Politician Archive
Thread: Thanks to the Devs for the City Ban...
Cryogenetic wrote:well as being mayor and leader of my guild and city...one thing i would like back into game is the militia tefs.....i have a jedi alt, and run missions from my city, i have some fine militia in my guild but they feel totally helpless when a bh or '2' come.
This wouldnt just go for jedi too, but if i go Special Forces, and get attacked in my city by a special forces rebel then my militia should be able to defend their city and defend me.
Is there any plans to bring this back or is this a definite no no?
I agree Cryogenetic here. I run a Large Active Guild and City on my Server and I truly believe the citizens of my city should be protected with in my city. By not allowing Militia Tefs to Override the Jedi/BH tef. It forces my Guild and Citizens to watch a friend me killed while their hands are tied. By Allowing the Militia Tef to override the Jedi/BH tef, it will force BH to either find their pray outside the Jedi's city of residents or chance a mobs retribution for attacking someone in the middle of several people. The Current Rules just lead to hard feelings on all side.
The old rules did too.
SmithingWeapons wrote:
I agree Cryogenetic here. I run a Large Active Guild and City on my Server and I truly believe the citizens of my city should be protected with in my city. By not allowing Militia Tefs to Override the Jedi/BH tef. It forces my Guild and Citizens to watch a friend me killed while their hands are tied. By Allowing the Militia Tef to override the Jedi/BH tef, it will force BH to either find their pray outside the Jedi's city of residents or chance a mobs retribution for attacking someone in the middle of several people. The Current Rules just lead to hard feelings on all side.
I have seen 2 player cities on Bloodfin built around POI's. One is the Gungan vs Imperial battle, and another is the Downed Jawa Sandcrawler.
What would happen if these cities banned someone from their city? No content.
Khristen wrote:
UnBanCire wrote:
Can't /cityban just make that player unable to enter the city completely? Sort of like not being able to enter the village untill an Old Man visit?
Doing that creates the same type of issue that we had with /citywarn. You essentially prevent people from accessing POI content with this (in a city built around a POI). I would also imagine this would be a technological nightmare.
The whole "keeping people from content" thing is just an excuse - that's not why /citywarn was taken away.
You could very easiliy get around that by either 1) making it so that if a POI falls within your city limits /citywarn doesn't work (tough cookies for the city - you shouldn't have built up around a POI), or 2) making a bubble around the POI so you can go around the city if need be and reach a POI safely - which isn't much different than denying use of shuttles and making you go "the long way" here.
The answer is, they didn't want to fix it; they didn't try. For some reason there is a segment of the population who has some huge issue with a PC killing them vs. an NPC (even though the former actually has less in-game consequences). Personally I could care less what is controlling a graphic, but that's just me.
If they didn't forsee the issues /citywarn created in it's very brief appearance, they had a severe issue - not to mention didn't read the boards since this all was predicted to a T. I had hoped they were going to say "tough" to people who cried about it because the ability to remove people from our cities is very necessary to keeping citizens happy and part of the city. Cities offer so few game mechanic advantages to people aside from shuttleports making transport easier, and the inability to protect a city from unwanted people makes a city not much different from a non-city outside of an NPC city.
It's never going to happen now - the game has gone so far away from the original ideals of creating a "realistic" enviornment where actions have consequences - but let's not pretend what happened with /citywarn was unexpected nor had anything to do with POI's. That was a convenient excuse that could have been addressed; they knew before they ever put it in game it wasn't going to last.
As to the /cityshield, I don't see how this is a "techno nightmare" as it already exists in game in the form of house banlists and things like Aurillia. A barrier is put up, and if you are banned, you can't enter. That simple. If a POI falls within the city, don't allow that barrier to deny access to it. If the city is truly built ON a POI (which was a programming mistake to begin with) as in it's smack dab in the city (any examples of it being THIS extreme?) then again, tough cookies city, you don't get this feature.
There are many ways to do it, and give us some control over cities besides just sucking money out of our bank accounts. We should be able to protect our citizens and make our cities into actual cities with protection and services. I've always maintained that I don't care how it is done - either through players in a milita or through NPC "GUARDS!" like in UO to appease those who complain about PvP - but people in this game need some way to keep annoyances out of their city - as long as they don't prevent people from accessing POI's.
At least whomever coded the system in the first place can rest well knowing they were responsible for the most entertaining thing to happen EVER in SWG - when the CSR got spanked after he was /warned and was spouting and ranting, LOL. Hopefully, if by some miracle they ever do fix up city security, they will remember to set immunity for CSR's.
AO
DayWalkerRori wrote:
RynnnDraggon wrote:
I asked to leave or be reported for camping our town. He finally left.
I dont agree with this at all..If you wana ban the BH from useing City things or Keep him outs buildings thats your right..It isnt your right to threat'n to report someone for doing there Job..yes, the BH could have acted better but, if the Jedi is there he has a right to be there...
...which is the masterquestion!
Lets see it in a way of reallife:
We have laws
We have cities
We have the administrative in charge for the very local city laws.
I am a mayor, so i am the administrative of my city.
My city has a simple law:
Be nice, dont hurt any of my citizens.
Your argument is "they are doing their job".
But...you lost TOTALLY out of sight, that their job is a CRIME !
A BH is no "official", a BH is a "secretly hired" professional killer stalking his mark - which is a member of my city.
If see a "criminal" (BH in this case) trying to get his "job" done in my city, i ban him.
Be overt, and you get even killed instantly for "being a treat to my city".
What does the police do in real life, when some1 is trying to kill some1 else ?
Right, they will open fire on you after warning.
I am the police, my millit is the citys police.
I cant see griefing here.
