Politician Archive

I think this is how this process is going to work: I'll unsticky your "solutions" threads as I post the "our proposal" threads and sticky those instead. In these "our proposal" threads, I'll do my best to work through what you all seem to be asking for and at the end of the initial post make a first draft of our our proposal for that single issue for you all to jab at and eventually approve. Gaining that approval may be a process that happens throughout the thread in some cases as we work on more messy issues. Or it may be something that is very clear cut that you all simply address with a quick "approve" and we can move on to the next issue.

Let me start going at this first issue, militia.

Therewere a large number of responses that simple said, "bring back /warn." We've already been told that isn't going to happen, and as a matter of fact we've been told that any re-implementation of /warn has been put on a long-term schedule by the devs. Asking for a simple return of the /warn feature is like us banging our heads against a brick wall.

So, I titled this issue "ability to defend", not "bring back /warn". What is it we are defending against? From the submission thread itappears we want a few different things here:

1. ability to defend against vocal griefers

2. ability to create roleplay communities (hives of scum and villainy,"Tuskan Raider Villages")

3. ability to rid towns of opposing covert faction members

4. placement of unwanted pets in town

We've got a very popular proposal here for a /cityignore feature.It's been mentioned that /cityignore by itself does nothing for points 2 and 3, but as an extension of the /ignore feature that every player already has, it would seem to be very effective at removing the theat of point number 1.

For the removal of covert faction members, we already have a tool at our disposal, the covert detector.However, we are discussing militia powers and abilities here, and it occurs to me that making covert detection a militia power would be a step toward both re-empowering militia as well as answering the request for an ability to remove covert enemies from town. For covert factional players, this might mean some difficulty around POIs dominated by opposing faction towns. However, factional coverts do not rate the same level of protection from game systems as true neutrals do. Neutrals have opted out of PvP entirely, while coverts have opted for a status which can expose them to PvP combat, even against their will at times, such as when they areTEF'd by a covert detector. Can we get a consensus on thisissue from this community of politicians?

As for creating "hives of scum and villainy", this is a tough one. In the absence of any information from the devs about the possibility of creating /warn-free zones, moving playercities, or moving POIs, I don't think we have a solution here. Extending the warning time to two or three or four mintues, or however long you may make it will not remove the problem the devs created for themselves when the neglected to make the areas around POIs no-build zones initially. In SWG, PvP for the most part has been placed into the context of the GCW. We don't have player-thugs assaulting other players outside of the Rebel versus Imperial context, and although it would be nice to have allow player cities to set their own PvP policies, the access to POI issue is not one within our sphere as players to deal with. We can say we want this roleplaying/community defining tool, and leave it to the devs, who really wanted this feature as well, to figure out how to get it back into the game.

We should ask for some ability to remove unwanted, unattended pets from our cities. Whether the pets are removed from the city's territory or /stored back to the owner's datapad, there should be a way to protect cities frompets with harrassing names, large size, earthshaking effects,terminal-blocking with large pets, etc.

So, now thatI've gone through all of your suggestions and requestswe come to stating our issue for the devs. Here's a first draft for your approval:

Issue #3: Militia ability to defend.

The Politician community would like the developers to know that the militia ability to /warn was a popular feature, one which allowed our cities to define themselves, police themselves, and provide roleplay opportunities not possible through factional PvP. When the access to POI issue is able to be resolved, the Politicians would like to have the /warn feature returned to them and their militias, along with lengthened warning periods andincreased system message warnings to players who wish to avoid the risk of PvP.

While the /warn system has been revoked, the Politician players are concerned primarily about three forms of intrusion by unwanted players.

1. Vocal and emote griefers. The Politician players propose a /cityignore feature. Such a feature would allow a militia member tomake it impossible for the target to use spatial communication or emote spam within the city limits.

2. Pets as grief objects. Pets with harassing names, pets that block access to terminals, pets with earth-shaking effects, pets with extra large sizes placed in inconvenient locations, all should be removeable by militia when left unattended by their owners, whether placed back into the owner's datapad or pushed outside of city limits.

3. Covert Factional oppoonents. Allow militia members to act as covert detectors.Making covert detection a militia power would be a nicestep toward re-empowering militia that would go beyond the already available covert detectors as a means ofanswering the request for an ability to remove covert enemies from town. For covert factional players, this might mean some difficulty around POIs dominated by opposing faction towns, but not more than what is already possible in a town with covert detectors. However, factional coverts do not rate the same level of protection from game systems as true neutrals do. Neutrals have opted out of PvP entirely, while coverts have opted for a status which can expose them to PvP combat, even against their will at times, such as when they areTEF'd by a covert detector.

