Politician Archive

Thread: Inactive List Should be tied to housing

ArthurP
Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:14 am
#1




I know I've posted this elsewhere, and this is rehashing. But the devs seem to listen to the squeeky wheel. I do not want this post to be aimed at attacking players or cities higher or lower than yours. My one point is this:


If the devs cannot/willnot remove the houses of inactive citizens - it is very damaging to remove them from the citizenship of that city. I understand the benefits of the inactive citizen rule - but it should be tied one way or the other- to thier house.


As it is, a city losses citizens, but potentially has no geographic space to add more citizens to reclaim their loss. It's all arbitrary - 6 weeks inactive, city caps, one week update, etc. The Devs have much room to change how they do this.

However, - and this is a BIG HOWEVR.... If a player is paying SOE a monthly bill, AND thier house is paid up in maintenance - they have EVERY reason to expect to be able to come back to the game with their character, status and inventory and they way they left it.


What's next, their character starts FORGETTING their skills? I mean, they ARE inactive for a long time... and inactivity SHOULD cause some skill loss... And maybe their pets forget who they are... and...


You see where I'm going with this. It's all arbitrary. I'm SURE there are geographic issues they are dealing with. I'm SURE they wish to give other cities a chance. But this is an arbitrary solution that is a sanctiond GRIEF to the player, the city, citizens, and visitors to that city that have come to depend on the services that city offers.



If they want to start clearing out cities - start with some of the NPC cities that are DEAD and empty much of the time! Ok, that will never happen, but you get my meaning. Does anyone else remember a comment from the devs that suggested they might increase the size of planets? As I say.. this is arbitrary on the devs part andis a GRIEF, plain and simple.

Message Edited by ArthurP on 03-27-2004 09:16 AM



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Karquile
Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:05 pm
#2






ArthurP wrote:




However, - and this is a BIG HOWEVR.... If a player is paying SOE a monthly bill, AND thier house is paid up in maintenance - they have EVERY reason to expect to be able to come back to the game with their character, status and inventory and they way they left it.




You're absolutely right. And they haven't even lost their citizenship permanently - the moment they redeclare, they're back on the rolls, no questions asked.


There is no reason why someone who has not been in-game for six weeks should have a pretend 'vote' for an incumbent (who might be similarly absent). Nor should their dead-weight 'citizenship' prevent other active cities from growing.


I'm sympathetic to the clogging-up complaint but fear it's being overused by mayors who didn't take elementary steps to avoid this kind of problem (admittedly, the policy wasn't in effect at first).
dhcpSilicon
Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:34 pm
#3

If they're inactive to the point of losing their citizenship, their house and all the goods contained therein should be thrown into a pack in their inventory. They can then place it when they come back.
Karquile
Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:41 pm
#4






dhcpSilicon wrote:

If they're inactive to the point of losing their citizenship, their house and all the goods contained therein should be thrown into a pack in their inventory. They can then place it when they come back.




There are people whose houses are engulfed by growing cities, or who are members of other cities, and never have citizenship to begin with. Why are they any different? If someone pays maintenance, goes to fight in Iraq for a while, and comes home, would you uproot everything they own?


This still gets back to the mayor-as-God thing. The city is a political structure laid OVER the underlying system of house ownership. It doesn't supersede it.




dhcpSilicon
Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:04 pm
#5






Karquile wrote:





dhcpSilicon wrote:

If they're inactive to the point of losing their citizenship, their house and all the goods contained therein should be thrown into a pack in their inventory. They can then place it when they come back.




There are people whose houses are engulfed by growing cities, or who are members of other cities, and never have citizenship to begin with. Why are they any different? If someone pays maintenance, goes to fight in Iraq for a while, and comes home, would you uproot everything they own?


This still gets back to the mayor-as-God thing. The city is a political structure laid OVER the underlying system of house ownership. It doesn't supersede it.





The mayor would have no say over it, the city would automatically redeed the structure. If they were outside the city and became engulfed, and then weren't playing the game, it's no different from someone who meant to live in the city and stopped playing.


The root problem here is the very fact that the city DOES revoke citizenship after 6 weeks. That's still going to happen if you're unable to log in, for whatever reason.
Karquile
Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:14 am
#6


So let me get this straight.


Let's say I own four houses - one each on Lok, Naboo, Rori and Tatooine - and I give my friends admin to each of them so that they can put vendors in them alongside my vendors, and we sell power and resources to the people of our galaxy.


  • The one on Lok is in a player city and is my declared residence.

  • The one on Naboo is in a player city and used to be my declared residence, until I redeclared in Lok.

  • The one on Rori has been engulfed by a player city, but is not and never has been my residence.

  • The one on Tatooine is outside the boundary of any player city.

Now I am posted to sea for a couple of months. My friends watch the maintenance on the houses and keep selling fiberplast while I go off and defend the country for a while.


When I get home, order a pizza and log in again to my fully paid SWG account, what am I going to find waiting for me under your beautiful plan? Three naked house deeds in my inventory? Four? Millions of credits worth of resources poofed from my friends' vendors, even though they've been minding the store?


All this because my Lok voting rights lapsed while I was scraping paint in the Azores?







Let me try to put this into one sentence that nobody can misunderstand:


Your vote count does not trump my property rights.


ArthurP
Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:42 am
#7

Exactly... Nor should our citizenship be revoked because you were on an extended vacation or away on military duty, etc.


I'm not pushing for houses to be pulled up anymore than I think you should forget how to scout, find your pets again, or anything of the sort. I'm trying to say that as long as your house is standing and maintenance is paid - the Devs should not presume that you should loose your citizenship. What is so special about citizenship that it must vanish before your house does?


