Politician Archive
Thread: I'm quitting Mayor and SWG. My list of needed changes to the Politician profession.
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JennerCobrari
Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:37 pm
#1
At long last, after almost a year playing, I quit. Not just as a mayor, but also as a player. My account will soon be cancelled once my friends have cleaned me out.
I have many reasons for quitting SWG, and I won't go into details, but I write this as a summary effort of desperately needed changes to the Politician tree, since having worn the Master Politician badge and been mayor of a metropolis on Naboo, I've seen all this profession has to offer.
First, the technical issues.
Politician is NOT worth the skill points its worth. Even the 15 point initial cost is too high. This is NOT a full-active profession that one uses every day like Brawler or Scout. Thus, it should NOT cost the same. In my opinion, it should cost 1 skill point to pick up and 1 point for every block till master. 18 points in all. Politician is a complementary profession. Treat it as such, especially in a mostly combat-oriented game.
After much thought, I don't accept a simple "transfer mayor" command, but the biggest hurdle faced getting a new player into office is overcoming the insane amount of auto-cast votes for the incumbent. So, there needs to be a "relinquish mayor" ability. This way, a mayor who is leaving can activate it, and wouldn't get any votes cast for him automatically. Thus, whoever is running for the city, only needs the highest number from those who actually voted, even if the spread is: 90 citizens, 80 inactive citizens (didn't vote), and 10 voted for playerB. PlayerB would still become Mayor.
There needs to be a way for a mayor to see the owner of any structure. Nuff said. How do you even contact a person living in a house near or within your city's expanded borders if there's no way to see who it belongs to?!
There needs to be an Evict command. 10 days notice to tear down a structure isn't much to ask. Have it work on a structure-by-structure basis. Thus, if I don't like the factory a stupid militia member set up in the middle of town, I can evict only it. If they fail to move, too bad. The house, harvester, factory, and all contents are lost. That's life. It's NOT too powerful an ability either. 10 days is enough time to run against the Mayor if the citizenry believes the eviction unfair. If this does get programmed, be sure to clear all eviction notices if a new mayor takes office!
Player Cities NEED to be able to pay for themselves. A fully operational Metropolis needs almost a million credits a week. This is ludicrous! Even with some of the most oppressive taxes I can set, the most I've ever pulled in one week with 90 citizens is 550k cr! And that's with almost ALL taxes set to MAXIMUM! As a suggesstion, make ONE tree of Politician give 10% reductions on city maintenance each level, and Master give an additional 20%. Thus, a Master Politician has a 60% reduction in city maintenance costs. Going back to the profession example, ALL professions are designed to MAKE money. Politician is designed to LOOSE money. Why? This is NOT how the game is intended, no matter what any CSR says.
7-day delay on city structure re-deeds. This would stop the griefing mayor syndrome. City structures should need to be "initialized" like vendors. You can place them, and redeed them freely. BUT, you can't use them until they're Initialized, and initialized structures take 7-days to un-initialize so they can be re-deeded. Once again, if a new mayor takes office, clear all un-initialize flags on all city structures.
Next issue, please make some "tall" lampposts with a LARGE light radius for city use. It takes about 20 of the current ones to light a single dark street.
Craftable signs would be nice.
Fix the tax-rate on Shuttle ports! It changes back to 100cr/use every server reset no matter what I set it to!
Now the social problems:
For a player to LIVE in a city, there needs to be an ADVANTAGE to living in a player city. Currently, there are NONE other than role-play value. Living in a player city costs you additional money in the form of taxes. Sure, it's a convenient shuttleport but Swoopbike and vehicles make many things overly convenient. Think about this for a second because I don't say "there is no advantage to living in a player city" lightly:
If I live NEXT to a player city, and NOT WITHIN it's borders...
I can still use its terminals.
I can still use its trainers.
I can still use its shuttle.
I can still use its garage.
I can still use its med center and cantina.
I can still enjoy it's gardens.
I can still get the Job Market bonus if there is one.
I can still get the Medical Center bonus if there is one.
I can still get the Research Center bonus if there is one and I have a droid with a crafting unit or a citizen with a crafting station who put me on admin of his house.
...AND.... because I DON'T live in the city, and am not a citizen...
I don't have to pay a single credit!
There NEEDS to be an advantage to wanting to join a player city. For example:
Reduced costs of trainers, garage, shuttle, etc.
