Player Associations Archive
Thread: Option to hide the PA Tag(poll/debate)
Sorry Jascentia if I had an edit button I would fix that for you 
Its human nature to dislike for no reason. On every server there are PA's that are hated and those that are well respected. The SOS has well over 100 members and we do a very good job maintaining a positive image on our server, and you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would say other wise. Its all in the way you approach people and how you manage your members. Yes it does get harder to manage large groups but if you do a reasonable job at recruiting good quality members your job becomes 20 times easier. If one of your members does slip up you need to be prepared to take action instantly so this sometimes means having a constant eye on the server forums watching for threads that target your PA or one of its members. You would be surprised at how much respect you will gain if you are the second post and act calmly and with reason.
This thread is not about managing PA Membershowever, its about hiding the Guild Tag. I like the idea of being able to do a /guildstatus as a compromise,but who in thier right mind is going to do one on every player not wearing a tag. Your guild tag carries more info about your personal characterand those yougroup withthen most care to admit in those letters floating above your head. Why shouldanyone have to do a /guildstatus on all those around for recruitment, enemy status, or jsut plain anything. This info needs to be readily available to anyone around you for thier protection as well as yours.
However i woudlnt say you have to restore the guild tag on login, i would just make it you gotta go back to the terminal to turn it back on (UO had the same setup)
Man i gotta visit this forum more often, ive been asking for this since we tested PAs in Beta 2
KStarfire
Yes
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=222074
Someone on the Jedi Top 5 issues thread said "Guildtag gives away jedi when a covert rebel jedi(not rebel by choice) is a member of an imperial guild. Imperial jedi are the only ones that deal with this problem but its a big problem. I would argue this gives us a unfairdisadvantage. I get tells at starports frompeople that are like: So hows it feel being a jedi. It is so bad that at times I can't use starports because my name starts circulating."
A Jedi who was a member of an Imperial PA before getting their jedi character would risk giving themselves away as a Jedi, just because they haven't gotten to the skill level needed in order to become Imperial yet.
I have not joined a Bounty Hunter PA because I don't want to wear a tag that easily announces to everybody who I'm associated with.Likewise, I choose not to wear my profession titles and Iwould rather not have to display my profession badges. There is a good thread about these topics right now on the new Core Systems forum: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=csystems&message.id=1832
However, I have another character that is in an all Stormtrooper PA, and I don't mind anyone knowing what PA I'm in. It would be obvious I'm an Imp once I put on my armor. But ifmy PA decided to have spies, they couldn't be in the PA or it would be obvious.
I saw a Rebelin our base and know who he's with. I'd prefer that it wasn't so easy.
If you wanted to find out what PA someone's in, get a spy or be one yourself. Find out who they associate with. Follow them to see where they go. If they are spotted always going to the same PA hall, or perhaps they never go to a PA hall but the people they always meet with are, that could be your answer.
So much in this game is too obvious.
More mystery and intrigue could add a ton of life to the game.
With regard to the restrictions proposed by Jascentia:
1. It shouldn't just be the mainPA leader who has the ability to remove your tag. The PA I'm currently in, not the ST one, hasn't seen our leader for weeks. Leaders can't always be around even if the PA goes on. The solution is for the guild leader to grant certain hand-picked members the ability to remove thePA tags.
2. Only allowing guild tag removal at the PA hall seems fine to me.
3. I disagree with having it reset at login.
There are way too many things already that reset at log in.
Every time I log in, my language defaults to Basic. I prefer to speak my native tongue, but I often forget until hour later, and often never remember at all.
I don't like displaying my profession titles.
This is for role play reasons (Teras Kasi is supposed to be a secretorder, Bounty Hunters should be able to use stealth), as well as game design (the devs encourage us to aquire bits and pieces of all sorts of professions, yet only let us show one of them at a time. Profession titles don't make much sense if you have 10 to choose from).
However, when I log in, I have a profession title displayed automatically, even though I chose not to display it the last time I was on.
Also, due to the nature and complexity of online games, people will always crash on occassion. Having to run back to your guild hall just to remove your guild name after every crash would become tedious.
4. I didn't even know there was a /guildstatus command (Heh, I didn't even know there was a PA forum, til I saw a link from the correspondent).
I'd like to see how it works before I really comment on it much.
Now to address the concern about griefing.
First of all, that is a word that gets thrown around way too easily. I think people often over-generalize all behavior they find unpleasant to be griefing. Someone killing someone else in PVP could be called griefing. I don't have an exact definition myself, but its my understanding that behavior has to be especially unpleasant and with malicious intent and be much more severe than the norm to be considered griefing.
For now, I will just go on as if we all had the same definition of griefing.
We would still be able to report griefers to a CSR because we know their name.
PA affiliation should be something a CSR could easily see, even if players can't. A CSR could then see if other players in the same PA have had complaints filed against them as well and put two and two together.
As stated above, players could still determine what PA the griefer was a member of with a bit of legwork and some well-placed tells.
