Politician Archive

Thread: Petition To Thunderheart stop a Player City Change.

TashSunrider
Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:40 am
#92






Scoooter wrote:

FOR THE LAST TIME. THIS CHANGE WILL HURT EVERY CITY. NOT JUST THE BIG CITIES OR THE SERVER SWAPPERS. BY THIS SOLUTIONS VERY NATURE, AS CITIZENS LEAVE YOUR CITY YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RECLAIM THE SPACE THEY TAKE UP. AND EVEN IF THIS ISNT AN ISSUE FOR YOU KNOW, YOU WILL BE THE ONES EVENTUALLY CRYING WHEN YOU CANT BUILD ANYMORE DUE TO ALL THE INACTIVES IN YOUR CITY, TAKING UP SPACE BUT NOT CITIZENSHIP.


Thanks for the caps and bold..really needed that.


This however is a completely separate issue. Mayors need to be able to evict. There is a strangulation of the smaller cities that cannot grow. Two separate problems.


Seems to me you should be constructive and come up with a workable method in which mayors can evict that does nit elad to exploition or griefing.


TH says quite often he needs good factual reasons and arguments to take to the devs to propose change.


The fact is you do not know the impact except to your own city because you need to get true statistics.


TH will persue eviction if it is prosenetd in a form he can take to the dev team that will work.


Concentrate on that








So you want us to say "oh, great idea" now, let them implement it and ask for them to put a dev to work on the ability to get rid of inactive houses while we watch our city getting destroyed week by week due to the inactives in the core?

Wake up. They will need WEEKS to get it implemented that mayors can remove houses (if they do at all, since its seriously messing with other ppl possessions... id be pissed if i log in after my 4 week vacation and my mayor decided to destroy my house since i was no citizen anymore).


1. SOE can't let the mayor destroy houses of players who are inactive for a few weeks.


2. Cities will ALL be on a countown until they go poof... you start with a few houses in the core, grow over the weeks, have players putting 300k in their small house before they leave for 4 months to play EQ2 or whatever... there will allways be players leaving the game for a while... and they will be more likely to be in the center of your city than in the outskirts. As soon as you drop a level due to the lack of citizens you will lose a large part of the active citizens and the inactives are still there... next week poof again... and so on.


ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME! you will lose your city too, cause no matter how busy it seems right now.. there will always players leave and let there house stay in the city.



Actually the question should be:" How can i have a house in a city WITHOUT being citizen?"

If SOE wants to get rid of cross server trades they have to forbid them in their ToS and take action against offenders. Just to punish the town which has some citizens who decided to grind for a Jedi on another server for a few weeks or whatever sure isnt the way.

Scoooter
Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:20 am
#93

Yes it takes weeks to get a change in. And from what I read it will be 6 weeks and not 3.


Start solving the eviction issue which affects inactive and active players. And yes destroying their house in either case is not good. But the devs could start on something that would relocate it and its contantes outside the city limits.


All cities will not be on a countdown to go poof. Many cities have an active community. You can impliment things as a mayor to facilitate time until the DEVS impliment an eviction system that does not cause destruction or griefing. And in fact this being implimented can be used to absolutely get workable solution through the DEVS.


1) If the limit is 6 weeks ask your citizens to only put 8 weeks of maintenence in their houses max. Sure you cannot enfoce it at this point, but I bet 80-90% abide by that


2) Have your citizens move all storage facilities and factories outside the city limits. Most crafters place them next to their shop, but that is just convenient. Crafters will do that if the reasoon is explained. That will open up room. I f they did it via a cross server trade I am sure they can log on the other sever and communicat with the person that they traded with and get it moved.


3) Really look at your city plan. Are you amking an efficient use of space. Move things around if need be if you need space.


4) Explain this issue to your citizens. Most people know if they are bored with the game.The majority minitary people know if they have a chance to be deployed. If they are ask them to move their house outside the city limits prior to leaving.


5) Explain to your citizens the impact to the city content of just becoming inactive and if they quit the game ask them please to remove their house. I think if you do that the majority of people quitting the game or are undecided will move their house for you before they quit.


6) When PC's first came out the DEVS did say you will want to make a city plan and really think it out.


There are work arounds to this until an eviction method can be come up with.


Although every city will be impacted in one way or another it is a question of degree. With steps taken yourselves you can minimize future impact. The only way you could claim that ALL cities would go poof or have unworkable issues is to get statistics from SOE. Really you can only speak of your own city.


From what I have seen on player cities on my server the active cities will be impacted only slightly like some of the mayors have stated in this thread.


