Politician Archive
Thread: Thanks to the Devs for the City Ban...
Heruler wrote:and i always thought /citywarn was removed because someone did it to a CSR
i may be wrong but i do remember the SS posted all over the boards
I think that was why it was removed so quickly; however, all of the potential issues (griefing, POI blocking, etc.) were well expected by the community, and the Dev team at the time feigned "Huh? We never saw this coming - I swear!"
It was never going to stay in the first place - which is why they didn't put any effort into actually fixing it, they just wrote it off after a few weeks.
I am sure I have that SS somewhere - it's classic. Honestly the funniest thing I have ever seen in SWG - ever. And I wasn't even there, LOL.
AO
I agree with the original poster on this. Protecting a citizen is a mayors right. A BH actually has to stalk a player out in the galaxy , what are the odds. Which is greifing , kicking a BH out of the city for trying to harm a citizen , or someone getting ganked at thier doorstep. A player needs to be safe somewhere. Whats the use of having your own property and a city if you cant defend it. A player expects to be able to go into a city and kill a citizen and not have concequences , I dont think so. On the flip side the BH may say that what they are doing is not only part of the game, but the role of thier profession in the game. Uhmm, they have to leave the city sometime , use those little droids you have and follow them , duh. He or she is a jedi , they must grind and to do so they must leave the safety of the city. Heaven forbid a BH has to actually stalk someone instead of waiting on thier doorstep. Granted not all BH's do this some do stalk a player out in the wild. There you go , a work around.
It is very possible it could be abused , but as far as my experience has went , I earned my bans. I got banned because myself along with various groups walked into the city and started killing people and picked a fight. I am not welcomed in the city because of my actions and it is up to the citizens to forgive me. Oh well, time to end this rant. Just my opinion.
Message Edited by Pirassi on 06-30-2005 08:35 AM
Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-30-2005 08:51 AM
Thunderheart wrote:
Blimigerite wrote:
Jilea wrote:
So let me be clear and ensure I understand this. Thunderheart you said previously that player cities could be used to deny people content if they were built close to said content but in this recent patch the ability to shuttle to these cities was cutoff right? Is this not the same as what you are preventing. If it is not then why were you waging the previous argument 3 weeks ago?
There is a subtle difference. Not being able to shuttle only adds a delay to the content. Players can still go to the city via swoop bike. But citywarn allowed the local militia to kill other players and thus keeping them out of the city indefinitely as long as there were enough militia members to get the job done.
Blimigerite is correct.
Sorry, but he is not correct. My city (that I am paying for) is not your content. Player Cities are content ONLY to those players that are part of the city. NPC cities are content for all.
If the problemis cities that are resticting access to POI's then fix that issue (by not allowing cities to be place near POIs), not the ability to use /citywarn. You guys keep "fixing" the symptoms and not the problem. Similar to removing turrets from PvP bases rather then just changing the turrets to only attack (and be attacked) by PvP players.
The big issue that always confuses meis the howSoE considers things that I am paying a significant amount of game credits on (900k a week to run my city) as "other people's" content?
Player Cities are not "public content", that is what NPC cities are for. We should have the freedom to do as we please in the city we are paying for. Outsiders (non-citizens) pay nothing and contribute nothing to player cities, so why doesSoE feel they have a "right" to use them? Are we no longer going to be able to make houses "private" because it restricts other people's content because they cannot enter them even though they pay nothing to use it?
If you are going to FORCE players to provide and use thier city (that we are paying for) as unrestricted game content to non members, then we should have the RIGHT to tax them for entering the city and using the content that we created.
Otherwise, I should be able to restrict whomever I want because I am paying for it. Just like I can restict whomever I want from my house.
Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-30-2005 08:54 AM
Heruler wrote:and i always thought /citywarn was removed because someone did it to a CSR
i may be wrong but i do remember the SS posted all over the boards
LMAO !!
