ka Makoa (this is a "secret" City that has some of the most active players on Naboo)


Korrack, are you saying that this intervention was fair to this combined Player Base? All these cities are large, active, and capable of Shuttle travel. I didn't even bother mentioning the ones that fail in this regard. In no way can you convince me that the greater good was served here. Besides, the fall of a City is an ingame feature. This went against ingame rules and understanding.


What I'm trying to communicate (thought I had in the original post) was that a Bad Mayor is a variable to which Cities fall. Even one that goes loopy. This element is a REASON Cities can fall, and nature needs to take its course. I will remind, and drive this point home often if I have to, for you to understand. BAD MAYOR NEEDS TO BE A POSSIBLE CAUSE FOR A CITY TO FALL. At no point was a CSR needed to intervene. This was an ingame function of a Bad Mayor, with 2 means of which Caserta residents could have saved themselves. Move away, or vote him out. If they fall below Level 4 in the meantime, then thats thecost that City needs to pay. Either folks are prepared to play the game like its supposed to, with both the good and the bad, or they're not.


What exactly was the damage that the old Mayor was causing? He raised taxes and made things difficult on the populace. The homes of folks "taking breaks, vacations, not even playing the game, Bot Homes" were the most effected. After all, the active Player Base could move away, right? They, if they outnumbered inactive homes, could vote this guy out, right?


The moment one makes the argument that the rights of Empty Shell homes from "Vacations, breaks from game, Bot Homes, quit game but maintenance is still paid" OUTWEIGH the rights of a Larger Player Base of "active, thriving communities waiting for their chance," I know they lost all sense of logic and fail in their argument right then and there. Empty Homes CANNOT be more important than Active Homes with people actively trying to play this game.






Abido Spin- Colonel
Eclipse Politician/Pistoleer- Techno Union
Winner of the "Grumpy Award" 2003
Grand Moff of Techno City 6300 -3600 Naboo.
For screenies of Techno City and the The Seven Wonders of Abido
WildmanHT
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:42 pm
#9

Howdy


Obviously Im not on your server but that has to be more to this story for a CSR to intervene like this. Is it possible that this person also threatened to blow up city hall or block the voting terminal?



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Korrack
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:52 pm
#10

I'm saying it could be fair based upon the circumstances. As Wildman (whom I loath yet seem to usually agree with all too often :smileywink put, there has to be more to this than stated. And if the mayor was going to destroy city hall or block the voting terminal then yes it is griefing. And has had a precident set already that the CSRs will interfere and ban anyone threatening to destroy the city because they are going to lsoe an election.


Destroying a city or preventing people from voting is not what the developers intended and is considered griefing and exploiting by both the developers and the CSRs. If this is a matter of a CSR interfering simply because they cannot vote out the existing mayor, then no, that is interfering, but if the incumbent intends to drop politician or leave the city or delete the hall, then IMO it's warranted and per precident.



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Karquile
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:54 pm
#11

The Devs should simply change the game so that a Mayor who is losing the current election (more votes against than in favor)cannot redeed City Hall or do anything else that would result in the destruction of the City.
SusieT
Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:56 pm
#12



You make several incorrect assumptions about the whole issue. I am not able to go into details, but our Mayor didn't simply "go goofy", he was removed from the game, the taxes,/guildremoving,ect. wasdone in retributionAFTER wereported his offense but before the CSR's took action.


You have obviously had some contact with our new Mayor or members of our guild, because this was a private matter that, to my knowledge, none of us have discussed inthe forums(until now). I would have hoped that you would have realized that this was not a typical situation, and would havehandled any information you learned with candor.


To say that we should lose our city because one of our players wasremoved from the gameis just callous, I would not expect that of your town if you were suddenly removed from the game.


I understand that you are upset that your city doesn't have a shuttle, but this is not the fault of the players who reside in Caserta. You are totally wrong to say that our town deserves to "die" just because onejerk in our guild made a mistake. We have been around since the Player City patch, we have worked hard to make our town what it is, we did not deserve to loose everything(not just the precious shuttle) because one jerk got caught doing something wrong. This was not atypical situation that you described, this was an exception, if you have an issue with that you should speak to CSR's themselves...in private.


To any GTA members or Caserta residents that see this, I appologize for discussingthis in public, but after all we have been through in the last week I couldn't stand by and keep my mouth shut while our City was attacked by someone who doesn't even know what happened.



Souxie

Master Artisan/Master Chef/Master Merchant

GTA member and resident of Caserta, Naboo-Eclipse
Tamery
Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:40 pm
#13

I have to agree with Abido on this... the city should have been allowed to fall..

I will say that the game developers should have then looked back on what went wrong and made changes in a future publish.. making it impossible for a mayor to redeed city hall while an election is happening.



Tamar O'Vore
Eclipse
Soon to be Master Chef
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Master Dancer (gave up)
Master Marksman (gave up)
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