Politician Archive
Thread: Devs: is griefing being passively tolerated? Incomplete game system says so.
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Gunslinger74
Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:40 pm
#1
I'd like to report a bug that is called a "feature" by the CSR department. This is not the CSRs fault mind you, it is yours, the developers for allowing this to go on for so long. The CSRs are just following your policy.
Right now, the "feature" that drops inactive players or players no longer living in the city is "turned off" due to some problems it caused with other game systems. The effect of this is to leave players with inactive accounts or players that have moved to another city as default votes for the incumbent mayor. City population continues to rise as new people come in to replace them. However, at some point the number of inactive or MIA players becomes greater than the number of players who are available to vote. Couple this with a mayor that disbands the militia (sohis opponents cannot place buildings)and /citybans anyone enters the city to oppose him (ie. support his opponent), then you have a mechanism for a mayor to permanently entrench himself in office making it mathematically impossible to un-elect him. It becomes even more ridiculous that, as that mayor refuses to grant zoning rights to anyone else, he brings in more and more cross server citizens (who cannot be politically swayed if they never come to the server except to "declare" as a citizen) to pad his numbers in his already mathematically superior position.
The problem is not with the fact that these mechanisms exist. The problem is that SOE policy is still that this is operating within the rules of the game when it is obviously against the spirit of political competition. If the inactive members "feature" were working, then there might be a fighting chance to overthrow a tyrannical dictator, but with the "feature" turned off and not "broken" (aren't we talking semantics in this instance, really?), is it not a hypocracy to say that the game is working as intended when an integral part of the mechanism is non-existent (turned off)??
Many of you may have heard of the hijacking of Ostium Vepres, the home of the Servants of the Shrub. This is the problem we have been facing for the last 72 hours. While the CSRs have been wonderful and sympathetic to our situation, their "hands are tied" by SOE's policy that even if vital game systems are "turned off", they are still "working as intended." Even as the incumbent mayor pads his already superior numbers, we cannot contact lapsed accounts to convince them to vote to un-elect the hijacker. If he continues his crusade to add cross server citizens, it will soon become (if it hasn't already) mathematically impossible to un-elect the man who stole the city we built from the ground up.
CSR's thank you so much for your continued assistance during our plight to deal with city hijacking (a problem only worsened by the lack of that integral feature). Devs, please admit that the game is not working as intended so long as this feature is turned off and make the offense of padding an already mathematical superiority at least /warnable (and perhaps make overt abuse of the lack of this feature /bannable). At the least give the CS team the tools and discression to use their brains when they see something wrong happening... Untie their hands. All we want is fair elections. We don't want you to let us win... just give us a snowball's chance at least.
MisterLeebo
Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:45 pm
#2
I think you've been left with a precious few options. Lacking GM intervention, you might be forced to abandon the city in favor of making a new one, gathering as many resources as you can when you go. This mayor isn't going to have a whole lot of fun living in a city of 1 and eventually all those maintanence fees will catch up with him...
Gunslinger74
Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:56 pm
#3
You know, when explaining to me that the broken system was "working as intended" according to the devs, the CSR actually told me the developers "had no idea how attached you guys would get to your cities."
Can you believe that. We spent hours upon hours upon hours building, paying, etc. We ran stupid, mindless missions to raise the cash for the city. We designed the layout and put our personal touch on the city, and they didn't think we'd get attached to it? The SoS had a city before player cities were even implemented. We birthed this city in our minds before the game even released, and we built it from scratch (without the help of the hijacker btw) with our hard work and sacrifice. Now all that is threatened to be taken away from us because the system the devs say is "working as intended" is missing a very vital safeguard and some twerp decided that he didn't want to play with us in our sandbox anymore, but he took our sandbox with him. When almost the entire active population of a city can't un-elect a hijacker, then something's terribly wrong.
Your invitation is very nice. You are right, we are left with very few options, but this is a matter of right and wrong actions. How can we abandon what we've built and say we wasted countless hours of in-game time because the Developers don't know the extent that their broken system is hurting players and losing them cities? City hijacking has become a problem. This permanent entrenching of mayors is just going to make it worse.
BeerChugger
Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:31 pm
#4
this is true... i was a member of this city once, but i relocated and declared in other cities with both characters... yet i still pay the weekly tax and still am on the citizen list for this town... as are 2 friends of mine whos accounts expired over 3 months ago... i don't have a house there... neither do my friends who no longer subscribe...
clearly anyone that thinks or believes this is "functioning as intended" is completly in the dark with their heads in uranus
at least let csrs help us, even if your too buisy with other stuff like nerfing armor... making jedis too powerful and plentiful.... etc
DarthVillanus
Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:14 am
#5
Apparantly CSR's view corrupt mayors as "player content". They don't consider it griefing other players when the mayor goes crazy and redeeds all the city structures, takes all the money out of the city hall, and then redeeds the city hall of a level 5 city.
