Politician Archive

1 & 2 I'm in agreement with.

3 I'm fine with if we really think it's important. I run a very neutral city, so I'm not the best to ask about the importance of this.

I like everything you said. For number 3 I would add some type of toggle, or make it so that cities can declare faction alignment. If a city declares imperial, the militia can sniff out covert rebels, and vice versa. If the city does not declare the militia does not get this ability. That way neutral cities wouldn't have to worry about having half imperial half rebel militia.

Also, if a city declares faction, it could get recruiters. I was very disappointed that we only get faction terminals and no recruiters.

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Fidgiter wrote:

"3. Covert Factional oppoonents. Allow militia members to act as covert detectors."

Very well presented except the typo (opponents).

--I'll edit that. We don't want to deal with oppoo-nents. Hehe.

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This 3rd item was also a very nice touch but there are some potential snags apart from the POI dilemma. What if the Mayor wants the city to be neutral but has covert rebels and imperials in the militia? By invoking a TEF on various folks the city could end up being a battle zone at times when the Mayor or militia may not seek.

--Can we leave it in as something that a good mayor is just going to have to excercise his judgement on? If a neutral mayor gives militia power to folks who are going to use it in ways he doesn't like, is that part of the gameplay of being a good mayor or is it something we have to make surethe devscode around? Running a multi-faction city is going to be a challenge, regardless.

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I prefer having this option as a switch that can be turned off and on as the Mayor chooses. If there are raiders about he flicks the switch and the militia become empowered as detectors. Some Mayors may want it to always be active, some may want it conditionally active and others may never want it active.

Not sure if this adds a prohibitive level of complexity or not but figured I’d mention it. Ultimately I think many mayors want to be empowered to matter more than an hour or two a week to use their skills in a way that has the type of contribution that the voters of the city seek.

--As I posted just above your response, I love this suggestion, and I'd like to see it included in our proposal for politician abilities. Alright for now to leave it out of the proposal regarding strictly militia?

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Thanks for the work on this issue, Fidgiter.

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PsychoticChipmunk wrote:

What is going to stop my imperial militiamen from attacking rebels and vice versa?

--As I asked in the last response, is it something you want to get to deal with yourself as a politician andas part of the gameplay of choosing appropriate militia members, screen them, make sure they are willing to go with the program, or do you think you need to be able to toggle this ability on and off, which is of course asking for more, and the more we ask for, the more difficult to get. Let me know.

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Mkappus wrote:

"make it so that cities can declare faction alignment."

And then link the ability for militia members to detect covert to the alignment of the city, right? It makes sense, but then of course you eliminate the ability for militia in neutral cities to detect covert Rebels or Imperials who might be causing trouble for the purpose of calling in friendly factioners to remove them once they are detected.

You tell me, folks, what do you want to ask for:

-Toggle militia ability to detect covert on/off as a mayoral ability (asking for more complexity, less chance of getting the feature at all, but if it is important, its worth it to ask now)

-Militia ability to detect covert linked to city factional status as declared by mayor. (less flexibility for neutral towns and mixed-faction towns, but less potential chaos)

-Ability to revoke militia status remotely, without presence of the militia member. This has been asked for in the issues thread, and incorporation of this political ability would serve as a tool for the mayor to better control his militia. If they start TEFing other citizens and starting unwanted battles, it would be easier to remove them from militia this way.

I'll change it to make it the way you want it to be.

1. Vocal and emote griefers. The Politician players propose a /cityignore feature. Such a feature would allow a militia member tomake it impossible for the target to use spatial communication or emote spam within the city limits.

A very nice peaceful solution against vocal griefers, I'm all for it.

2. Pets as grief objects. Pets with harassing names, pets that block access to terminals, pets with earth-shaking effects, pets with extra large sizes placed in inconvenient locations, all should be removeable by militia when left unattended by their owners, whether placed back into the owner's datapad or pushed outside of city limits.

