Politician Archive
Thread: Politician and the GCW: a focus thread (closed)
Ok - let's try it with colors again
On leaving time for voting the top 5, or on you picking them – I rather have enough time to discuss the points in detail (which is kind of voting and giving ratings) and then let you pick the 5 at the last second – you being the politician correspondent after all. We are working on a tight schedule here, and looking at past votes, the need at least a week to get the amount of response to actually be representative.
0. Neutral cities are not to have disadvantages to factional cities (no economical advantages for factional cities – sole purpose is to give them more options in the GCW – not in the economy)
1. PCs have the option to declare to a faction, but only if …
a) … they have at least parts of a faction base (or similar factional building) of said faction in the city radius – this shows the commitment of the city to really participate in the GCW – and also provides the recruiter everybody wants
b) … the mayor has a certain rank in said faction – so the mayor him-/herself has to be part of the GCW
c) … it costs a certain amount of FP to gain and retain this status – which also means the city needs a FP account where donations can be paid into (taxes probably won’t work, since even in faction cities only a percentage will be collecting FPs and have enough to be taxed)
2. Faction cities are clearly visible on the planetary map and at the ticket terminal – they can chose to enforce the option …
a) to have higher taxes and costs for city services (vehicle repair/cloning/insuring/teaching) for coverts/overts of enemy faction (just a fixed % higher of the figures set for the rest of players – otherwise to many numbers to set and save)
b) to select the specialisation “stronghold”, which will give only overts of the allied faction a bonus to defences
c) to permanently block enemy faction overts from shuttling in/out and both overts/coverts from cloning
3. Militia:
a) the power to grant zone rights will be separately granted by the mayor to special players (like city council)
b) regular militia of a faction city have to be overt to execute their special abilities
c) only militia of the faction city can buy special “ID-checking devices” from the recruiter in the city for a certain amount of FP – with these kits (only limited use) they can scan other players or faction affiliation – Players being scanned get a pop-up warning them – scan result is dependent on the rank of the scanner (the higher the more probable) – rank of the player being scanned (again, the higher the rank the more probable he will be detected) – special abilities (as underground skill tree of smuggler – special counter measures such as a to be included ID+Smuggler created false identity) – highest probability of detecting a covert (and turning him overt) shouldn’t be higher than 80% - time restraints have to be thought of
4. Factional cities can be “liberated” (turned back to neutral – calling of all selected options of factional bonuses) if …
a) … the base(s) on the city ground are all destroyed (I don’t see why a city shouldn’t be able to defend its city more by placing multiple bases)
b) … and the “faction flag” inside the city hall is captured – which can only be done by a militia member of a city of opposing faction, overt, of course (maybe leaving a message who stole the flag so a “capture the flag” style can be introduced here – recapturing the flag in the next 24 hours and setting up a new faction base ends the “liberation” at once)
c) … a “liberated” city has to wait for a new base to be built and one update cycle to declare again (costing FP again)
5. Factional and neutral cities should be able to …
a) … drop a certain amount of items on civic buildings like gardens and shuttle ports (maybe 5 items per small garden, 10 per medium, 15 per large – to be balanced) – factional cities will want to place banners and factional furniture/armor – whereas neutral cities shouldn’t be kept out the loop if they want to set up tables and chairs to sit / public crafting machines …
b) … hire a small force (size and strength depending on rank of city) of NPC guards – of a faction the mayor has at least +2000 faction points for – to patrol the city (so not only give rebs/imps guards, but let “neutral” cities build their own world of hutt domination, dedication to Lady Val, following the words of CorSec or being Rouges …)
c) … let all mission terminals give out missions that can lead to other player cities (also see the point of “Player City Missions” previously stated to be in Publish #9 – I think it was shoved back a bit)
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Comments on other ideas:
I like the idea of ALLIANCES stated by SacredNemesis. Only I ask myself, if messages of overt players crossing boundaries/firing at a turret wouldn’t spam the allies all the time.
- There was the idea of a factional chat where you could call for help – but here some players also had the fear of spam – so maybe you could restrict to be a certain rank to use this faction chat (creating a system message or similar note) – and a message (with restriction in length) would cost a certain amount of FP.
- So maybe allied cities would be able to contact each other through this channel without the faction point cost – and help out scanning for coverts only in allied cities
- If stronghold defence bonus is not granted to every overt of the allied faction – then at least grant this bonus to militia members of allied cities
- I would add that alliances cost a certain amount of FP for these, and maybe other perks, so you have to use them frequently (really work together, and not just sign some piece of paper) to pay less FP in an alliance and have an advantage.