If you are in the case where half your citizens have left the game or are so inactive they cannot simply just log in for 6 weeks, yeah you are screwed. But what content are you getting out of a city liike that. And I would be most cities are not in that situation.


Also if you used cross server trades to do that. You had to meet at one point in time. I bet you have the name of who you can talk to to work something out. Or better yet just have them redeed and stop exploiting and build your city back up with real players.







Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine, Valcyn
DragBlade
Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:30 pm
#94

I think this change is one of the better changes they have made. Maybe 3 weeks is a little short and it sould be 4 weeks. But if that player is not online in 4 weeks then yes they sould be removed from your city as a citizen. It would be nice if we could also remove there house. But why should your city benifet from not having people there. If you only have 50 true citizens then you should not be a level 5 city. So I totaly DISAGREE with this petition. A lot of citys ran off to other servers swapping citizens so they could have bigger citys. This helps put a end to that.


Caldorn
Avalon Mayor



Caldorn
Master Smuggler
FlyingElmo
Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:16 pm
#95

Scoooter - Your solutions are both short-term and unrealistic given both the nature of the solution and the coordination that you would need in order to have 130+ people (in my city for instance) to each abide by those same set of rules. I have told each citizen joining the city that we want them to be as active as possible, and the minute they feel they are going to go inactive to notify me as well as pull up their house. In a perfect world, they would do just that.


The fact of the matter is, the gross majority of players will simply leave without saying anything, and forget everything that you told them (even if you reminded them via email and web). They will deposit hundreds of thousands of credits into the buildings, and chances are you will never hear from them again.


Now, your methods for dealing with that are to not allow any nonhousing structures (Factories, harvestors) into the city, to free up space. And that will free up space, which is true. In addition, you point out that





3) Really look at your city plan. Are you making an efficient use of space. Move things around if need be if you need space.
6) When PC's first came out the DEVS did say you will want to make a city plan and really think it out.






Even if you have the most lean, efficient city around, putting in additional planning to cope with the decreased space and not allowing nonhousing structures in the city is only like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. Please listen everyone: a lot of you see the good aspects of what this tries to accomplish but fail to see the underlying problem with it: no matter what you do, you will eventually run out of space if the developers don't give you the option to evict abandoned buildings, which they currently have no intention of doing.


True, the developers did originally say that your need to think out your city plan. And I'm sure all of us did -- to how the conditions were when player cities were originally released. Now suddenly they are adding a city-breaking condition, which none of the older cities will be able to accomidate since all their infrastructure is already layed out. And even if they did have the chance to redo their layouts, it would still be like a bandaid solution...eventually they would run out of space again.


Think about it guys. I want a good solution as much as you, but this will hurt more than help.
Xscape
Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:20 pm
#96

Caldorn wrote

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this change is one of the better changes they have made. Maybe 3 weeks is a little short and it sould be 4 weeks. But if that player is not online in 4 weeks then yes they sould be removed from your city as a citizen. It would be nice if we could also remove there house. But why should your city benifet from not having people there. If you only have 50 true citizens then you should not be a level 5 city. So I totaly DISAGREE with this petition. A lot of citys ran off to other servers swapping citizens so they could have bigger citys. This helps put a end to that.


Caldorn
Avalon Mayor

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your probably blinded by your desire to get your city over its current limits so Ill refrain from the flaming I felt like giving your post. But if you believe this will fix the issie your sadly mistaken the server swapping with this will only take new more professional forms. And this will affect you also eventually in a negative way.

If you want a city wait until they add more planets you lost this round plain and simple by not being among the first to place a city hall.






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DragBlade
Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:54 pm
#97

Well sorry but Im not as you put it Scape "blinded". My city is already a level 5 city and was one of the fist ones on Tat. And it took alot of work to do it with the location that we are at. So work on a better flam then that.

Why are you so afraid of the change? Are you afraid you'll have to do your job as mayor and accualy be in your city to run it. Is 3 weeks to short, yes. Sould be 4-6 weeks. And yes we should be able to remove there building or at least move it. But the bottom line is this needs to be done. Everyone seems to have a excuse as to why there citizens are not playing for more then 3 weeks. Hell all they have to do is log in and play for an hour or something like that once every 3 weeks. If your going to lose your rank because of it, then you do not deserve that city rank! The whole idea is that the larger citys have people in them, not just alot of houses. So when you can give me a good reason why this is a bad idea, I say it rocks and lets get it into the live game asap.