I've said it before, I'll say it again.. this is just plain GRIEFING to the player, the city and those who come to depend up on that city for services. And a city should not lose citizens when their house is still active taking up valuable realestate.



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Now Playing in the NEW Bantha PooDoo Cantina
in Beautiful, Historic Kestrel City, Naboo

ï Now with Mayor Power ! ð


Cahito
Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:20 pm
#8

Something does need to change... it is hard for a city to recover from inactive citizens if there is no available land left to build on. The odds are that there house will be taking up city land for MONTHS. I do believe that as long as a players account is paid on, and the house maintence is paid.. they should still be a declared resident.



Cahito
Mayor of Plucky DuckyVille
ArthurP
Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:20 pm
#9


It is a disaster for a city to be the size of a Metropolis LOOSE services and be left with a ghost town. Hmm just like most NPC cities - we don't see THEM loosing Shuttles, Starports, Bazaars, etc.


DEVS PLEASE DROP THE INACTIVE RULE. This isa GRIEF plain and simple. Whether you revoke citizenship or pull up a house to reclaim land - you are GRIEFING someone arbitrarily. Do away with the whole inactive plan. If a customer is paid up on both their game bill and house maintenance - they should FULLY expect to be able to come back to the game as they left it.


Or are some paying customers more important than others?




¯¯¯¯ArthurP Coodle¯¯¯¯
Now Playing in the NEW Bantha PooDoo Cantina
in Beautiful, Historic Kestrel City, Naboo

ï Now with Mayor Power ! ð


Meplorium
Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:21 pm
#10

You know what is funny, is all these people who love this rule and are drooling over leveling their city don't realize one simple thing, the piper always get paid. No mater when you build your city and no mater how much you grow it up, you will be in this situation. Lots of structures, few citizens and no land. It isn't a matter of if, but one of WHEN. Those wanting a shuttleport so bad and saying how great this is need to really think about this, because it will hit them.


For me I am on Dantoonie and we did not lot swap and no leveling problems. All those 90 some people were real players. Now we are down to 80 because a few people quit. Now we hit the domino effect where we lose everyone one in the 400-450m radius and land locked 400m and under. We just go down down down even though we have the people.


If we lose the citizens, then we need to gain the land back some how. The player base is shrinking, anyone can see that. You will lose more people during this time than you can hope togain.This rule does nothing but point that out. Houses are not just cheap, but free. Any Coronetspamer will tell you that, even though they are afk.It is bad enough that you lose a friend, but then you get to lose a city to boot. It is just WoW, how stupid can the Devs be. This is one of those cases where the suits need to step in and doing something right for the game and their business, i.e. not to alienate their remaining customers by taking away something they worked hard for because their friends have quit. There is a second domino affect in play here, and the second one has to do with people quiting the game, not losing citizens.





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Cettina
Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:58 am
#11

This is a hard issue for me. On one side I am a retired soldier - and I truly understand being deployed and not having access to our accounts while serving our country. Also, rl issues can come up - accidents, illness, etc. On the other side, I am also a mayor and have the same problems as others with land filled with empty houses of players I know have quit the game to go play EQ or other such stuff. We truly need to come up with a balanced solution to SOE on this.


For example, if I know that a player quit to play another game, why cannot I not identify them to SOE? On the other hand, many of us know who is in the military in our cities (if we truly are an interested mayor) and could identify them to SOE also. The unknowns we would just have to live with, because we do not know if rl has them in a bind atm.


Brainstorm on this.


Cettina


LeeRydersRevenge
Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:46 am
#12

the solution is really simple. Create an algorithm.


if SOE created an algorithm that measured how often a player logs on( if the acct is still active), the housing situation within any given city, the cities traffic based upon 1) residents 2) proximity to a POI or other traffic inducing landmarks 3) terminal usage 4) shuttle usage 5) credits generated by taxes, etc...


It willeffectivly find a pattern in there, and hence a formula... to lay plans for which cities need help and do it on a case by case basis. the many hours wouldnt be alot on soe's part after the initial release of this because the closer we get to se, the more people will be coming online to play this POS, bug filled RL money sink of a garbage can game. (or so we hope)



Sony's Answer to our problems?


You want fries with that? It's a shame.





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Today, it would be a miracle if you could get one to shut up.
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Chibi-Bar
Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:59 am
#13

what is even worst is when a player joins a city, that player can revoke citizenship and still be in the city..... without paying any taxes and such... unless the citizens goes to each house/vendors and manually ban that player (lots of work)


A city inside the zone should remain a citizen as long


- Account is active and paid in full

- Maintence is paid up for the duration


NOT because the player did not log in 6 weeks.


If the maintence ran out while they are on vacation, the player is more than likely slap himself in the head going "doh! I should have checked" instead of having SOE redeed it for you (not a bad plan... but alternative since we DO have the 6 week rules)


If SOE really want to proceed with the "Great Shrink" then how about this


- Account must be active and paid for

- maintence in-game house is paid up

- Can only declare citizenship to ONE server only (this will clean up cross server but will hurt some population who actually play on more than one server.


IF

- you have double citizenship (they can check this via city terminals) then the system will check local residence of the city... if not present.. then remove citizenship (since they are declared someplace else)


-a player places a house in the city zone, declare and then revoke their citizenship (no longer a citizen assume above already implemented) then the house will go into accelerate decay until house is move outside the city zone or redeclare as citizen.


I know this may cause some grief to some players, but I feel this is fair overall..




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