But i DO see griefing in BH Level 80, stalking low level Paddys. Or BH ganks stalking a mark 5:1.
Its not your fault tho, this is something which needs to be adressed by the Devs, "removing the hatress from the game".
FYI:
I am a BH and Jedi myself, i know both sides and i do understand both sides.
Thats why i say "There is no balance, one side will always complain".
Remove the "old relict" of XP loss for Jedis from the game (old relict cuz it was brought in to prevent a Jedi overpopulation, which has failed as we all can see, so this "intrument" is outdated).
Jedis dont care cloning (make sure your insurance is up to date), but i consider it "griefing" by "manipulating" the grindprocess of a paying player due to other players (note plz that both pay the same ammount/fee).
My 0.02....
/citywarn
was removed because it was a terrible exploit:
Whoever was citywarned, became attackable by the millit within the cityboarders.
The exploit was: If i dont like someones nose, i citywarn him followed by an instant attack, followed by a deathblow.
I totally agree, it is an exploit (Exploit=unitended use of a gamemechanism).
Tho it was fun:-P
and i always thought /citywarn was removed because someone did it to a CSR
i may be wrong but i do remember the SS posted all over the boards
if that is right can we PLEASE get rid of the pve bases!!!!! they serve no real purpose other than cluttering the server with lag.
Thunderheart wrote:
Khristen wrote:
Part of the problem with terraforming, be it leveling or adding texture to it, is the huge amount of lag it creates. For something as permanent as a city or a structure it would be a nightmare. Camps can do it because it is a very temporary thing and doesn't create a permanent lag pocket by it's existence. For those with less-than-optimal machines, it becomes very easy to tell when you're coming up on an NPC spawn or a GCW base....your graphics hiccup when you enter the flattened terrain as your machine struggles to bring the rest of the art onto your screen. From my experience the game loads the regular terrain, then the modified/flattened terrain, then the basic artwork for the base/spawn, followed by the actual NPCs.
NPC cities can get away with it because they're hard coded into the terrain. There isn't any "modified" terrain layer to bring up since the streets and buildings themselves are part of the terrain.
Thats exactly right Khristen!
Thunderheart wrote:
OptAEON is correct. As much as it offered a City Mayor a great option for running their city, the command was sorely abused. The primary reason it was removed from the game was because rogue mayors were using /citywarn to block off content to control spawns and prevent other players from getting to the content.
As far as why a person would use /cityban? It is a mayor's prerogative - - that is one of the decisions they make that creates the rules or "local laws" of their city. If you want to disallow Jedi hunting, then so be it. If a different mayor wants to allow it, then that is their choice.
Topic 1
I don't really want to get into an arguement with you TH, but I'm a little confused as it appears these comments conflict. How is it acceptable to "withhold content" by banning someone but considered unacceptable to use /citywarn?
I am not sure how /citywarn could have been used to "control" spawns. Seems like an easy fix would have been to restrict building things around POIs (little shot sighted there) or at least change it so thatCity Halls cannot be placedwithin 1,000m of a POI, then the issus is solve without removing a needed option (/citywarn)
There were some cases where cities would use /citywarn to defend thier city fromannoying players and on occasion would just use it to attack others, but those cities were quickly identified and easly avoided. Why could you not just add a timer to /citywarn that gives the individual 60 seconds to get out of town before "they get what's coming to them"
Topic 2
I'm just wondering because as "Mayor" I have VERY limited power. I cannot remove citizens from my city, I cannot ban citizens from my city, I cannot remodel my city without every player having to go through the pain of storeing everything, and soon you will be condeming a ton of buildings that will make re-designing a city impossible. All a Mayor can do is place a structure and ban an outsider from using a few structures, which by the way is exactly what Milita can do.
At what point, if any, does a Mayor get some useful privlidge or special that allows them to do soemthing that Militia cannot?
Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-30-2005 08:49 AM
DayWalkerRori wrote:
RynnnDraggon wrote:
I asked to leave or be reported for camping our town. He finally left.
I dont agree with this at all..If you wana ban the BH from useing City things or Keep him outs buildings thats your right..It isnt your right to threat'n to report someone for doing there Job..yes, the BH could have acted better but, if the Jedi is there he has a right to be there...
No sorry, maybe you really Need to read the entire thread. It IS My Right to ask anyone to leave that is trying to get into other players houses, and attack and harass ANY of my guild members and citizens.
He had NO right there because he was threatning me, and also was going to Camp out in my city, to wait for the Jedi to come out.
I even have ThunderHeart backing me on this. I don't Do Threats, nor do I deal with punks like that kid.
He was going to camp out my town, and I will NOT allow this at all. I don't want Unwanted people sitting on my City Hall slinging crap talk at my citizens.
It's like if someone you didn't know that was acting rudely to your family and threatning you and yours and sitting on your doorstep to your house...
I doubt you would just allow them to be there and you wouldn't be saying..."They have a Right to be there..."
Maybe you could care less about your city and citizens, But I for one Care a great deal about mine.
I want to Thank everyone that backed me on this and say that I firmly Believe in Protecting those that are in my Guild and City to No end.
Swg-Addict wrote:
PS.:
/citywarn
was removed because it was a terrible exploit:
Whoever was citywarned, became attackable by the millit within the cityboarders.
The exploit was: If i dont like someones nose, i citywarn him followed by an instant attack, followed by a deathblow.
I totally agree, it is an exploit (Exploit=unitended use of a gamemechanism).
Tho it was fun:-P
There was a timer associated with it; many of us also suggested that timer be longer - say, five minutes.
When you are /warned you get five minutes to vacate the city and not return. If you choose to return in the future, you will be open for attack.
If that person choose not to leave, it was their own problem.
AO