Caldorn
Avalon Mayor

Ya thats Avalon (Metropolis)



Caldorn
Master Smuggler
Zentragon
Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:00 pm
#98



DragBlade wrote:
Well sorry but Im not as you put it Scape "blinded". My city is already a level 5 city and was one of the fist ones on Tat. And it took alot of work to do it with the location that we are at. So work on a better flam then that.

Why are you so afraid of the change? Are you afraid you'll have to do your job as mayor and accualy be in your city to run it. Is 3 weeks to short, yes. Sould be 4-6 weeks. And yes we should be able to remove there building or at least move it. But the bottom line is this needs to be done. Everyone seems to have a excuse as to why there citizens are not playing for more then 3 weeks. Hell all they have to do is log in and play for an hour or something like that once every 3 weeks. If your going to lose your rank because of it, then you do not deserve that city rank! The whole idea is that the larger citys have people in them, not just alot of houses. So when you can give me a good reason why this is a bad idea, I say it rocks and lets get it into the live game asap.

Caldorn
Avalon Mayor

Ya thats Avalon (Metropolis)








Caldorn! I'm so glad that you're not in the Dev Team, as you're SO WRONG! And i'm not going to explain why since the answer is a;ready posted right here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_testing&message.id=1104&page=2

So go read that and at least support the troops over seas!




Visedar Sar
» Founder of Darjani, Dantooine, Valcyn
» Mayor of Darjani, Dantooine, Valcyn
» Co-Founder of 'Order of Defiant Darjani'
» Co-Leader of 'Order of Defiant Darjani'
www.Darjani.com
"Fear of something is at the root of hate for others, and hate within will eventually destroy the hater." - George Washington Carver

Chibi-Bar
Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:21 am
#99

Just do that change only WILL NOT FIX PLAYER CITIES!!!!


There has to be other changes made... not just "If you don't log in X time.. you lose citizenship"


this about this....


1. The Devs want to remove the "trial account citizens" no problem... remove the citizen if their account is not ACTIVE... I have no problem with that...


2. Our city is level 4..... we work hard on it.. we recruit many live players... lately we haven't seen them.. but we recruited them... as long they pay their maint on houses (non has decay yet) and active account no problem...


3. Devs wants to stop server swap.. this WILL NOT stop it... think about it.. if I have to log in 10minutes every 3 weeks... I can do that on any server.. so some survey for 10 minues and log out.. bam... nothing changes... sure a little extra time spent... but the server swap cities will be the only cities that will be able to keep...


Live citizens are a different matter.... out of 80 we have... I can say 40-50 are "active" as in playing more than 3 hours a day... give or take.... but if the rules kick in.. we might lose more than that cause some players are THAT casual.




Sasheria Windsong

Master Artisian and Master Architect
Drop off Vendor Cynthia: -4752 -4341
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Citizen of Blood Gulch, Dantooine
Scoooter
Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:50 am
#100

A lot seems to be in the interpretation of inactive vs casual.


Personall with all that neeeds to be done, all you have to do I don't see how a person that cannot even log in once every 3-6 weeks would be considered anything but inactive. Although you would have to get data from SOE I would think the "causal" gamers are those that log in just on weekends.


One thing that was mentioned earlier was possibly being able to place the account in vacation mode to handle extended vacations and deployments..etc. And automatically unflags when they log in. That is something you couold propose also.


Now youy have40-50 out of 80 that play 3 hours a day. Now many more log in at least once every 3 weeks. I bet the impact in your case is not as bad as you are fearing.


It does not look to me that this was ever intended to solve the server swap issues. Although it might affect some of that I do not see how they could have thought that this would solve that. It is real obvious that it will not.




Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine, Valcyn
Lochar
Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:21 pm
#101

In a way I agree, but on the other hand


I vote disagreement



My reason being cities are a sore point with us, as for 1 we made our city within a month of release but because we didnt put next to a NPC city we didnt make the top 10 drops of first release. Now we are capped at lvl 3 because of this and we have most of our players online so maybe this will give us a lvl 4 slot which we wanted to begin with.


Until caps are relaxed then I am in agreement for this as some towns are using citizens that havent been in game for months. Its not hard to login for 5 minutes once every 3 weeks, and if not are you trully playing the game?





Mathiasf
Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:37 pm
#102

This is a bad idea I just went through a divorce and the **edit** had me kicked out so I had to find a new place to live and couldnt play for a month so I would havehad my citizen ship taken away from me for not being able to play for 4 weeks or so.Dont make this change.
Gstomp
Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:47 pm
#103

agree all the way
Mcafeevsd
Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:19 am
#104

I, The undersigned, fully endorse this petition.


Sig:____Static-Wolf ________________Ronnie Stam_______30/01/2004__________


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