Increased mission payouts for citizens. Improved Job Market would give this increase to ALL players, citizen or not, and citizens would get even more of a payout.
Check for citizenship during the crafting cycle for awarding any Research Center bonus.
Increased medical ability if buffing / healing in your own city's med center or cantina. Medical Center bonus gives even more increase.
There is ONE advantage I can think of though besides the role-play aspect and that's if the city is a Stronghold, have an active militia and contain a faction base.
Last needed change. There is no "community" in a player city. I'm sure the upcoming "player city missions" will add a little community to cities, but what is really needed is:
-Bulletin Boards with/without an access control list assignable by the mayor.
-Assignable "Mail:Citizens" ability granted by the mayor to select citizens (town criers? city journalists?)
-"City Message of the Day" for all entering the city, or selecting it on the world map.
-Ability for the mayor to give discounts on all city vendors for special events. Maybe not needed, but a very nice touch. How would this work? Easy. Make a special events treasury for the discount. Mayor puts in money. Mayor sets price limit (all items 100,000cr or less). Mayor sets discount amount (10% off). Mayor activates the discount. Now, ALL items sold in the city are 10% cheaper. Players buying them pay 90%, and the other 10% comes from the special events treasury. When the treasury runs out, the mayor gets a mail and the prices return to normal.
-Ability for the mayor to set up race track courses by placing up to 30 waypoints and a timer droid. Also a nice community building touch.
-More structures!
-- A large gazebo, pavilions for weddings.
-- Storage warehouses.
-- How about a flea-market structure where anyone can rent a stall which includes a vendor and sell up to 30 items with no cash limit? Something only Master Merchants can set up inside city borders.
-- Actual shop structures. This is STAR WARS!! The height of the Merchant Profession should NOT be a ratty old tent! Maybe for Everquest or a fantasy game, but not STAR WARS!
-- Post office? The ability to send packages to remote locations and people for a price. Just a nice thought.
That's the end of my list and what I can think of from the top of my head. Having been mayor, I'm sick of seeing the Politician Profession done in such a half-baked way. Then again, the primary reason I'm leaving SWG is because of things only done 80% of the point they should be.
My advice to new mayors: Don't. It's not worth it yet. Changes will happen when SOE gets the manpower for it, but unless you got a ton of cred burning a hole in your pocket. It's simply not worth it.
My advice to current mayors: I know most of you feel the same way I do. Push SOE and remind them that you're still there and you're unhappy. Talk to the Politician correspondent whoever that is now. Outline exact changes you want done and propose them. I didn't. I waited patiently almost a year and now can wait no longer for change to happen.
Farewell and good luck. I wish SOE and the SWG project the best.
-Jenner Cobrari (Politician/Gunfighter:Tempest)
a.k.a. Tibbs Novastar (Weaponsmith:Tempest)
I have many reasons for quitting SWG, and I won't go into details, but I write this as a summary effort of desperately needed changes to the Politician tree, since having worn the Master Politician badge and been mayor of a metropolis on Naboo, I've seen all this profession has to offer.
First, the technical issues.
Politician is NOT worth the skill points its worth. Even the 15 point initial cost is too high. This is NOT a full-active profession that one uses every day like Brawler or Scout. Thus, it should NOT cost the same. In my opinion, it should cost 1 skill point to pick up and 1 point for every block till master. 18 points in all. Politician is a complementary profession. Treat it as such, especially in a mostly combat-oriented game.
After much thought, I don't accept a simple "transfer mayor" command, but the biggest hurdle faced getting a new player into office is overcoming the insane amount of auto-cast votes for the incumbent. So, there needs to be a "relinquish mayor" ability. This way, a mayor who is leaving can activate it, and wouldn't get any votes cast for him automatically. Thus, whoever is running for the city, only needs the highest number from those who actually voted, even if the spread is: 90 citizens, 80 inactive citizens (didn't vote), and 10 voted for playerB. PlayerB would still become Mayor.
There needs to be a way for a mayor to see the owner of any structure. Nuff said. How do you even contact a person living in a house near or within your city's expanded borders if there's no way to see who it belongs to?!