As stated ... unattended .. so you'd probably have to add a check routine to see it the pets master is nearby (loaded to the pets surrounding, or pet loaded to masters surounding). Oh ... and maybe remind the devs they wanted to make shaking effects an on/off switch

3. Covert Factional oppoonents. Allow militia members to act as covert detectors.Making covert detection a militia power would be a nicestep toward re-empowering militia that would go beyond the already available covert detectors as a means ofanswering the request for an ability to remove covert enemies from town. For covert factional players, this might mean some difficulty around POIs dominated by opposing faction towns, but not more than what is already possible in a town with covert detectors. However, factional coverts do not rate the same level of protection from game systems as true neutrals do. Neutrals have opted out of PvP entirely, while coverts have opted for a status which can expose them to PvP combat, even against their will at times, such as when they areTEF'd by a covert detector.

I'd like to see this used by Overts, rather than forcing the city to declare to one faction ... there are towns with 2 factions in them (mostly covert) that have their 2 sides of the town (as many towns in RL) which creates a very interesting scenario.

Still I'd like to see a posibility for neutral cities to be able to enact their personal conflicts that aren't part of the GCW (Thugs vs Militia ... Jabba vs Lady Val ... Imp vs Nym ... etc). Please don't forget the majority of neutral players that aren't part of PvP simply because they are neiter Reb nor Imp ... but would like their own battlefield (without PA wars because they are part of different PAs or not in one .. and without having to /duel 50 people)

Giving militia member faction detection abilities would be a mistake as there is no defense against it. If you need this done, set up faction scanners, as many as you feel is necessary. There is no logical reason why militia members should mysteriously aquire knowledge about the identities of all covert faction members.

This makes much more sense with far less grief:

1) reinstate city warn on a 3 minute timer

2) set a 500m radius around POIs in which /citywarn does not work

3) set a 75m radius around shuttles and cloning labs in which no faction deeds (minfield, turrets, covert scanners, etc) can be placed.

4) people who are /citywarned, if killed within the city, are forced to clone at the nearest NPC city

This is grief proof yet still allows you to rid your city of problem visitors without giving the militia powers they should not logically have.

I agree with the below 100% - Milita do not need faction detection.

Mangle

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Giving militia member faction detection abilities would be a mistake as there is no defense against it. If you need this done, set up faction scanners, as many as you feel is necessary. There is no logical reason why militia members should mysteriously aquire knowledge about the identities of all covert faction members.

This makes much more sense with far less grief:

1) reinstate city warn on a 3 minute timer

2) set a 500m radius around POIs in which /citywarn does not work

3) set a 75m radius around shuttles and cloning labs in which no faction deeds (minfield, turrets, covert scanners, etc) can be placed.

4) people who are /citywarned, if killed within the city, are forced to clone at the nearest NPC city

This is grief proof yet still allows you to rid your city of problem visitors without giving the militia powers they should not logically have.

Isaac Palinander
Mesa de Venganza, Lok (Scylla)
Master Gunfighter/ Architect (in progress)
Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan/ Master Smuggler

I don't like the idea of not allowing mines and such around shuttleport and cloning... we do not want the enemies to use our facilities now do we?? (and yes I have been blown up via rebel mines.. it happens..)

a faction scanner on its own takes up a HUGE space... normally not able to be place.. (we tried) takes up more space than a city hall. having personel able to detect covert players would work.. (all it does is giving them TEF and they can defend themselves unlike city warn ability where it is one way fight.

What we need for any of these to go out is community consensus. What I've got here is a pretty good consensus on #1 and #2, but a lack of consensus on #3, the covert-detection ability.

Faction players have the covert detectors already, and perhaps to gain the consensus we need to move forward, we leave it at that and exclude it from militia ability.

Let me know what you think. On Friday, I'll be making a final draft of this, so we have a couple of days left to discuss this.

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Polenth wrote:

A fair number of coverts (myself included) are in the faction for PvE, not PvP. Covert detectors are a fact of life for coverts, but they're avoidable. You can see them, or see someone dropping one and run before it is completed. I don't like the idea of an instant-death covert dectector system, with no risk to the one using it, just for walking over a city boundary I didn't know was factioned. Coverts aren't considered so much 'at risk' as neutral, but still shouldn't be placed in a situation where they will be griefed.