Although popularly demanded, I’m unsure if we should concentrate any effort on anything that might consume “art work” – such as walls and bridges or new faction buildings such as barracks etc. As nice as these items would be, the devs have stated that the art department is totally full with work until Jump to Lightspeed is released.
I liked the “Methods of attack” presented by aachil in this thread:
1) trade embargo - Obviously setting up vendors near an enemy city to steal their trade would cut their tax revenue and undermine their Crafters ability to raise funds.
2) insurrection - find unhappy citizens and get them to withhold funding, pay them to vandalise stuff, vote against etc.
3) Physical attack - destruction of city factional facilities - this should only be possible once per week
4) corruption - bribe the mayor to sell out his town (best soften him up with 5...)
5) assassination - Player bounties should be possible on a city's special NPCs, fractioned politicians and Smugglers (by a master politician). If a cities NPCs are killed they can simply be replaced by the Mayor but it’s a hassle and could wear down their resolve
What do you think – to far off the strictly combat related GCW or a huge and powerful extension of it, bringing more people into fighting for the factions in their way. This would of course also include the ideas around faction armor being able to be crafted by players by acquiring a deed, being overt, etc.
[edit] - colors finaly added - [/edit]
Message Edited by DaQuilla on 05-22-2004 02:26 AM
Yes you did - only want to point out, that it might be more a pain to always have to turn the system off than to use it constantly
SacredNemesis wrote:
Comments on other ideas:
I like the idea of ALLIANCES stated by SacredNemesis. Only I ask myself, if messages of overt players crossing boundaries/firing at a turret wouldn’t spam the allies all the time.
I believe I suggested the option to turn on/off this notification system.
Before even proposing the top 5, we should try and flush out all inconsistencies or flaws in the proposed systems that could lead the Devs to say "To much risk - to little reward". That's also why I'd want to have more time to actively discuss than to really vote (next to the fact that in 2-3 days you won't get a representative vote anyway - so you can just as well trust in the objectivity of the correspondent
I have the following suggestions regarding the above mentioned ideas and how they can still allow for neutral cities without hampering other cities who choose to remain factioned. I am apologizing in advance if it seems like I am making personal attacks of cutting on someone's ideas. I am not, I assure you, I am simply trying to show both sides of some points, and show my support for the ones I agree with. We were asked to give our opinion, which is what I am doing.
These are the ideas I have seen that I have to disagree with and why:
"Stronghold Bonus is factional."
"I think if there were, in addition to current factional buildings, factional walls and gates that could be placed around cities to help fortify them from attack (perhaps the walls could go around the absolute border of the city? Would have to be manually placed or considerations made if buildings were in the way)"
While I can see the benefit of these for faction cities, what this basically says is that a neutral city has no right to defend itself. Stronghold bonus should be solely reliant on the specialization of the city and the status (rank/size) of the city, not whether or not is chooses to engage a side of the GCW. As for walls and such, these should be added in and of themselves, not just because your city is factioned.
"New tariffs for factions. Have an imperial/rebel tax that checks faction affiliation before adding on the extra % or so to cost. For towns that are rebel but still want a thriving and neutral business district this way you can give a slight message of "you aren't welcome" and also get some more change for the city coffers."
Realism brings this into question for me. Would a mayor really stand at the shuttle and say, "Excuse me, are you a (insert faction here)?" and then charge that person a tariff? Not likely and taking a cue from the crackdown itself, not EVERY rebel or Imperial or person in possession of sliced goods is caught by such a scan. It is assumed that the character who "passes" a scan while actually being a rebel or holding that sliced weapon was able to lie their face off and get away. A covert detection scanner would search biosignatures but not impose a tariff, which is how those work. This is a war, people are not going to come right out and say "Yeah, I'm a rebel, fine me," so having an automatic tariff in place is not very realistic.
"City militia having the chance to attack covert members of opposing factions (must be overt)"
"And I like doc's idea... the only reason opposing faction members should be in your city is to attack really."
"AutoTEF on opposing faction members."
This is what covert detection scanners are for. Some cities that are decidedly factioned that I know of allow members of opposing factions to enter for shopping. Example: I know of an Imperial city that lets rebels in because it helps with the role-play idea that rebels will try to mingle with imps to gain knowledge, very StarWarsy if you ask me. As far as the TEF thing, in a factioned city, perhaps have members of militia be overt while on duty as a standing practice.
"A warning email sent to City residents when a faction base goes vulnerable."
This works great unless you have someone that is neutral living in your city acting as a spy for the opposition, in which case, the opposing side now knows your vulnerability times.