There needs to be an Evict command. 10 days notice to tear down a structure isn't much to ask. Have it work on a structure-by-structure basis. Thus, if I don't like the factory a stupid militia member set up in the middle of town, I can evict only it. If they fail to move, too bad. The house, harvester, factory, and all contents are lost. That's life. It's NOT too powerful an ability either. 10 days is enough time to run against the Mayor if the citizenry believes the eviction unfair. If this does get programmed, be sure to clear all eviction notices if a new mayor takes office!
Player Cities NEED to be able to pay for themselves. A fully operational Metropolis needs almost a million credits a week. This is ludicrous! Even with some of the most oppressive taxes I can set, the most I've ever pulled in one week with 90 citizens is 550k cr! And that's with almost ALL taxes set to MAXIMUM! As a suggesstion, make ONE tree of Politician give 10% reductions on city maintenance each level, and Master give an additional 20%. Thus, a Master Politician has a 60% reduction in city maintenance costs. Going back to the profession example, ALL professions are designed to MAKE money. Politician is designed to LOOSE money. Why? This is NOT how the game is intended, no matter what any CSR says.
7-day delay on city structure re-deeds. This would stop the griefing mayor syndrome. City structures should need to be "initialized" like vendors. You can place them, and redeed them freely. BUT, you can't use them until they're Initialized, and initialized structures take 7-days to un-initialize so they can be re-deeded. Once again, if a new mayor takes office, clear all un-initialize flags on all city structures.
Next issue, please make some "tall" lampposts with a LARGE light radius for city use. It takes about 20 of the current ones to light a single dark street.
Craftable signs would be nice.
Fix the tax-rate on Shuttle ports! It changes back to 100cr/use every server reset no matter what I set it to!
Now the social problems:
For a player to LIVE in a city, there needs to be an ADVANTAGE to living in a player city. Currently, there are NONE other than role-play value. Living in a player city costs you additional money in the form of taxes. Sure, it's a convenient shuttleport but Swoopbike and vehicles make many things overly convenient. Think about this for a second because I don't say "there is no advantage to living in a player city" lightly:
If I live NEXT to a player city, and NOT WITHIN it's borders...
I can still use its terminals.
I can still use its trainers.
I can still use its shuttle.
I can still use its garage.
I can still use its med center and cantina.
I can still enjoy it's gardens.
I can still get the Job Market bonus if there is one.
I can still get the Medical Center bonus if there is one.
I can still get the Research Center bonus if there is one and I have a droid with a crafting unit or a citizen with a crafting station who put me on admin of his house.
...AND.... because I DON'T live in the city, and am not a citizen...
I don't have to pay a single credit!
There NEEDS to be an advantage to wanting to join a player city. For example:
Reduced costs of trainers, garage, shuttle, etc.
Increased mission payouts for citizens. Improved Job Market would give this increase to ALL players, citizen or not, and citizens would get even more of a payout.
Check for citizenship during the crafting cycle for awarding any Research Center bonus.
Increased medical ability if buffing / healing in your own city's med center or cantina. Medical Center bonus gives even more increase.
There is ONE advantage I can think of though besides the role-play aspect and that's if the city is a Stronghold, have an active militia and contain a faction base.
Last needed change. There is no "community" in a player city. I'm sure the upcoming "player city missions" will add a little community to cities, but what is really needed is:
-Bulletin Boards with/without an access control list assignable by the mayor.
-Assignable "Mail:Citizens" ability granted by the mayor to select citizens (town criers? city journalists?)
-"City Message of the Day" for all entering the city, or selecting it on the world map.
-Ability for the mayor to give discounts on all city vendors for special events. Maybe not needed, but a very nice touch. How would this work? Easy. Make a special events treasury for the discount. Mayor puts in money. Mayor sets price limit (all items 100,000cr or less). Mayor sets discount amount (10% off). Mayor activates the discount. Now, ALL items sold in the city are 10% cheaper. Players buying them pay 90%, and the other 10% comes from the special events treasury. When the treasury runs out, the mayor gets a mail and the prices return to normal.
-Ability for the mayor to set up race track courses by placing up to 30 waypoints and a timer droid. Also a nice community building touch.
-More structures!
-- A large gazebo, pavilions for weddings.
-- Storage warehouses.
-- How about a flea-market structure where anyone can rent a stall which includes a vendor and sell up to 30 items with no cash limit? Something only Master Merchants can set up inside city borders.
