Politician Archive

Thread: CSR almost closed my account. Is this fair?

jemelby
Mon May 17, 2004 10:56 am
#14

City-Planning-Griefing: What a great sport.


You hear about a town that looks great, and is really growing. That really chaps your butt. You can't stand to see someone else succeed.


You take a trip to the town and realize it is truely beautiful. A jewel in the wilderness. Your breath is taken away by the intricate layout, and meticulous attention to detail... AND IT CHAPS YOUR BUTT!


You check the city terminal and discover that it is soon to expand to level 5. This is PERFECT! A rare opportunity to be a real horses A--. You cruise around the outskirts of town looking for the perfect location. You find a spot that is obviousely desined to be the site of a cluster of gardens, based on the pattern of the city. YOU HATE GARDENS! So, despite the fact that the rest of the city is pure Coruscant Architecture, you plop a generic PA hall right on the edge of town and name it "Welcome to the Stink-hole. No Pukey Gardens Allowed."


In a few days time, the PA hall is swalloed by the city. You are approached by the mayor and politly asked about the PA hall. This is what it was all building too. You get to tell the mayor what a crap town he has, and you delight as he wanders off without having any effect on you.


When you are approached by the CSR, you simply lie and tell the CSR how much you've always wanted a PA hall right here, and that you have no idea what the mayors beef is. The CSR rightfully concludes that you have every right to have your PA hall there, and it remains as a wart on the face of an otherwise beautifull city.


This has been a fine piece of historical fiction. It has been altered only slightly to maintain the annonymity of those involved


I managed to avoid this senario when designing Mos O. We kept the town pretty hush, and it was in an out-of-the-way corner of Tat. We didn't give anyone reason to come sniffing around. We did not register the city untill it was a metro. We grew to level 5 in the very briefest time possible, and had the level 5 metro borders locked down before anyone thought to grief us.




J'Vee
Mos Onarok, Tatooine - Flurry


Sorak20
Mon May 17, 2004 6:21 pm
#15

Although I think Zentragon handled the matter rather poorly with the whole blocking thing, sounds like a silly move made without thinking he probably regreted later, I have to say if some spotty little oik ruined all my hard work and planning to create something great like a well planned city, I would be furious.


Mayors SHOULD have the power to evict people from cities even if they were there before. If you are placing a house anywhere near a city you are well aware you are entering a community, cities don't just spring up on your doorstep overnight. If you want to be part of a community then you are accepting certain restrictions and responisbilites by default. The mayor is a democratically elected representative of the community in general, if he starts going crazy or the people are unhappy with him then he can always be voted out.


In the case of this 13 year old he had obviously no intentions of joining the community and have no doubt he just wanted to poach off any benefits. If he wants to be a loner and non-conformist then great, he can build his house anywhere he likes out there in the wilderness, it's not like there is a shortage of space. In an idea world the mayor and town should have had a vote as to wether to evict him, should have then approached SOE and they should have forcibly removed his house after a suitable moving period as someone suggested. As I say this would have only happened in an ideal world since SOE would have probably just ignored them like they do 90% of the things in this game.


Griefing is not the answer it just reduces you to the level of this silly child that placed the house. I strongly sympathise with Zentragon. Something should be done to stop individuals ruining the work of communities, as I said above, if you don't want to conform to a communities rules you can always move your house to somewhere in the wilderness, nothings stopping you.





Sadirra Ageis - Loot Hunter and Riflegal ---
MournsForTrees - Armorsmith and Merchant

Fusion Store: Bestine -1171, -4836

Image is Everything
Kerico
Mon May 17, 2004 6:33 pm
#16

My city is not 'mine'. You don't own your city either.
GanXingba
Mon May 17, 2004 10:01 pm
#17

First off, lay off thismayor, guys. Sure, blocking off the structure was probobly dumb, but don't act like he's being some big bully, he is just enforcing his cities rules as his executive office should allow him to do.


