Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Pistoleer. A useless combat profession? Or ?
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TenshiHanaKinu
Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:41 pm
#1
Now don't get me wrong. I love Pistoleer. I've been a Pistoleer for almost a year now... it was my first choice of firearm when I decided to venture away from the protection of Coronet's Cantina and Medical Centers....
But when you compare the stats of Pistoleer to those of Riflemen, was Pistoleer never meant to be a profession one could use to fight with -- unless you stacked it with other Pistol professions? Like Carbineer, was Pistoleer dropped in the mud to be a bridge class so that people would be forced to dabble in something else to 'bring out the best' of the profession?
Of course I am going to make this assertion using Riflemen, because currently Rifleman is the only viable ranged profession in PvP by itself. Carbineers don't speed cap, and neither do Pistoleers. But Riflemen get a +90 to speed, which makes them fire faster than us right out of the box (an issue I hear will be addressed in this mythical combat Revamp set to be released in '2010').
I originally chose the profession because I used to hunt in the Agrilat Swamps with Riflemen and Carbineers. I thought: Carbineers burn HAM like it's going out of style, and Riflemen are ranged professions that use mind to attack with -- not good if I'm going to be a Doctor (the days before food and entertainer buffs really 'souped up' everything). I figured, hey, my healing range is 6m as a Doctor, I will have to be in the thick of combat. I need a profession that will allow me to protect myself up-close while still being agile. That profession was Pistoleer. Not to mention that pistols are relatively feminine, so it was also an aesthetic choice.
A little over a month or more ago, I decided to Master Pistoleer because I hoped that the dodge would help against the persistent drone of Headshot monkeys spamming it like it's their auto-attack without any consequence, only to be disappointed. I hadn't paid much attention to the Pistoleer forums beforehand, and so when I finally mastered it (it took me 2 - 3 days of grinding 3-4 hours/day from being a Trickshot), I was disappointed when I unleashed my first Multi-TargetPistolShot and how ... well ... sh*tty it is versus Fanshot and disappointed in my speed. I couldn't fire at the cap with specials, not like my Riflemen friends. Fencers with less dodge than I were still dodging more than I because of their CoB macros. I was still relying on the same couple of specials I had for 7 months. Stoppingshot, Fanshot, Healthshot2, and Bodyshot2. The others are relatively broken. Accuracy ain't that great. I'll still miss most of my PvP targets, while they nail me time after time from any range. Umm?
I can understand the need to make it 'less' of a profession than Rifleman because it has other professions with similar lines, but is that fair? With caps to prevent too much defense-stacking in place why can't I be as good as a Rifleman?
And not to mention, why are my specials broken?
Why can't I defend myself?
In a mindshot/state-driven combat system, why can't I place a state or two on my foes to let me stay and fight?
Even if we are meant as a "bridge" class for Bounty Hunter or Smuggler (I don't see why we should have to be), where are the states at?
I've heard suggestions that Pistoleer should be the "Defensive" profession. But think about it. A bounty hunter hunts bounties, and a smuggler smuggles stuff. There is no REASON why a PISTOLEER (a combatant who SPECIALIZES in the USE of PISTOLS) should be any less-good at PISTOLS than a Smuggler or a Bounty Hunter. They should be "BETTER" , even. You mean to tell me that I spend the same amount of points on Pistols as a person does on Rifles, and I'm not as good with a Pistol as they are with a Rifle? Do Pistols just dumb people up or something? Harder learning curve? More keys to hit than that F9 Headshot key?
I know I'm preaching to the choir, I'm just frustrated. I'm tired of having to run and hide because everyone I see when I'm out & about is a freakin' Rifleman, or runs up and puts a KD/Dizzy on me. "Change your Profession." Do you know how tired I get of hearing that? "You suck. You don't know how to PvP" because I stick with a profession I chose? A profession that's broken. Did I know it was broken when I chose it? No. Did I care? No. Pistols are me. I'm comfortable with a Pistol. "Alter your template, add some BH or Smuggler to it" -- WHY . SHOULD . I . HAVE . TO!?
Do I want to be "uber"? No.
Do I want to kick everyone's ass? No.
I want to be able to defend myself. I don't mind running. Hell, look at my signature. I hide in elevators, I run for the nearest lake / ocean, or break for the nearest player building I can. What else can I do? Don't make me put a horrible NERFED bleed on you!!! No Dizzy, no Stun, no Intimidate, no Blind. Sure, a Knockdown. That's it. It's not even that powerful of a KD.
I know I'm not proposing anything or crying about anything that has not already been said, I just need to vent.
- Cap Dodge at +125 at master(currently 105). We don't get CoB so it's not that big of a deal
- Increase Pistoleer Accuracy. +95? Eh!?
- Increase Pistol Speed to +90.
- PistolWhip2 - KD/Dizzy , or at least Dizzy.