I've seen my share of corrupt mayors. Usually kids who get on power trips. If you send in a ticket then CSR's will just tell you that since he's a corrupt mayor you should vote him out of office. They don't seem to realize that a mayor can't be voted out of office if he doesn't want to be. If he starts to lose votes, and suspects he'll be voted out, he can and probably will just destroy the city hall.
| Kalon Wiekog - Dark Jedi Knight |
Zamphire8
Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:02 am
#6
As I agree this guy sounds like a real azz. I was wondering how he got to be mayor? Who elected him in the first place? Why was he chosed ? I have no idea in your case however I hear people all the time saying who has the Skill points for mayor. When someone goes to buy a gun they don't just pick the closest idiot to make it for them? As in RL your vote does count until you vote in a azz like you have now. I do think you should be alloud to choke the **edit** out though.
AofI
Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:38 am
#7
MisterLeebo wrote:
I think you've been left with a precious few options. Lacking GM intervention, you might be forced to abandon the city in favor of making a new one, gathering as many resources as you can when you go. This mayor isn't going to have a whole lot of fun living in a city of 1 and eventually all those maintanence fees will catch up with him...
Not if his planwas to destroy the city to start with.
lostkangaroo
Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:08 am
#8
Zamphire8 wrote:
As I agree this guy sounds like a real azz. I was wondering how he got to be mayor? Who elected him in the first place? Why was he chosed ? I have no idea in your case however I hear people all the time saying who has the Skill points for mayor. When someone goes to buy a gun they don't just pick the closest idiot to make it for them? As in RL your vote does count until you vote in a azz like you have now. I do think you should be alloud to choke the **edit** out though.
He was voted into office by the SOS when he was still a member. At that time our origional mayor had decided that SWG wasn't where he wanted to me anymore and steped aside honorably as any good Shrubbite would have done. This new mayor was elected by the members of the PA when he was still a member of good standing with many friends in the PA. In our PA we are governed by a council of sorts of elected members to sit in one of 10 seats that control different aspects of the PA, such as Public Relations, Ostium Vepres (the city in question), and various others. He found the burdon of leadership to be too great for him to bother with but loved being in control of the city, so he took what he wanted and ran even though he had no right to it in the first place. The city belongs to the members the citizens not the mayor no matter how he views it. The basic point is at one time he was a good choice not a total **edit** like he is being now.
Message Edited by lostkangaroo on 07-03-2004 06:09 AM
DaQuilla
Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:47 am
#9
Sounds a bit like Palpatine ...
I see that some ex-citizesn still pay taxes - so they should still be registered as citizens, and should still have access to the city hall and should still be able to vote the mayor out - or at least "/deny citizenship" on the city voting terminal so they are one default vote less for the present mayor in power. All I can see you do is put all the citizens apearing on the citizen list in the city hall on your friends list and try and try to reach them (many ex may not even now they are still counted to your city).
A way to reach the devs, other than posting endlessly on the boards, would maybe be the 10 questions 19 answers - in which my next favored question would be in the lines of the devs giving CSR more power to help out in player city relations. Although my though at this was more in the lines of getting mayors out of office that really want to get out or are MIA themselves - and the majority of citizens are also inactive - your troubles (and the troubles of the griefing on flurry) could be added to a general request of the devs giving better rules to CSRs to help out in all these cases ... make the interaction with PC politics a greater priority at least for CSRs, because they are very important to the social playground of this game for many paying customers.
Gunslinger74
Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:15 am
#10
DaQuilla wrote:
Sounds a bit like Palpatine ...
I see that some ex-citizesn still pay taxes - so they should still be registered as citizens, and should still have access to the city hall and should still be able to vote the mayor out - or at least "/deny citizenship" on the city voting terminal so they are one default vote less for the present mayor in power. All I can see you do is put all the citizens apearing on the citizen list in the city hall on your friends list and try and try to reach them (many ex may not even now they are still counted to your city).
Its not necessarily the active accounts (Beerchugger was at least able to listen to our story)who are still listed, although I disagree with the CSRs that the system is "working as intended." It is obviously bugged (just because its not turned on does not mean it is not broken). The real problem is that lapsed accounts and suspended accounts are still being counted for the hijacker. That can't be the way the system was intended to be.
Vrond
Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:10 pm
#11
Your right the system is broken.
Some time ago we wanted to change mayors in our city our mayor was going to another server and also wanted the change.
Due to changes over time (folks moving folks quiting the game ect) the only way we could vote the current mayor out even with his own vote and ful support to get un elected we had to have every member of the town vote against him and they all had to vote for the same person.
Same thing happens in large PA elections the leader will win unless everyone votes him out since old members are not removed if the quit.
Kinda like the old graveyard voting scandels where the dead some how kept voting in the real world.
Gunslinger74
Sun Jul 04, 2004 12:15 am
#12
Oh and I'd never give the guy credit for being like palpatine. He's just a baby that said, "you don't do what I say so I'm taking my toys and going home!" Well the toy he took didn't belong to him. It belonged to the people of Ostium Vepres who are being denied a fair election.
Gunslinger74
Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:22 pm
#13
Vrond wrote:
Kinda like the old graveyard voting scandels where the dead some how kept voting in the real world.
That's exactly what its like. The fact that the Devs say that it's working as intended means that they either A. Intended the system to be unfair and able to be exploited, or B. that their policy needs updating and that they should give the CSRs the ability to reset the city manifest so that it accurately reflects the population. Just a thought...
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