Yeah, that was MALAS on Radiant:-P
Anyway, it was just SHOWING what citywarn "could" do, that it WAS an exploit:-P
NihiMetal wrote:I'm just wondering because as "Mayor" I have VERY limited power. I cannot remove citizens from my city, I cannot ban citizens from my city, I cannot remodel my city without every player having to go through the pain of storeing everything, and soon you will be condeming a ton of buildings that will make re-designing a city impossible. All a Mayor can do is place a structure and ban an outsider from using a few structures, which by the way is exactly what Milita can do.
At what point, if any, does a Mayor get some useful privlidge or special that allows them to do soemthing that Militia cannot?
I am absolutely with you, that is such a long and endless debate in the politic forums.
I think the politic-top5 is older then some Devs are even :-P
One the one hand, the Devs are complaining about/arguing with "lag due to dead structures etc", on the other hand it is forced.
Whole guilds are moving to diff. planets only because the city layout was so clustered and not fixable due to retired players.
And a mayor toon has even no way of getting info of WHO a stinking tent belongs to ? HILLARIOUS !
A mayor is the "city operating toon".
In RL, if i (as a mayor) dont want a abondened house, i call my bulldozer gang and 10 minutes later we have no issue anymore.
In this game, we have lag-causing ghostcitys all over the place, only because a mayor is a tag-wearing clown who is "allowed" to bring up the citymaintanance.
Funny...well, go on fixing our candles (by deleting them)...
AudioOrgana wrote: (snip)
The answer is, they didn't want to fix it; they didn't try. For some reason there is a segment of the population who has some huge issue with a PC killing them vs. an NPC (even though the former actually has less in-game consequences). Personally I could care less what is controlling a graphic, but that's just me.
There *is* a segment of the population that has a huge issue with anything resembling forced PvP (which /citywarn was)...and a much larger segment of the population than those who could care less. Just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean that it doesn't affect someone else in a profound way (whether you understand the reasoning or not). Forcing someone into any kind of situation is Not A Good Thing.
AudioOrgana wrote: (snip)
As to the /cityshield, I don't see how this is a "techno nightmare" as it already exists in game in the form of house banlists and things like Aurillia. A barrier is put up, and if you are banned, you can't enter. That simple. If a POI falls within the city, don't allow that barrier to deny access to it. If the city is truly built ON a POI (which was a programming mistake to begin with) as in it's smack dab in the city (any examples of it being THIS extreme?) then again, tough cookies city, you don't get this feature.
It's a "techno nightmare" because of the sheer amount of checks the system would have to go through to determine which cities included POIs and were ineligible and which ones didn't. While it *was* a mistake to have allowed Player Cities to be built around POIs, it's a little difficult to change it now. Telling them "too bad" just isn't going to cut it.
Mayors need a way to protect their city from undesireable elements and enforce their laws, but /citywarn isn't the way to do it. We're creating public communities with Player Cities, not private estates.
Pirassi wrote: (snip)
Heres an idea. Mayors set laws in thier cities right? Each one is governed differently. How about allowing mayors to set laws. Such as if a city is a neutral city that doesnt allow pvp. Allow them to set a law stating no pvp and then the city limits would be a no pvp zone. As soon as a spec ops player enters the city they are non attackable and such or not allowed in at all and a message flashed across the screen stating why. And actually having a list of the laws popping up when entering a city. Mayors being able to pick laws from a preset list. And well use your imagination for the rest. And factional cities should have thier npcs on patrol, but thats another topic. Go into someones city , abide by thier rules, it is thier property after all.
Mayors actually *do* have the right to tax non-citizens for using their city services. Shuttle fees, garage fees...sales tax if it worked. The system itself is there, it just needs to be fixed and expanded.
NihiMetal wrote: (snip)
If you are going to FORCE players to provide and use thier city (that we are paying for) as unrestricted game content to non members, then we should have the RIGHT to tax them for entering the city and using the content that we created.
Swg-Addict wrote:
I dont agree with this at all..If you wana ban the BH from useing City things or Keep him outs buildings thats your right..It isnt your right to threat'n to report someone for doing there Job..yes, the BH could have acted better but, if the Jedi is there he has a right to be there...
...which is the masterquestion!