I also agree with those who've said some unwarrented bad behavior could be eliminated if guild tag display was optional. I know of two PAs that I developed bad opinions of anyone who's a member of them just because of the way one or two members in those PAs have behaved. When I see the PA name, I look at that character in anger. I'm not an angry person much, so I try to stop myself and recongnize that I don't know anything about that player, so its not right to lump them in like that automatically.
As for guilds being your family, I understand that. However, members of the Soprano crime family or whatever don't all run around with banners next to their name that scream, "Hi! I'm with the Mob!"
To those who'd say "you're just trying to cover up your association with a PA with a bad rap." Not the case for me. One of my PAs is pretty much defunct. I'm the only member who plays regularly. They were nice guys who wanted to role play, but just don't even play anymore. The ST guild is all role players, too. I've only been in the PA for less than a week, but it seems that no one is interested in harassing anyone else. If I find out that that is the norm, I'll leave.
Yes.
Hey... almost 2000 posts... my first post in this forum 
.
But there has to be restrictions placed on this (see below). Much like the fact that I cannot hide my badge that states, "Mastered Bounty Hunter", to be able to hide certain aspects of your character would be a great thing, especially in terms of roleplaying.
Of course we all and the game have to give up some things in RP so that other things may move along... like having floating names above our heads would really complicate the mass of humanoids in one spot, so there is no option for turning that off.And I can understand some points against this idea... so...
What would be a better alternative MAY be to have a new profession like Spy OR add this "spy skill"to the politician skill set (maybe at Master, but it probably does not have to be), where you could hide your info for infiltration. Heh, make the politicians sneaky like they should be .
**Of course, not you Mother... oh most honorable of politicians. 
Reason is because of Jedi hunting. Being able to drop my guild tag along with my profession title would be helpful.
/end poll;
Yes: 18
No: 7
Yes (Covert Only): 2
Thank you all very much for your votes and input. I will keep the option to hide the PA Tag on the list of requested PA features, with suggestions and restrictions. No matter what your opinion was on this particular feature, everyone will have the chance to select the 10 issues/features that are the most important to you and your PA. Look for the new thread by Friday.
Message Edited by Jascentia on 01-20-2004 09:08 PM
Message Edited by Jascentia on 01-20-2004 09:09 PM
No
I think the only reason someone would consider dropping the tag is because they're about to do something they know would reflect poorly on the guild.
I forsee far too many players getting into a daily cycle of de-tag, grief players, re-tag, play nice, de-tag, grief players, etc. We all know it would happen; I think it would happen a LOT.
Also, I don't think anyone would be fooled. The server community is very small. I'm thinking there's like maybe two degrees of separation, of you know what I mean. If I go out tagless and cause trouble, sombody's gonna know sombody that knows what guild I belong to.
I guess in general terms, anonymity is always a cover for griefing, from guild tags to road rage to the KKK. If you find yourself wanting to go tagless, you need to do some soul-searching about your true motivations.
2 specific reasons to hide guild tag
1) I belong to a small guild (8 people), 6 are crafters, 2 are PvPers. Several times the cities that they have PvPed in have banned all guild members because of the tags of the 2 PvPers. These are cities where the rest of us regularly shop or use the shuttles. The guilds/cities they are attacking seek revenge on others in the guild, such as placing minefields around our shops. If the 2 PvPers could hide their tags while out PvPing, this problem wouldn't happen.
2) Imperial Jedis. I am not an imp, but I've read some of the problems these future dark jedis have. By default, all jedis start out as rebels, even if the character that unlocked the slot was an imperial, and the jedis can't choose the dark path until they finish Jedi Padawan. So you have rebels running around with known imperial guild tags on, some hard core imperial guilds, that would NEVER let a rebel join. Bingo, that person must be a jedi. An imperial jedi padawan needs to be able to hide their tags. Not joining the guild is not a great alternative, because they miss out on guild chat, and the opportunity to ask in guild chat for help if it's needed.
NO
you join a PA because you want to be there, if you want to hide that then leave. /guildstatus is too much hassle. this hiding of your affiliation will mostly be used to decieve ppl. you should always be able to see what pa others are in. and as for the jedi thing, dont guild your jedi. as far as hiding your faction, if you are that concerned with rp dont join a rebel guild who openly announces being rebel in their guild name.
To be able to toggle them on or off at any given time. And for it to save to the server. Dump viewing HAM stats as well. Why do we NEED to see other player stats? No logical reason. Badges too! Have toggleable on or off. Languages too! Have them save to the server of the language you want to speak! Things Ive said but not really posted a 'address this issue' thread since beta.
I also added things such as "You have to be a Master to train anyone for AP points." Not with skill box 1 and train it over and over. More of a roleplayish thing too. Masters and Apprentices. I really dislike seeing a master title over any profession except for Jedi. You always see and hear about Jedi Masters but YOU NEVER see or hear about Master Chefs, Artisans and all the other professions. Master Padawan. lol Okay, it was humorous there for a second.
Anywhos, The name Master should be saved for Jedi. Oh and the other thing was that Jedi had their own faction as like Rebel or Imperial. Then the Jedi also have Darkside and Lightside factions. Jedi should be neutral and not allied of sorts with the Rebellion. They are keepers of the peace and should remain as such.