Moving on, I think I have a solution. You said the kid was 13 right? Well, perhaps he is new and doesn't understand the situation? You should do your best to explain it to him in a detailed and polite manner, and then come to some sort of agreement. I suggest you pay him a decent sum to pack up his house. You could also offer him a replacement house (naboo style of course) and welcome him back into the city. Then you could ask him to go to the CSRs and clear both your names.


If he refuses to reason, then you have no choice but to beg to the CSRs. Good luck with this.





"I got news for you pal, you aint leading but two things: Jack and S**t, and Jack just left town."
-Ash 'Army of Darkness'

Kryle Swordstrider of Valcyn: a member of the Seven Deadly Sins
Saabotage
Mon May 17, 2004 10:19 pm
#18

Why don't you ban him and then send him an email, explaining the services the city has to offer :-P in a nice way..... Politicians SHOULD BEdiplomatic your politicians for Gods sake!



br>I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much Liberty then to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson 1791
Smugglie = Smuggler + Lie
Liberty Or Death
ArythBandar
Tue May 18, 2004 1:20 am
#19






GanXingba wrote:

First off, lay off thismayor, guys. Sure, blocking off the structure was probobly dumb, but don't act like he's being some big bully, he is just enforcing his cities rules as his executive office should allow him to do.


Moving on, I think I have a solution. You said the kid was 13 right? Well, perhaps he is new and doesn't understand the situation? You should do your best to explain it to him in a detailed and polite manner, and then come to some sort of agreement. I suggest you pay him a decent sum to pack up his house. You could also offer him a replacement house (naboo style of course) and welcome him back into the city. Then you could ask him to go to the CSRs and clear both your names.


If he refuses to reason, then you have no choice but to beg to the CSRs. Good luck with this.









/agree


Offer to trade him a Naboo style house for his old house and to place it for him (to fit your city concept). Also, if he has already payed maintanence on his home find out how much and pay him what is left over.


And remember, CSRs are like the boogie man; they stay hidden and won't come out when you want them to. They only come out at night, when you're not looking, to scare the crap out of you.

Fidgiter
Tue May 18, 2004 5:09 am
#20

I can fully appreciate Zert's frustration but unfortunately do think the CSR was right to issue the warning. CSR follow rigid rules about what is and what isn't appropriate and blocking of a player structure is on the not appropriate list. The frustration is that there is no right or recourse for a Mayor as the "rights" of an individual trump the rights of the Mayor who is the duely elected representative of the population of the city.


The Mayor lacks the rights and authority to manage their city effectively and SOE regards the individual property rights to be absolute without regard to the community property rights. The GROUND of the city is the property ofits residents and the Mayor is their steward. What is overlooked is the fact that all the other players in the city can and are punished because the needs of the one outweight the needs of the many.


The Mayor should be able to move any structure within city limits. The owner of that structure would get an email saying what the new location is. If the Mayor abuses this authority the citizens can vote him out of office. End of story.


This is not only important for the type of situation Zert experienced but also for "Defragmenting" the city as it grows. In the beginning you have this tiny area to work with and people want to upgrade houses as time goes on. They want their storage houses and maybe their factories all grouped. Short of having folks juggle their stuff in some contorted ballet it can't be done.


Mayor Feliz Gizmacher, Master Fidg'Ter Gizmacher




Mayor Feliz, RSO Commanding Officer
FidgitCo Construction, Droid and Starships
Furnishing the Galaxy since September 2003
Dune Retreat Mall, Tatooine
Refah
Tue May 18, 2004 5:33 am
#21

It is completly clear for every mayor I think, that we (the mayors) need an official way to get rid of

1. Players that try to block the development of a city with placing a structure near the borders
2. structures of inactive players in town
3. Citizens who start riots against all the others

I had no problems with player coming in town with a city grow.
But maybe I can have problems with citizens who do not follow my instructions. We are a neutral city and there are no fac scanners allowed. But what shall I do when someone places a scanner?

The thread starter has choosen one possibility to do something for what we should have settings from the system...





