CUEmu - Thread Posts

Toront

Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:27 pm

Now first off I'll state that I am not a politician. I am however fairly familiar with the profession and player cities in general. The reason I am writing this is because my city's Mayor is so fed up with the city that he plays characters on other servers.

His main gripe? It COSTS him money to be Mayor. It is not a paid profession, but one he must pay to maintain. He is forced to plant heavy fusion generators and sell power to fund the city.

Why is it like this? I have several issues with "money-sinking" aspects of Player Cities.

1.Possible RevenueSources- Where does the money go? If we plant a trainer, and I learn a skill for 9k (too lazy to travel out to C-Net or Theed) that 9k is gone. There should at least be some kind of option to get a percentage of this go back to the city, or an additional charge, like 9.2k with 200 creds going to the city, similar to the shuttle prices. This should be a similar option on cloning and insurance terminals, player garages, etc. When players use these services and the credits are "sunk", some should sink into the city maintenance pool. You could even tack on that 5% bank fee that disappears from a /tip when done in a City with a bank.

2. Decoration - I just think that some of these cost too much to maintain. I mean, everyone wants nice looking cities. However my Mayor refuses to add them because they only compund the credit sink he's in. So I end up stuck in a Talus which is now pitch black at night with no street lights and only one garden.

3. The Income Tax Limit - Of all my issues, this is probably the biggest one! I realize that the Devs want to avoid griefing and so do I. I'd hate to log in and see that income tax was bumped to 100k and my Mayor is off tanning on Tatooine, living the good life. That being said, the 2k max is just ridiculous. I mean, even a new player can make 2k in like half an hour. Most likely if they can afford a house and maintenance to live in the city, they can afford more than this. I think that a max of anywhere from 5-10k would be acceptable. If it gets to be too much, then people can just move out. But doing this would likely solve all of the credit problems as the city might come close to being self sufficient. Possibly even have missions from city mission terminals pay some of this off automatically. After all, the "missions" are usually to clear out villians or predators hanging around the city limits (as if anyone reads the mission descriptions anymore).

Just to add a few points as I'm sure someone will point them out, sales tax and maintenance. Now both of these generate revenue and are fine. However, they can't be bumped up high enough to make the city self sufficient without consequences. Maintenance becomes a real pain for harvestors and factories placed within the city border. These two things chew up enough creds without having extra % added on. With sales tax, if it's put too high, crafters either have to lower their price and take a profit hit or simply move out and go to another city. If they move out, that's one less vendor earning sales tax for the city.

Like I said, this post was fueled by my Mayor's frustration with the system. I am not a Politician, and it's possible that I've made a few misjudgements about the Player City system. I just wanted to see if the community felt the same way and hopefully catch the Devs attention. Like I said, the biggest problem is the income tax limit, and thathopefully wouldbe a quick fix change of the 2k value in the code. I just want to see my Mayor actually be able to earn a paycheck from the skill points he's devoted.

Thank you,

Captain Toront Naumko

~~-----TTF~~~~----~~-
- Toront – Canadian Bingo Badass -
s Alonzo is my pet Normie s I RP Your DND s
You don't know the power of the Sunguard

Tiaga

Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:41 pm

#2

The city I'm in is having no trouble at all balancing the budget. In fact, we've grown so much that we're down to a 1% sales tax no income tax, and either no or low property tax.

Cities are not supposed to be something easy to maintain. They are not cheap to run. Some cities will crumble for social or financial reasons.

If he's having trouble balancing the budget and doesn't want to keep paying out of his own pocket then he either needs to look at his fiscal policy and adjust it so the city is getting more income, or look at what ammenities the city has (Trainers, mission terminals, gardens, decorations, statues, fountains, civic structures, etc) and take out what isn't needed.