- Stoppingshot - WarCry effect (similar to Smuggler)
- MultitargetPistolShot - Stun
- DisarmingShot1 - Intimidate
- DisarmingShot2 - Delay
- BodyShot3 - Amplify Damage. It's a joke special right now
- PointBlankArea2 - Maybe it should actually hit more than one target, kay-thanks.
- PointBlankSingle & PointBlankSingle2- ? I dunno
- Ranged Defense - Up it a couple notches
- Melee Defense - Up it. We're supposed to be able to take a bit of a beating from the Meleers. We're only 10pts better than a Rifleman!
I'm aware that the state of armor in the game makes us useless unless we have a godly Geo weapon, but that's an issue for somewhere else.
Flame on. 
Pagus
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:06 pm
#2
The only advice I can give you is to stick with it. It's not much but the one main thing that I like about this game is that it changes so much. Of course this is because a lot of stuff is broken but we won't get into that 
. The way the system is right now Pistoleer just is not effective by itself especially in PVP. The thing is though: It will change! Whether in the Combat Revamp or in some other publish or mini-publish Pistoleer will get fixed. When the game launched two of the most gimped professions were TKM and Rifleman. Now look at them. It may take awhile but nothing in this game stays the same forever.
. The way the system is right now Pistoleer just is not effective by itself especially in PVP. The thing is though: It will change! Whether in the Combat Revamp or in some other publish or mini-publish Pistoleer will get fixed. When the game launched two of the most gimped professions were TKM and Rifleman. Now look at them. It may take awhile but nothing in this game stays the same forever.
Pagus
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:10 pm
#3
(Nobody told me the Tab button submits posts!)
Anyhow if you don't want to change your template for PVP I recommend that you just try to save up credits and faction for JtL. Once I started doing that and not worrying about the problems in my profession I found that I enjoy the game a lot more.
Anyhow if you don't want to change your template for PVP I recommend that you just try to save up credits and faction for JtL. Once I started doing that and not worrying about the problems in my profession I found that I enjoy the game a lot more.Hope this helps.
wazzadoin
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:14 pm
#4
Well, umm somethings do stay the same forever. Smuggler... what?
Zandreff
Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:09 am
#5
I feel your pain here,I just mastered pistoleer tonight,and I'm not that impressed.I can't for the life of me figure out what multi-target-shot does.I got TK and fencer friends that just dance circles around me.And to put the nail in the coffin,I'm a Master Ranger.I somehow voluntarly mastered two mostly broken professions.I don't even know how I'm able to survive.
I haven't fully explored pistoleer enough to give any good suggestions about it...yet.But I know what you mean.
Gooney
Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:17 am
#6
Tenshi,
I too love pistols, nothing beats a good sidearm at your side. The title Gunslinger has a mythos all its own. Everything you say is true, your points are painfully valid.
I'm not going to sit here and tell you your wrong, because your not. I'm not going to sit here and tell you to be patient, that all will be fixed with the combat revamp, because that would be patronizing. I'm in the same boat as you. I began as a Pistoleer, mastered it then was completely owned one day by a novice BH with BH pistols 2. That day I dropped Pistoleer cold turkey. I went on to become a Master Bounty Hunter, by the time I had Bounty Pistols 2 I was unstoppable against ranged opponents, melee still gave me fits if I let them get close but I could hold my own. At Bounty Pistols 3 I could solo the Peko Peko Albatross and went on to collect 3 feathers from the mythical beast.
Then came the change to MBH, which effectivly gave me the ability to Master Pistoleer and MBH. Well one thing lead to another and I ended up dropping BH altogether and taking up Smuggler/Pistoleer. What I had done in practice was skilled myself right out of PVP viability. Sure I could still fight, and win (rarely), but with none of the ease that was possible with my faithful scatter pistol.
PvP in this game is unbalanced, if you cannot damage mind or have enough defences to avoid a large portion of attacks against you, you really are PvP unviable. This saddens me, and frustrates me.
I am a Master Pistoleer, I will not drop it. It is the basis of my character in SWG. I am frustrated with the state of my chosen profession and frustrated at the obvious down prioritizing of any combat fixes by SOE. Im at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. If its any consolation at all Smuggler as a whole profession is in far more need of attention than pistoleer (the whole concept of it is off). Its my unhappy lot, to have made the assumption that Smuggler/Pistoleer would be a fun and fulfilling prof combo...its not.
Im at a bit of a cross roads. I truly enjoy the game, or more honestly I enjoy the possiblity of playing in the SWG universe. With the indefinate delay of both the Smuggler and Combat revamps Im not sure what to do.
I could.
1. Simply quit playing. This urge is growing with each passing day of silence from SOE staffers.
2. Sit with Smuggler template a while and try to RP it in a non-RP environment. There is practically no smuggler content presently
3.Re-master BH. Not sure I have the patients to redo the Investigation tree.