There you have it folks. Three specific requests we can make of the devs, along with a general statement requesting the eventual re-implementation of /warn. Let me know what you think. I know it doesn't include everything that everyone wants, but does it do a good job of addressing what seem to be the most prevalent issues?

Wow... looking good. I know the devs took out the /warn, but they did say they are "working" on an alternative method..

I like the system. removing unwanted pets and such... but something to consider. At which point does it consider to be unwanted? in a PvP battle, removing pet would be a great "tool" to the defending side... it may not be fair... but it can be use as a tool. does this tool work on Roaming animals? i.e. border attacks?

Militia as "covert scanners" is a GREAT idea... kudos!!!

I also propose seperation of militia and mayor... this way more members can be militia without the power of grantzoningrights. (basically split into two groups which a player can be in both.. or have them as assign abilities)

Nicely done Bajeezus.

/approve

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Chibi-Bar wrote:

I like the system. removing unwanted pets and such... but something to consider. At which point does it consider to be unwanted? in a PvP battle, removing pet would be a great "tool" to the defending side... it may not be fair... but it can be use as a tool. does this tool work on Roaming animals? i.e. border attacks?

I certainly hope the phrase "unattended pets" catches the devs eyes. I don't mean for this to be a way to remove pets during PvP battles, just pets left in the city while the owners are in another location or offline, pets left there to grief.

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Militia as "covert scanners" is a GREAT idea... kudos!!!

Thanks, but give a big helping of "kudo" to Fidgiter, who suggested "Security Net. If a city is defined as a Factional Stronghold it can activate a Security Net (Costs FP or CR per hour of operation). While activated all covert operatives of the opposing faction would receive a TEF as if the city radius itself was all under the influence of a covert faction sensor."

I responded that I would like to see that added as a political ability, but while we are working on militia abilities, I incorporated the idea on a smaller scale, as something a militia member could do to help defend his town when he sees someone lurking around who should be there.

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I also propose seperation of militia and mayor... this way more members can be militia without the power of grantzoningrights. (basically split into two groups which a player can be in both.. or have them as assign abilities)

I want to handle this within the politician skill/gameplay issue. If we are going to come up with things for non-mayor politicians to do, then this concept might be one of those things. And removing /grantzone doen't really have anything to do with defense or the /warn issue, so I left this out for now. Is that going to work for everyone?

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"3. Covert Factional oppoonents. Allow militia members to act as covert detectors."

Very well presented except the typo (opponents).

This 3rd item was also a very nice touch but there are some potential snags apart from the POI dilemma. What if the Mayor wants the city to be neutral but has covert rebels and imperials in the militia? By invoking a TEF on various folks the city could end up being a battle zone at times when the Mayor or militia may not seek.

I prefer having this option as a switch that can be turned off and on as the Mayor chooses. If there are raiders about he flicks the switch and the militia become empowered as detectors. Some Mayors may want it to always be active, some may want it conditionally active and others may never want it active.

Not sure if this adds a prohibitive level of complexity or not but figured I’d mention it. Ultimately I think many mayors want to be empowered to matter more than an hour or two a week to use their skills in a way that has the type of contribution that the voters of the city seek.

Mayor Feliz Gizmacher, Mayor of Dune Retreat

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Bajeezus wrote:

-Toggle militia ability to detect covert on/off as a mayoral ability (asking for more complexity, less chance of getting the feature at all, but if it is important, its worth it to ask now)

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If I had this option I would turn it off.

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-Militia ability to detect covert linked to city factional status as declared by mayor. (less flexibility for neutral towns and mixed-faction towns, but less potential chaos)

I think this is a good idea. But why would "Rebel" cities advertise the fact?

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-Ability to revoke militia status remotely, without presence of the militia member. This has been asked for in the issues thread, and incorporation of this political ability would serve as a tool for the mayor to better control his militia. If they start TEFing other citizens and starting unwanted battles, it would be easier to remove them from militia this way.

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If we ask for this why don't we ask for remote /grantzoningrights too? I don't think we have a chance at that one.

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Bajeezus wrote:

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PsychoticChipmunk wrote:

What is going to stop my imperial militiamen from attacking rebels and vice versa?

--As I asked in the last response, is it something you want to get to deal with yourself as a politician andas part of the gameplay of choosing appropriate militia members, screen them, make sure they are willing to go with the program, or do you think you need to be able to toggle this ability on and off, which is of course asking for more, and the more we ask for, the more difficult to get. Let me know.