Refah Deon, Heaven/Tatooine (Chimaera)
Visit Heaven at -525 4070 near Mos Entha
www.heaven-city.ne
All ressources for 2cpu vendor in mall
Rorenikibi
Tue May 18, 2004 7:16 am
#22

We need citywarn back.


If a player pulled that kind of stunt, he'd be wandering around with a permaTEF for my militia.


THAT is the kind of thing that Citywarn was intended to do. It was an enforcement tool for the city administration.


Maybe a city is not owned by anyone, but its sure as hell RUN by people who are there because the citizens PUT them there with the intention that they would represent and enforce their wishes.


Mayors may not own a city, but that doesn't mean they should be powerless to run it as they see fit until they are elected out.


RL, you violate a city's zoning ordnances and you're ass is in court, and grandfathering isn't always a valid defense.






Captain Janu Hull CFA-7
In the event of an emergency, this pilot's ego may be used as a floatation device.


Balin76
Tue May 18, 2004 7:46 am
#23


When we placed BarterTown, we did so in such a manner to avoid as much "claim jumping" as possible. There were a couple of areas that we were looking at, and one have 2 houses, and one had about 15. So, we took the location that only had 2 houses. There were also a number of mineral harvestors and a solar harv. Almost immediately after dropping the city hall, I got a tell from the owner of most of the mineral harvestors asking about tax rates and such. Filled him in on that, and then went looking for the two houses. (Can I say how much I LOVE getting the email that includes owner name?!) Since I had that information, I was able to add the two house owners to my friends list, so that when they came on-line I could introduce myself and welcome them to town. I was also able to track down the owner of the Solar. It was, for us, in a very poor spot. When I saw him online, he was on his way out to check it. I asked him if it would be possible to move it, just a little, and he pulled it. I think the solar run was near expiration anyway, and I gave him a gift for his troubles.


What I'd probably do, is attempt to talk to the kid. Explain some of the benefits that he'll get, and place a naboo for him, and offer it to him, along with some sort of bribe. Perhaps if you let him think that he's getting the better of you, you'll get what you want. (No, probably not the best way, but 13yo's aren't always rational.) Then you both can chat with a CSR and see about getting things cleared, although I can see them not wanting to do that. I would suggest being on your best behavior for a good while, though, just in case.


Good luck.


Kothmia




Kothmia Autry, Mayor of BarterTown
Former Leader - Kaiburr Enterprises
Kiom
Tue May 18, 2004 9:35 am
#24

You people act like you own the city. You don't! You can control placement within your city, but if you grow then you accept whatever is within your new limits.


Blocking his door, bad. Acting like you or your guild own the city, worse. Cities are public. They are cities after all, not your private fort. Can you imagine the mayorin your town saying "sorry, you aren't a member of our club (or we just don't like you) so we have destroyed your house".






Monroe Glesn - Distant cousin of Kiom
Master Tailor
Plagvreugd
Tue May 18, 2004 9:36 am
#25

I think what this mayor has done isn't the course of action I would have taken in his stead, and the comments by someone (sorry, to lazy to go back and check the name) about that the land around a city is not owned by the city is certainly valid, it can be a bit sour for cities when you try your best to achieve a certain look and feel, and because of your success you pull in things into your city you don't want in. I don't know how best to work around this problem, I once wrote a lengthy story I called the "concept of land" on the Infinity galaxy forum about an idea on the subject but as it didn't get much reply there I won't bother with typing it again.


I was thinking though, that if you don't want other houses or whateveris just outside your city's perimeter, you should be able to keep them out. Maybe it would be nice if enlargement of the city's radius was optional not default. Just a thought.



Thewt
Chibi-Bar
Tue May 18, 2004 11:03 am
#26

sadly.... we have some of our citizens move outside our zone (thus reducing our level) and just camp at the border. I have several players just camp at the border of our city and reap the benefits.




Sasheria Windsong

Master Artisian and Master Architect
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