4. Just start crafting again and forget both PVP and combat in general.
Dont know what Im trying to say with this post other than I agree with your sentiments completely. Im frustrated plain and simple.
-Gooney
Fade2nothing
Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:23 am
#7
As it stands now with major combat change their is only jedi as combat profession. Yhe rest are just for grinding though no idea why at theis point. Why only jedi you say ? Ok say use all skill points master pistoleer and what you say now what? Well kill the rarer mobs for loot really can be fun But wait the jedi are already camping these in growing numbers. Since there is no resist to LS and jedi get higher with 4 gen light saber they can do zero resist 4500 hits every sec. This means even with rifle men in your group on high resist mobs jedi can ks in most cases. Now u say well pvp ? LOL remember jedi are suppose to be able to kill 10 20 30 or more non jedi at master. So again pvp is a blow out. Well there is only crafting left dont bother with armour smith will need a few of them since jedi do not need and others not fighting very much same for weapon smith. So you can be a doc and a pet for jedi buffing tailors well they already a dead profession wait you can be dancer at this point jedi I do not believe can fix BF .
So either start the long grind to jedi about to get longer with pub 10 or craft. Hopefully with jump to light speed we can least be pilots with out having to compete with jedi but who knows at this point.
Nezodon
Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:34 am
#8
Ive just looked at thedev trackerforum and saw the npcs and beasties are changing to be able to use specials and change between weapons during combat.
With the state of our profesions this will screw us big time, in essence what is happening is that the mobs are getting harder and we are still a sad broken profession.
From now on dont expect to go out against night sisters (not that i could without taking novice commando for the launcher pistol) or any mob worth while doing.
This patch from what they are saying goes live today (at least they seem to get some patches out quickly, the ones which screw the broken professions).
/think wonder if I could solo a wort when these changes come in.
WesBelden
Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:56 am
#9
It's meant to be as equally viable as any elite combat profession, it's why they cost the same amount of SP/have the same requirements. Come the combat revamp (yes, it's ages away), pistoleer will be made as viable (or as near as possible) to every other elite profession and vice versa. There's talk of (from GreenMarine)the pistol specials in the smuggler DF tree being made universal specials that can be used with any ranged weapon and I think this will fit in with the combat revamp's ethos - everyone having a viable and useful role in combat, instead of the FotM combos you see at the moment.
Pistoleer will be worthwhile and if coupled at the moment with BH 0-0-4-0 or BH Master, you have a decent chance in PvP. It's whether you can be bothered to wait, or have the SP to spare on BH that's going to tell you if you want to stick with pistoleer for now. As for the specials changes, the devs have stated that each and every special will be gone over in the combatrevamp, for every profession.
Aenedor
Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:03 am
#10
Zandreff said "I feel your pain here,I just mastered pistoleer tonight,and I'm not that impressed.I can't for the life of me figure out what multi-target-shot does.I got TK and fencer friends that just dance circles around me.And to put the nail in the coffin,I'm a Master Ranger.I somehow voluntarly mastered two mostly broken professions.I don't even know how I'm able to survive.
I haven't fully explored pistoleer enough to give any good suggestions about it...yet.But I know what you mean."
Zandreff, a pet really helps, in fact it makes all the difference in PvE, but forget PVP.
Pet + Fanshot = CARNAGE 
Appro
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:47 am
#11
You must be mad.
I'm Master Pistoleer/BH0-0-4-0/Fencer 3-0-4-0. I've recently beaten TKM's, Master Rifles, Master Swords, etc etc. If you get the right template, eat the right food/drink, practice and learn the weaknesses of other profs, then Pistoleer can be a fantastic combat profession. Yes, you have to combine it with other skills, but so does everyone else. It just requires a bit of effort.
Zandreff
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:44 am
#13
Aenedor wrote:
Zandreff said "I feel your pain here,I just mastered pistoleer tonight,and I'm not that impressed.I can't for the life of me figure out what multi-target-shot does.I got TK and fencer friends that just dance circles around me.And to put the nail in the coffin,I'm a Master Ranger.I somehow voluntarly mastered two mostly broken professions.I don't even know how I'm able to survive.
I haven't fully explored pistoleer enough to give any good suggestions about it...yet.But I know what you mean."
Zandreff, a pet really helps, in fact it makes all the difference in PvE, but forget PVP.
Pet + Fanshot = CARNAGE
Yeah,I 'm a 0/0/1/1 CH and I'm just starting to figure out the fanshot/pet tank thing,it's just no good against higher level mobs.I'm not sure if I have enough points left to go further in CH(I think the highest level I can tame is 16).Though against lower level mobs,I really do love the destruction I can cause.
And as far as PvP,I knew a long time ago I would never get anywhere with that.I tried it once,died like 10 times in 10 min trying to defend a base,so I've given up on that totally.
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