Inside my heart is breaking, my make-up may be flaking
But my smile still stays on
My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies
Fairytales of yesterday will grow but never die
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WildmanHT

Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:41 pm

#3

Howdy

Im just curious....why does your mayor have to pay to keep your city running? Are all the citizens a bunch of free-loaders or something. I dont blame him for notsticking around and playing on another server.

Why dont you all get together and, hold on to your chair, you all donate to the city treasury.....figure out what the city costs on a weekly basis and divide that by how many citizens are in the city and times it by 4. Then each month do the same thing....

Ok, your problem is solved now...Whose next?

Maybe I should start a "Dear Wildman" column here...

Best of luck to ya.

WildmannHT Mayor, Ville Sura, Naboo: Wanderhome

Wildman - Original Master ShipWright when JTL came out

Naboo City of Ville Sura Ship Vendors: -2115 934 Ship Parts Vendors and Misc. Also home of THE THIEVES MASTER SHIPWRIGHTS

http://www.horsethieves.net> HT HorseThieves--
"In outlaw country, a man only has one chance to mind his own business"

Meplorium

Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:44 pm

#4

They are suppose to be a money sink. Have everyone in your city do just one 10k mission per week and donate that to the city. It will be fine. Cities run off of donations, not taxes. Even at full taxation you have problems paying that weekly bill while upsetting everyone with taxes. Donations are they way to go.

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Toront

Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:58 pm

#5

We do help him out. He just ends up being the one that gets worried and frustrated about it. We're not a huge city (sitting about 10-15 under Metropolis). I guess more citizens @ 2k a pop would help. But I still think that income tax limit should be bumped

Toront

~~-----TTF~~~~----~~-
- Toront – Canadian Bingo Badass -
s Alonzo is my pet Normie s I RP Your DND s
You don't know the power of the Sunguard

PsychoticChipmunk

Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:06 pm

#6

I agree, it's not that people can't or don't donate to city it's simply the fact that they have to donate in order for hte city to be self serving unless it has a large merchant district. If I were to own a stronghold city that is mainly/only used for PvP it would require people to do missions then drop the rewards into city hall. Well why can't we just use the taxes to take out the middleman of shuttletransport and the terminal? Adjust the income tax and the property tax so that they alone could support a metropolis with modest decor, of course if the mayor wants to max out the number of lamps, gardens, and fountains he can put that is his problem. Oh well, it's really just a request to make the cost of a hall more manageable rather then such a requirement.

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0000000000000000000000000000000000Decorator, Mayor, Rifleman, Bothan0000000

Toront

Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 pm

#7

Yeah. That is basically the argument I'm going for. I mean, my city isn't about to disappear. It'd just be nice if the income tax system worked for us (self sufficiency, no running over to city hall to donate) as opposed to how the limit works against us. The other points were just suggestions. Like it'd be nice to have a few things generating revenue.

From what I understand, garages can have a % added. Hopefully that should help things a bit, seeing as how that was one of the only reasons I left the city, to repair my bike.

Toront

~~-----TTF~~~~----~~-
- Toront – Canadian Bingo Badass -
s Alonzo is my pet Normie s I RP Your DND s
You don't know the power of the Sunguard

Valuthorax

Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:44 pm

#8

we are a storonghold -- we have merchants -- i think it is designed so it is not fo jsut a "pa" the larger you get -- it is for a city -- the city i run -- i had to donate 2 mil the day i got in office -- had 20k left -- with a 1% sales tax, 15% repair for speeders, normal shuttle 10% income and the 100 a week we are up to 3 mil in treasury now.

i have max gardens -- max trainers etc -- so ecverything and anything

i set it up so the next mayor will have it easy --

i even set up a mall -- to bring in income -- thats waht mayors do -- find ways to make the city money (and swap out trainers

Valuthor Rax Wanderhome

StumanKadir

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:26 pm

#9

We haven't had any taxes (of any sort) and a minor charge on the shuttle for the last5 months, and have been able to balance our budget and keep a minimum of 10 weeks in the Treasury quite easily.