Lets see it in a way of reallife:
We have laws
We have cities
We have the administrative in charge for the very local city laws.
I am a mayor, so i am the administrative of my city.
My city has a simple law:
Be nice, dont hurt any of my citizens.
Your argument is "they are doing their job".
But...you lost TOTALLY out of sight, that their job is a CRIME !
A BH is no "official", a BH is a "secretly hired" professional killer stalking his mark - which is a member of my city.
If see a "criminal" (BH in this case) trying to get his "job" done in my city, i ban him.
Be overt, and you get even killed instantly for "being a treat to my city".
What does the police do in real life, when some1 is trying to kill some1 else ?
Right, they will open fire on you after warning.
I am the police, my millit is the citys police.
I cant see griefing here.
But i DO see griefing in BH Level 80, stalking low level Paddys. Or BH ganks stalking a mark 5:1.
Its not your fault tho, this is something which needs to be adressed by the Devs, "removing the hatress from the game".
FYI:
I am a BH and Jedi myself, i know both sides and i do understand both sides.
Thats why i say "There is no balance, one side will always complain".
Remove the "old relict" of XP loss for Jedis from the game (old relict cuz it was brought in to prevent a Jedi overpopulation, which has failed as we all can see, so this "intrument" is outdated).
Jedis dont care cloning (make sure your insurance is up to date), but i consider it "griefing" by "manipulating" the grindprocess of a paying player due to other players (note plz that both pay the same ammount/fee).
My 0.02....
Ah but here's where you're wrong. Yes you are Mayor of your town, but you still have to abide by "state" law, and the states have to abide by "Federal" law. According to "Federal" law (The Empire) being a Jedi is against the law. The Empire has offered a reward for a criminal and Bounty Hunter is trying to bring a ciminal to justice. The police would be helping the BH not trying to stop him. This is just as it is IRL. We have Real Life bounty hunters that go after criminals that have a reward for capure.
I see the OP is totally wrong. From the story it sounds like the BH was role-playing. Picture the scene: Boba Fett drives into town on his "hog". He get's off looks around a bit. Some official comes up to him "Can I help you"
How many of you picture Boba Fett saying "Yes please ma'ma. You see I'm trying to bring this mean jedi to justice and claim my reward. I do hope you understand"
I see him turning his head to the official, and then carrying on with his task. When he was banned, he said he was going to kill you both, obviously he knew he coudln't kill anyone that didn't want to PvP and this statement fits exactly what a BH would say. The OP laughing and breaking character doesn't mean the BH was an "immature kid" maybe he was just role-playing his character, something the OP certainly wasn't doing.
Khristen wrote:
Mayors need a way to protect their city from undesireable elements and enforce their laws, but /citywarn isn't the way to do it. We're creating public communities with Player Cities, not private estates.
It's an absolute shame that yousee it this way. Player Cities are not paid for by the public, they are not maintained by the public, they are not designed by the public, they are not orginized by the public.
So why is it that I (as a player) am being force to provide other players content that they are not contribuitng to? If Player Cities are for "public use" what the heck are NPC cities for?
Players Cities are for private use and that useshould limited to those thatpay to maintain and operate the city! If you choose to have your city be open to the public, then you have that right. But if you choose to restrict certain people from your city, then you should have that right. Unless you are going to allow me to charge people for visiting my (forced) "public" city or stop forcing me to spend > 900k a week to provide others with free content, then don't tell me it is public when private people are paying for it and creating it!
And by "charging people" I am not talking about the worthless $200 a shuttle fee. I am talking about the "taxes" that citizens have to pay, the maintaince fees that citizens have to pay that maintain the city!.
"Sale tax" getting fixed only helps those cities that operate to the Public, but my city does not operate that way and I should not be forced to. Not every city if a MALL for crafters to pawn their stuff off in one easy place!
Most of the Players Cites are a collect of Guilds that came together to develop a city that is based on thier comment interests and faction. We don't want rival Faction members running around out city. It is not right to limit OUR content for something that we created, just so that people who do nothing to create it or keep it can have free access to whatever they want whenever they want.
Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-30-2005 10:13 AM