I wouldn't mind militia's being able to covert detect if:

1. Covert gets a warning that someone is trying to scan them, and has a time limit to escape the city boundaries to not get detected. Could be 2 mins like the last city warn time. If they leave the city, they won't be detected (unless they walk straight back in obviously).


2. Only overt militia members should be able to do it, and only for members of the opposite faction. Otherwise neutral/coverts could force coverts to have a TEF, and leave turrets/NPCs to kill the person at no risk to themselves. Also works out for neutral cities, as I've yet to see a neutral city that encourages faction members to go overt. By tellingthe militia to always make sure they are covert on duty, it guarentees to visitors the city is safe whatever their faction.

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Reavus wrote:

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Polenth wrote:

A fair number of coverts (myself included) are in the faction for PvE, not PvP. Covert detectors are a fact of life for coverts, but they're avoidable. You can see them, or see someone dropping one and run before it is completed. I don't like the idea of an instant-death covert dectector system, with no risk to the one using it, just for walking over a city boundary I didn't know was factioned. Coverts aren't considered so much 'at risk' as neutral, but still shouldn't be placed in a situation where they will be griefed.

I wouldn't mind militia's being able to covert detect if:

1. Covert gets a warning that someone is trying to scan them, and has a time limit to escape the city boundaries to not get detected. Could be 2 mins like the last city warn time. If they leave the city, they won't be detected (unless they walk straight back in obviously).


2. Only overt militia members should be able to do it, and only for members of the opposite faction. Otherwise neutral/coverts could force coverts to have a TEF, and leave turrets/NPCs to kill the person at no risk to themselves. Also works out for neutral cities, as I've yet to see a neutral city that encourages faction members to go overt. By tellingthe militia to always make sure they are covert on duty, it guarentees to visitors the city is safe whatever their faction.

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Excellent solution! I love it!

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Bajeezus wrote:

I also propose seperation of militia and mayor... this way more members can be militia without the power of grantzoningrights. (basically split into two groups which a player can be in both.. or have them as assign abilities)

I want to handle this within the politician skill/gameplay issue. If we are going to come up with things for non-mayor politicians to do, then this concept might be one of those things. And removing /grantzone doen't really have anything to do with defense or the /warn issue, so I left this out for now. Is that going to work for everyone?

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First - I agree with the majority of posts here on #1 (cityignore) and #2 (abandoned pets removal). On #3 (covert detection), we also have a neutral (or better description - multifactional) city. I do not think giving militia covert detection capability is a wise move.

Second - On your point about separating grantzoningrights from militia and handling it separately. Perhaps I am a lone voice on this, but I think not.

That issue is FUNDAMENTAL to this topic in my opinion. Until militia do not have the ability to grantzoningrights, my city will not have a robust militia. If I do not have a militia, what does it matter the additional abilities (/cityignore, for example) we get as I will not have a militia to perform those functions. From my reading of the other threads on this, there are many Mayors that would agree with me.

So - my recommendation is that this proposal on militia INCLUDE a request to remove grantzoningrights from militia.

I know I can get behind this. I actually prefer it as Bejeezus originally suggested, but I would accept these limitations as a solid way of preventing griefing.

I wouldn't mind militia's being able to covert detect if:

1. Covert gets a warning that someone is trying to scan them, and has a time limit to escape the city boundaries to not get detected. Could be 2 mins like the last city warn time. If they leave the city, they won't be detected (unless they walk straight back in obviously).
   
2. Only overt militia members should be able to do it, and only for members of the opposite faction. Otherwise neutral/coverts could force coverts to have a TEF, and leave turrets/NPCs to kill the person at no risk to themselves. Also works out for neutral cities, as I've yet to see a neutral city that encourages faction members to go overt. By tellingthe militia to always make sure they are covert on duty, it guarentees to visitors the city is safe whatever their faction.

- Acroyear