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Well I personally want thte militia to be somewhat separate from the mayoral control. I plan on being a part of the militia myself however I don't expect to be the leader of it, and honestly being a PA leader and mayor is more then enough so I don't want that responsibility. I'd let the militia head more or less tell me who should join and who should not et. al so it is off my head. However allowing the militia to be of differing powers (like a PA) would help control this a good amount more then just deciding who is and isn't allowed in.

I think that it would be for the best if insteadof givingblanket power to all militia members (if it can be turned off and on, or not) would be a fairly bad thing and take a great gift and more or less trivialize it. Letting "high ranking" militiamen have this power as well as perhaps city mail or something else while restricting the grunts to just /warn and defending. This way you can make ranks in a sense and let some people be more powerful then others. Plus it will help reign in disruptive militiamen and exonerate good ones. Also if it is possible/easy it would be nice to have a master switch that would just let everyone in the militia get it all at once instead of going over each and everyone in the event of a raid or something, but that isn't a big deal.

There have been a few posts describing how trustworthy mayors and militia grief the city itself (/grantzoning rights for militia and destroying the hall when you loose mayors) which is another reason why I think asking for thisto be toggleable for each and every personwould be better, you can never tell what a person is really like no matter how well you think you know them. Let them PvP but don't let them have all the power to potentially grief it.

A fair number of coverts (myself included) are in the faction for PvE, not PvP. Covert detectors are a fact of life for coverts, but they're avoidable. You can see them, or see someone dropping one and run before it is completed. I don't like the idea of an instant-death covert dectector system, with no risk to the one using it, just for walking over a city boundary I didn't know was factioned. Coverts aren't considered so much 'at risk' as neutral, but still shouldn't be placed in a situation where they will be griefed.

I wouldn't mind militia's being able to covert detect if:

1. Covert gets a warning that someone is trying to scan them, and has a time limit to escape the city boundaries to not get detected. Could be 2 mins like the last city warn time. If they leave the city, they won't be detected (unless they walk straight back in obviously).


2. Only overt militia members should be able to do it, and only for members of the opposite faction. Otherwise neutral/coverts could force coverts to have a TEF, and leave turrets/NPCs to kill the person at no risk to themselves. Also works out for neutral cities, as I've yet to see a neutral city that encourages faction members to go overt. By tellingthe militia to always make sure they are covert on duty, it guarentees to visitors the city is safe whatever their faction.

Nice response from a covert faction point of view, Polenth. I like the time warning on being detected, giving you a chance to escape.

In addition to that, we have the suggestion that a city must be factionally aligned to use the covert detection ability of militia. In that case, a covert imperial coming into a rebel town would have two warnings, one that he was entering an opposing faction city, and two that this is a city that employs militia. Now he can weigh his risk as he decides whether to enter or not. Good?

Many of the cities that are faction-aligned have Bases of one type or another placed in or near their city limits.

It would be great if the Mayor or Militia members could set Patrol Points for any base personnel created/spawned inside the City boundaries.

For instance, you have a base within the perimeter of your city with 2 AT-ST's and a dozen ST's ... in the morning the Mayor sets Patrol points around City hall and the Shuttleport for those troops, and they follow that Patrol until detecting an opposing faction member (who they attack) or until told to stop by the Mayor, at which point they go back to the AI patrol function at the base that spawned them.

Bajeezus,

I like a lot of the proposed tools such a cityignore. However, bringing back /citywarn is a bit more complicated due to the fact that it was used to control access to POI and other content in the game. I have a proposed solution I'd like you to bring up to the devs for feedback.

1. Create a 100-150m buffer radius around POI so city militia have no rule even if the POI is smack in the middle of their city limits.


2. Leave the citywarn timer on 2 minutes, allowing ample time to reach the POI buffer zone. Warning expires when entering the POI buffer zone, meaning they would need to rewarn themafter leaving the POI to make them attackable.


3. Implement a /cityleave command, so that people who are unwilling to participate in the pvp aspect of this game can quickly be ejected from city limits should they be warned. Have them ejected in the direction they were facing so they dont have to backtrack around city limits without being forced into pvp.

I'm pretty sure the two griefing aspects the devs were concerned about are covered in this proposal. People who are unwilling to participate in pvp can no longer be forced into it by using the /cityleave command for quick and easy removal from city limits. Additionally, cities with intent to control a POI will no longer be able to because of the buffer zone protecting bypassers, and the 2 minute timer on warn allowing ample time to reach the POI buffer zone.

Comments?