Player Associations Archive

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Gooney wrote:

I disagree, or at least disagree that this is a problem. Who cares if a noob and a Master Swordsman goes and kills Nightsisters for xp. If its only 2 people, then your only looking and full xp + 5% divided by 2 per person.

Its not like you really go and hunt nightsisters for xp anyway...they are...more trouble than they are worth.

But lets say the do go and the noob, does get xp, while not being able to do anything. Whats the problem with that? How does that Hurt the game?

The only one loosing anything in this scenario is the noob being power leveled. He wont learn his profession, wont have any appreciation of how the game works or actually how "tough" nightsister are. He will be hurting himself, and in the long run this type of player doesnt stick around too long. Why? Because the game will be unfullfilling.

My point exactly. It continues to create a 'easy' and unrewarding gameplay experience and the player will quit. The purpose is to retain players and make the game more fun while not forcing people to grind. If we go into the standpoint of who cares if they quit, then why should the Developers change anything at all? That's why players are leaving now because they feel like that. The new systems in the Combat Upgrade will be made to make the gameplay more fun and rewarding for combat and to keep players interested. If you allow them to just be powerleveled, why not just give everyone Master when they make a character? The game needs to allow Novice and Master to play together but not simply to power level the Novice. There xp needs to be scaled so that they do learn the game and how it is played while advancing by playing along a more experienced player.

I disagree whole heartedly with tying group xp to combat ability for a few reasons.

-This is a skill based game, meaning that any person can have a bewildering amount of skill combinations. Meaning that even if they arent doing damage they could be fulfilling some other roll. Medic, Harvester, Comedian, a roll that is of some benefit to the group. (should they not be rewarded for that?)

I'm saying tie to to combat for combat characters, not simply for everyone in the group. Why would an Entertainer need combat xp? That isn't their role. Why does the Doctor? That isn't their role. I'm not saying tie their xp into that, but they don't get experience for the creatures dying anyways. Their xp is already tied to the services they render, IE Healing wounds, damage, or fatigue. There xp does not need to be scaled in any way, except maybe a bonus for being in the group itself. They however, do not need equal xp as the service they provide the group with their role is different with every encounter and their xp should be treated as such.

-Even if this person cannot do damage at the moment the group is formed, there is every likely hood they will be able to by the time the group is done.

-Skill based games are based upon the Character not the class. You group to be together with other human beings. *EDIT to clarify* Meaning that a Swordsman isnt really a Swordsman they are a Twi'lek or whatever with Swordsman skills. The whole prinicple of a Skill based game is thateverybody is in fact the same "Level"differing only in their level of mastery of particular skills. Thats the whole point of a skill based game vs. a level based game with "Paper cutout classes", you see a cleric, you get a cleric. You see a Twi'Lek you get...who knows what.

As you've said above, each person is in a group to fulfil a role. Regardless of what species you get, you know what they are when the group is formed. I know the difference between skill based games and level based, as I've played everything from UO to EQ2. The difference is, you still can't allow people to be power leveled because they need to earn their skills. The difference here is that even a Novice of a profession should still be able to fulfill a role in the group, but he should not recieve xp for a role that he can't fill, IE that of a master.

-Even if a person has no combat skills and decides to use a pistol to shoot while they are healing, they are entitled to a full share of the xp gained. Its not like the xp is "Wasted", everyone would be getting a share. And lets face it the current game doesnt incorporate non-combat proffs into hunting very well, or at least not anymore due to the buff situation. Back in the day we always had an entertainer with us to heal BF while the medic sat in the Scouts Multiperson Camp healing the Commandos wounds. This game, the whole point of it is that regardless of your profession you are necessary.

Yes, everyone is necessary. And if you're using a pistol in combat you deserve some experience for it, but not a full share because you're not fully contributing in that role. If you have no combat skills what so ever, you are not going to be able to fill that role, therefor you should not recieve 100% xp for something you didn't do. You have to earn what you get. They still deserve a portion, but it should be scaled to their ability to wield the weapon they are using and the services they provide the group. It does not make sense in a game for someone to recieve high level combat experience when they are not a combatant. Especially in a skill based game.

You seem to be concerned with "Power Leveling", this concern is I feel unfounded. I think we that have played a while forget how quickly you can Master any combat skill in this game on our own. The function of a Group is primarily social anyway. However there are good reasons to take with a lesser skilled individual even if they cant do vast damage to a critter, you might just make a friend.

The reason we are able to quickly master those skills on our own? Buffs, Foods, Composite 80% resist armor, etc.. The things that are causing the very unbalancing nature of the game also allow us to power level up to Master level in a matter of hours or days. That entire mentatily is what has brought the game to the point we are at now. It needs to return to the launch mentality of feeling rewarded and special when you mastered your combat profession because it took you weeks or months to do and you earned the ability to call yourself a Master and at the same time learned to play your profession because you had to know how just to make it there. The entire "Take a mission, kill it for xp, repeat rinse and wash" thing needs to change for the game to return to a fun and competitive level again and that will happen via the CURB.

If you let people simply get power leveled again then the entire point and purpose of the CURB is null and void. The game wouldn't change, combat would just happen in a different manner but everyone would still be tilted to the highest end of the spectrum given their skill set. Each person will have a purpose and they need to gain experience FOR that purpose, not simply because they are there. That isn't fun, nor fair. The entire function of grouping is where we're here to discuss and make changes to and change our mindset from 'solo' to 'group' like the game used to be before Buffs and Uber Foods, you know, when the game was actually fun and challenging and it took a group of players to fight the now 'solo' mobs.

-Gooney

Message Edited by Gooney on 01-21-2005 05:52 PM

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