"This thread is meant to be about cities in the GCW. I don't know why we need to worry about Neutral Cities. As I said above the bonus for Neutrals is to not get shot at. To give them a bonus for NOT participating in the GCW as well as the BONUS of not having to worry about what wil be waiting for you when you land declared into the next starport doesn't seem fair to those of us who are factioned. It all depends on how StarWarsy we want to get. You could give Neutral Cities extra benefits to crafters or reduced maintenance cost's for merchants and city buildings but in Star Wars if Vader got off a transport at 11:00 am and was greeted with "Hello I am mayor Neutrality and we are a Neutral City." Mayor Neutrality would be dead and the so called Neutral City would be under Imperial control by 11:05 am."
Contrary to Imperial players' belief, many cities remained neutral throughout the Emperor's reign, including some whole planets. It's in the literature. The developers have only granted us 10 planets to play with and on those worlds, some cities choose to remain neutral. That is the choice of everyone in that city, if it wasn't, those people wouldn't live there. Given this, neutral cities have as much right to an opinion in matters regarding player cities as a whole as any potentially factional aligned city has. Similarly, some cities even have RP reasons for their city's neutrality and use that neutrality as an RP springboard.
"Allow Mayors to declare Alliances with other declared cities of the same faction."
This is part of playing the role of a politician. Go out and schmooze your neighboring cities and set up alliances on your own. If your city is in trouble, know who from the other city you can call on if you need assistance. My city has done this with other cities and it works VERY well.
These are the ideas that I see being beneficial to all cities, regardless of choice of faction or lack thereof.
1) FACTIONAL DECLARATION
When a city is born, the mayor has the ability to decide (or change via the management terminal) the city's factional alignment. The mayor HAS to be the faction the city is being changed to at the time of the change. A message would be added on to the current welcome message when people enter the city. Example: You have entered MyCity (City, Research Center, Neutral).
2) FACTION WIDE BANNING
When a city has been made factioned, the mayor of that city can also choose to immediately ban all members of the opposing faction from using the civic structures of that city.
3) FACTION DECISION RECOGNITION
Just like mayors can choose to have their cities on the planetary map, they can choose to show its faction as well. This will result in the appropriate symbol (or none for neutral) being displayed by the city name on the planetary and travel menu maps, as well as NPCs of the chosen faction would wander around town, or planetary NPCs in neutral cities.
4) PLACEABLE FACTION CITY ITEMS
Mayors are given the option to place factional items to further display their allegiance. Banners could be placed on streetlamps (a new type of streetlamp maybe, with the banner attached), a statue of the Emperor for Imperial cities, a statue of some sort for rebel cities, and a special tree or something for neutral cities.
5) FACTION POINT BANK
Citizens of a factioned city could help accumulate faction points in a central pot, like the treasury, which the mayor would use to buy appropriate bases if desired, which would be placed as civic structures and maintained through the treasury. This would supply the so desired recruiter but also make a city work for its defense instead of just being handed it on a silver platter.
Cendatinea wrote:
These are the ideas I have seen that I have to disagree with and why:
"Stronghold Bonus is factional."
"I think if there were, in addition to current factional buildings, factional walls and gates that could be placed around cities to help fortify them from attack (perhaps the walls could go around the absolute border of the city? Would have to be manually placed or considerations made if buildings were in the way)"
While I can see the benefit of these for faction cities, what this basically says is that a neutral city has no right to defend itself. Stronghold bonus should be solely reliant on the specialization of the city and the status (rank/size) of the city, not whether or not is chooses to engage a side of the GCW. As for walls and such, these should be added in and of themselves, not just because your city is factioned.
You take this the wrong way and opposite of my meaning. An outpost lvl town with a politician who is a novice that just happens to be rebel wouldn't get the stronghold bonus. A metropolis with a master politician who's town just happens to be rebel but crafter devoted and therefore under the specialization of manufacturing center would not get the stronghold bonus. A city with a politician of the appropriate skill level or higher that has the stronghold bonus will get the stronghold bonus. If that city happens to be rebel then every rebel within the radius of the city, on top of every militiaman, will be given the defensive bonus.
"New tariffs for factions. Have an imperial/rebel tax that checks faction affiliation before adding on the extra % or so to cost. For towns that are rebel but still want a thriving and neutral business district this way you can give a slight message of "you aren't welcome" and also get some more change for the city coffers."
Realism brings this into question for me. Would a mayor really stand at the shuttle and say, "Excuse me, are you a (insert faction here)?" and then charge that person a tariff? Not likely and taking a cue from the crackdown itself, not EVERY rebel or Imperial or person in possession of sliced goods is caught by such a scan. It is assumed that the character who "passes" a scan while actually being a rebel or holding that sliced weapon was able to lie their face off and get away. A covert detection scanner would search biosignatures but not impose a tariff, which is how those work. This is a war, people are not going to come right out and say "Yeah, I'm a rebel, fine me," so having an automatic tariff in place is not very realistic.