Every week in my city address, I ask for donations to the treasury and folks gladly dip their hands in and feed the city. We have maxed out the decorations (gardens, streetlights, fountains and statues) and have the place looking like a city should. We have maxed out the number of trainers, have every type of city structure (sans a Theatre which is going in shortly)........and we do all of this without taxation.

I guess our residents (or the wealthier ones at least) are a bit more civic minded than the ones you guys have.

It's funny, but we find folks happy to donate 20 or 30k to the treasury each week, but will **edit** and whine and moan at paying 2k in taxes .

And I'm proud of the fact that since I have been mayor, I have yet to have to dip into the treasury to pay for things as nearly everything has been made or donated by residents.

Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game
Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

King_of_Dragons

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:39 pm

#10

I agree with the thread starter, well-balanced cities should pay for themselves. I propose we think up new ways to tax people:

Some ideas I had:

-Cloning Tax (both when you set your clone location and possibly when someone actually clones themself)

-City entry fee? Similar to entering a house with an entry fee

-Trainer taxes, we need to get money from this

-Mission taxes, give us a % of mission reward

-Raise flat tax, 2k max a week is too low, make it something like 10k max (I'd personally want to do something like 5k or so)

-Bank fee, possible ideas are a flat rate when depositing/withdrawing, give us some of the 5% bank transfer fee, possibly earninterest on it?

Anyone have any other ideas? Or any comments/suggestions/flames regarding mine?

Jalwin Moerad - Hologrinder
Mayor/Co-Founder of Dark Force City

jemelby

Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

#11

Our city treasury grows about 800K a week beyond the 1.1 Million in Maint. We are a metropolis, and are maxed out on decorations and structures. We fund the entire city witha puny 5% sales tax, and what ever the minimum shuttle brings in.

If SOE want's to clean up some cities, and give up and comming cities a chance to progress, they ought to make cities 500% to 1000% more expensive. Then you'd see cities fold up fast. I would be forced to levy a proprty tax, and would likely have to raise the shuttle fairs, but even with that kind of increase, our citywould thrive.

Cities should be dang expensive. They should be the pinnacle of a players experience. They should be something really special for citizens to have the privilage to live in, too. There should be some elite-ism there. If the game continues the course it is going, players are going to start screaming if they don't have a pre-built, pre-populated city and a 100 million+ bank account within the first week of play.

CITIES SHOULD BE INSANELY DIFFICULT!

J'Vee
Mos Onarok, Tatooine - Flurry

PsychoticChipmunk

Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:16 am

#12

Stuman I don't think you understand my meaning. My city is run on donations as well. We just hit rank 2 a few weeks ago so I haven't even enacted taxes yet...donations are all we can have. However I don't see the reason for this especially since after doing some math I figured that we would still need some donations after I put on reasonable taxes (and odds are my numbers will belowered when I poll the populace).

Now I personally just don't see this as right. I would prefer it if I could just get all the money from taxes and remove the middleman that is shuttle travel time and using the terminal in order to get the same amount ofmoney from everyone. If people still want to donate that's fine, but if I didn't spend so much time in and around the city I would consider it a bit of a pain considering the in game system that could prevent the time being taken from me so I don't forget to drop that 50k in the hall and accidentally buy a new rifle or whatever.

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0000000000000000000000000000000000Decorator, Mayor, Rifleman, Bothan0000000

Plagvreugd

Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:43 am

#13

Cities should NOT be insanely difficult so only the über players can get their player city. Normal players who are not excessively wealthyshould be able to live in a city too. My city is a city of (mostly) entertainers, who - as most of you probably know - aren't the richest folk around.

It is absolutely ridiculous that the weekly maintenance fee for a simple street lamp is THREE times as much as the original purchasing value.

Thewt Tabro of Infinity
mayor of Elysium Valley (Tatooine)
member of the Pink Kreetles
Kingof Kings
Lord of the Idiots

Politician Archive

Thread: Are Player Cities supposed to be the huge money sink they are?