-- Actual shop structures. This is STAR WARS!! The height of the Merchant Profession should NOT be a ratty old tent! Maybe for Everquest or a fantasy game, but not STAR WARS!
-- Post office? The ability to send packages to remote locations and people for a price. Just a nice thought.
That's the end of my list and what I can think of from the top of my head. Having been mayor, I'm sick of seeing the Politician Profession done in such a half-baked way. Then again, the primary reason I'm leaving SWG is because of things only done 80% of the point they should be.
My advice to new mayors: Don't. It's not worth it yet. Changes will happen when SOE gets the manpower for it, but unless you got a ton of cred burning a hole in your pocket. It's simply not worth it.
My advice to current mayors: I know most of you feel the same way I do. Push SOE and remind them that you're still there and you're unhappy. Talk to the Politician correspondent whoever that is now. Outline exact changes you want done and propose them. I didn't. I waited patiently almost a year and now can wait no longer for change to happen.
Farewell and good luck. I wish SOE and the SWG project the best.
-Jenner Cobrari (Politician/Gunfighter:Tempest)
a.k.a. Tibbs Novastar (Weaponsmith:Tempest)
Kabooobie
Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:24 pm
#2
If you quiting the game whyare you making a big deal over these issues?
LordAvatar
Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:17 pm
#3
Kabooobie wrote:
If you quiting the game whyare you making a big deal over these issues?
His ideas are still mostly sound, and I agree with quite a lot of them.
Kyorlana
Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:26 pm
#4
It's like when you have an exit interview for a job. The management take the opportunity to find out WHY you are leaving. He/she's just volunteering the information without being asked 
Excellent post a lot of good stuff in there that I agree with. Not all, but a lot
Excellent post a lot of good stuff in there that I agree with. Not all, but a lot
Cyleco
Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:20 pm
#5
Definately alot of good ideas, I asked TH in the last dev chat they had about us politicians, and he said that the changes will most likely come with the GCW revamp. I will still wait...
Stoogith
Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:24 pm
#6
Kabooobie wrote:
If you quiting the game whyare you making a big deal over these issues?
Because he knows how us Politicians feel and he would like to see something done to help us even if he IS retired from playing. I for one would like to bid you adieu and good luck in whatever you do (or play) next.
/Salute
SamRebo
Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:22 pm
#7
My Concern with anything coming for Politicians being tied to the GCW is that a city that is Neutral may be missing out on a lot of content. I love my master Politician title, I really do, but it's really starting to be a burden on character choices. I would love some new abilities, but it's getting tough to hold on, espically since the promise of new content is months down the road.
nurTsunami
Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:49 pm
#8
Wow, a lot of good ideas packed in there. I can see that you truly care about the politican profession, even though your leaving the game. I can only hope that we will get some of these enhancements/fixes sooner than later so that more dedicated individuals won't burn out and leave the game.
Perhaps one day you might come back, and jump for joy seeing all of it done and implemented. I'd wait 18-24 months before you come back in that case though
Hey Devs, please take note of these ideas!
josslyn
Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:45 am
#9
Wow! Great ideas! Hopefully sometime we actually see some of this stuff happen. Gah, who am i kidding 
Oh well never hurts to be a dreamer i suppose.
Oh well never hurts to be a dreamer i suppose. Chasity
Solace City Mayor
Master Politician/TKM
FS_Paith
Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:01 am
#10
Im really surprised to see people who actually play Politician. Most ive ever seen are usually crafter's that can make those millions, and that have the Politician profession. Or someone's second account and alt character to where they dont have to play bascically. Just to hold the city. I know our city is busy with garage fees due to its close to mining outpost and no other garage is closer. It was stated that it 'pays' for cityhall. And now faction base.
Its really too bad they didnt add player cities from the beginning and in beta to where a player would 'HAVE' to be in a city to lay down a house and not just anywhere.
Its really too bad they didnt add player cities from the beginning and in beta to where a player would 'HAVE' to be in a city to lay down a house and not just anywhere.
Moonkat
Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:52 am
#12
Awesome Post to the original poster of this thread. I understand SO much of what you say. The skill point thing ESPECIALLY.
RampantOne
Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:01 am
#13
Totally agree with these ideas... great job at presenting them. Thanks.
It is true, mayors and player cities get the shaft in this Galaxy. Shame, because it is your A-list players that have the gumption to build cities.
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