Well realistically I wouldn't shake hands and trade goods with someone who was shooting at me just 5 minutes ago however in the game that is allowed and actually promoted. TEF's are unrealistic in the face that people have more then a short term memory. Etcetera etcetera. However if you want a roleplaying aspect to approve of this then here you go. Rebel/Imperial spies hacked databanks and found the account numbers of imperial/rebel soldiers. These accounts have been flagged for higher cost no matter who is accessing them. (even though it is only that person who can access it) The proprietor of the account should be under scrutiny but thanks to multiple shareholders being possible they will not be detained.
"City militia having the chance to attack covert members of opposing factions (must be overt)"
"And I like doc's idea... the only reason opposing faction members should be in your city is to attack really."
"AutoTEF on opposing faction members."
This is what covert detection scanners are for. Some cities that are decidedly factioned that I know of allow members of opposing factions to enter for shopping. Example: I know of an Imperial city that lets rebels in because it helps with the role-play idea that rebels will try to mingle with imps to gain knowledge, very StarWarsy if you ask me. As far as the TEF thing, in a factioned city, perhaps have members of militia be overt while on duty as a standing practice.
Well, it is somewhat unreasonable to request that covert scanners line th entrance of a town when providing a special that has the same effect would be just as good. True scanners are attackable and could therefore open up a path into the town to allow for coverts entering I have to ask why they would be in there in the first place. The only reasonable answer would be GTEF's (a scourge of GCW combat) since any shopper would notice where they aren't wanted and leave rather then risk a flagging and subsequent flogging. I don't see the harm in removing the ability to stop a grief attack as long as the shoppers are given a warning that is just as visible as a scanner if not moreso.
"This thread is meant to be about cities in the GCW. I don't know why we need to worry about Neutral Cities. As I said above the bonus for Neutrals is to not get shot at. To give them a bonus for NOT participating in the GCW as well as the BONUS of not having to worry about what wil be waiting for you when you land declared into the next starport doesn't seem fair to those of us who are factioned. It all depends on how StarWarsy we want to get. You could give Neutral Cities extra benefits to crafters or reduced maintenance cost's for merchants and city buildings but in Star Wars if Vader got off a transport at 11:00 am and was greeted with "Hello I am mayor Neutrality and we are a Neutral City." Mayor Neutrality would be dead and the so called Neutral City would be under Imperial control by 11:05 am."
Contrary to Imperial players' belief, many cities remained neutral throughout the Emperor's reign, including some whole planets. It's in the literature. The developers have only granted us 10 planets to play with and on those worlds, some cities choose to remain neutral. That is the choice of everyone in that city, if it wasn't, those people wouldn't live there. Given this, neutral cities have as much right to an opinion in matters regarding player cities as a whole as any potentially factional aligned city has. Similarly, some cities even have RP reasons for their city's neutrality and use that neutrality as an RP springboard.
They were as neutral towards a faction in this war as Paris was in the 40's.
"Allow Mayors to declare Alliances with other declared cities of the same faction."
This is part of playing the role of a politician. Go out and schmooze your neighboring cities and set up alliances on your own. If your city is in trouble, know who from the other city you can call on if you need assistance. My city has done this with other cities and it works VERY well.
Yes, but this would mean having it sealed and official. I'm allies with several PA's and we have a rebel network that pretty much keeps all our cities and guild leaders connected. However it is unnoficial. It would be nice to be able to send out messages as swiftly as To: Citizens with allies and have a way of showing our devotion to each other.
Cendatinea wrote:
"New tariffs for factions. Have an imperial/rebel tax that checks faction affiliation before adding on the extra % or so to cost. For towns that are rebel but still want a thriving and neutral business district this way you can give a slight message of "you aren't welcome" and also get some more change for the city coffers."
Realism brings this into question for me. Would a mayor really stand at the shuttle and say, "Excuse me, are you a (insert faction here)?" and then charge that person a tariff? Not likely and taking a cue from the crackdown itself, not EVERY rebel or Imperial or person in possession of sliced goods is caught by such a scan. It is assumed that the character who "passes" a scan while actually being a rebel or holding that sliced weapon was able to lie their face off and get away. A covert detection scanner would search biosignatures but not impose a tariff, which is how those work. This is a war, people are not going to come right out and say "Yeah, I'm a rebel, fine me," so having an automatic tariff in place is not very realistic.
This is a game, so while you can try and make everything as realistic as possible, sometimes you have to think about unrealistic rules, to make the game more fun or controllable. You could, of corse, think about it this way: Certain citizens aren't as popular as others, some are even so "dífferent" in their ways, that they are directly mobbed by the total population of the town - effectivly leading to them getting lesser goods or having to pay higher prices etc. Think of it as a "I don't like your face" typ of mobbing. It is half-realistic and does give cities the power to semi-force unwanted factions out of the city. On the other hand - if you want to play a covert rebel spy in an imp city - you can think of it as the extra money you have to spend to keep your cover - because in a city your neighbours are always watching you 
Cendatinea wrote:
3) FACTION DECISION RECOGNITION
Just like mayors can choose to have their cities on the planetary map, they can choose to show its faction as well. This will result in the appropriate symbol (or none for neutral) being displayed by the city name on the planetary and travel menu maps, as well as NPCs of the chosen faction would wander around town, or planetary NPCs in neutral cities.
I would really vote for factional cities having to show their faction on planetary maps / ticket terminal maps - sometimes you shuttle in and can't shuttle back for another 9 Minutes - and this game still has to take into account the many "casual gamers" that don't know which city is which faction.
As I said before - the devs clearly stated, that the art department can't take any more jobs for new art until JtL is released (maybe even for longer). It would be easier to let Mayors drop items in the city/on Gardens - this would also benifit neutral cities, that could finaly drop public crafting station or tables and chairs to really sit on for an actualy workingcafé ...
Cendatinea wrote:
4) PLACEABLE FACTION CITY ITEMS
Mayors are given the option to place factional items to further display their allegiance. Banners could be placed on streetlamps (a new type of streetlamp maybe, with the banner attached), a statue of the Emperor for Imperial cities, a statue of some sort for rebel cities, and a special tree or something for neutral cities.
StumanKadir wrote:
-Give theMayor the ability to set a "no-fight" rule on their city that prevents all GCW related fighting (but allows duelling to continue) from occuring. This will prevent GTEF griefing of residents, etc. If a base is dropped this ability is negated (ie; is not available).
- Re-instate Citywarn with the priviso that anyone subject to a citywarn has a set time to retreat from the town or shuttle out (say 10 minutes to prevent griefing) and that citywarn only has a lifespan of say 24 hours before it expires.
1)optional Non-Fight rule for neutral cities that have no bases or other similar faction buildings
2)Citywarn
3) automatic ban of oposing faction for all city buildings , not just bank, city hall, cloning
4) automatic covert detector within the whole city area
5) no additionally bugs on cities
StumanKadir wrote:
-Give theMayor the ability to set a "no-fight" rule on their city that prevents all GCW related fighting (but allows duelling to continue) from occuring. This will prevent GTEF griefing of residents, etc. If a base is dropped this ability is negated (ie; is not available).
- Re-instate Citywarn with the priviso that anyone subject to a citywarn has a set time to retreat from the town or shuttle out (say 10 minutes to prevent griefing) and that citywarn only has a lifespan of say 24 hours before it expires.
I like these ideas for neutral citys except citywarn should be about 3 minute... thats plenty of time to leave a city.
I think a declared city should have a HQ tent of some sort. That tent can be taken over by the other fraction. If the other fraction controlls the city then all + effects are reversed and given to the other fraction thus allowing city "ocupation" by another fraction. ... Potentially that can only be done by residents of a city of oposing fraction and have a % of city taxes go to the city the ocupiers came from. Their has to be a reason for attacking citys with a positive and negitive for successfully defending/ occupying a city. That will make the GCW have some meat.... otherwise why attack a city that has all the tool's to keep you out even if you won the battle.
1) Ability to declare a faction for the city
2) Declared cities get to place faction-specific perks, like recruiters, fountains, statues, or banners with emblems...so we can tell a Rebel city from an Imp one
3) Turrets should have smaller footprints and be donated to the mayorto beplaced as a city structure, saving citizens' lots...same with scanners and bases, since they'll be part of the city's purpose
4)Don't allow the city-widebanning or TEF of an entire faction....my merchants count on any business they can get,so instead...
sweatyclimber wrote:
I like these ideas for neutral citys except citywarn should be about 3 minute... thats plenty of time to leave a city.
Remember, that the devs clearly said, /citywarn will not return the way it was once implemented - simply raising the timer (up to a levell where /citywarn doesn't even serve a purpose anymore) won't change the fact, that neutrals by design shouldn't be forced to PvP if they don't want to and can't be kept from ingame content (like POIs). So /citywarn would have to be totaly revamped, before devs think about reimplementing it.