Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Opinions on this seemingly really good PvP template? *NEW*
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Andriko
Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:04 pm
#1
3-0-4-0 Bounty Hunter
Pistol Speed +50
Pistol Acc +50
Eye Shot
Bleeding Shot
Torso Shot
Jedi Hunting
2-4-4-0 Pistoleer (Also including Master Marksman)
Pistol Speed +35 Ranged Mitigation 2
Pistol Acc +95 Dodge +40
Melee Def +2 Geo Blaster Cert
Ranged Def +17 Fan Shot
Def vs Dizzy +40 Def vs KD +50
1-4-4-0 Fencer
Melee Def +27 Intimidate
Ranged Def +27 Warcry
Def vs Dizzy +40 Body Hit 3
Dodge +90 One-handed Accuracy +70
Melee Mitigation 2 Center of Being
Def vs KD +50 One-handed Speed +80
Total
Dodge +130
Melee Def +29
Ranged Def +44
Pistol Speed +85
Pistol Acc +145
Def vs KD +100
Def vs Dizzy +80
Ranged Mitigation 2
Melee Mitigation 2
Capped dodge replacing high melee /ranged defense
Message Edited by Andriko on 07-11-2004 12:07 PM
Andriko
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:11 pm
#2
I need advice since I don't have much PvP experience so I don't know how stacked a ranged prof has to be to be effective in PvP, against stackers. I refuse to succumb to being a melee defense stacker, I like pistols too much.
Ternque01
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:21 pm
#3
I'm doing this: BH 3040 (you don't need investigation 4 to hunt jedi), MP, Fencer 0400.
This template has capped dodge andvery nice state defenses (which include def vs. KD of +100 and def vs. posturechange +70).
I don't really think you need high ranged and melee defense because your dodge does that job automatically. A big thing in a fight is to avoid getting KD'd or posture changed while dizzy. While this template lacks melee mitigation 2, if you stay out of melee range you should do very damn well. Against Jedi you kinda want to stay away from their attack range as they can do 4-5k of damage per second 
dorsai78664
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:36 pm
#4
I believe PvPing without mitigation III will not be as much fun as you might like. I also think that you should try to hit the cap on at least one of the active or passive defenses (melee defense, ranged defense, dodge, counter, block). To be honest, it was the only thing that really bothered me about your planned template. For PvE, mitigation is not a problem of course but it sounds like you intend to PvP with this build.
Currently, it is possible to face a template with +125 ranged defense, +125 melee defense, and +125 dodge. That is going to be extremely hard to land a hit. You will either have to do as you originally planned and go heavy on offense or shore up the defenses so you can last a bit longer.
It looks like you would prefer to use a pistol. If you are willing to sacrifice a little offense, you can pick up a few more defenses. This will howerver give up the good BH pistol specials in favor of pistoleer defenses. It is more difficult to find ranged defense SEAs so I would favor getting that as high as tolerable.
This is:
BH 4000
Master Pistoleer
Fencer 4030
This also uses 250 skillpoints. I highlighted the major changes.
Defense vs Blind +50
Defense vs Dizzy +50
Defense vs Intimidate +10
Defense vs Knockdown +50
Defense vs Posture Change +20
Defense vs Stun +40
Dodge +165
Melee Defense +116
Melee Mitigation 2
Pistol Accuracy +105
Pistol Accuracy While Moving +30
Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
Pistol Aiming +16
Pistol Speed +79 <-- definitely will need some SEAs for this.
Ranged Defense +91 <-- only +6 more but still helps.
Ranged Mitigation 3
Defense vs Dizzy +50
Defense vs Intimidate +10
Defense vs Knockdown +50
Defense vs Posture Change +20
Defense vs Stun +40
Dodge +165
Melee Defense +116
Melee Mitigation 2
Pistol Accuracy +105
Pistol Accuracy While Moving +30
Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
Pistol Aiming +16
Pistol Speed +79 <-- definitely will need some SEAs for this.
Ranged Defense +91 <-- only +6 more but still helps.
Ranged Mitigation 3
Ternque01
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:03 pm
#5
Well dorsai, you really wont need melee or ranged defense if you have dodge capped. Furthermore your template has very weak defense vs. states.
If you are easily KD'd and dizzied you will have bigger problems than lacking melee mitigation 2.
I really think at this time that if you have capped dodge that you really have no use for ranged or melee defense. My idea is to cap dodge and get high state defenses. After all.. when you're on the ground your enemy with do 1.5 times the damage to you and melee mitigation 2 won't save you. Not ending up on the ground in the first place is a good idea.
You can have GREAT defense and awesome pistol firepower with BH 3040, MP, Fencer 0400. The only thing I wish I had skill points for is melee mitigation 1 at least.
Message Edited by Ternque01 on 07-10-2004 07:03 PM
dorsai78664
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:22 pm
#6
When I originally posted, I hadn't seen your post.Your suggestion isa good template also but I would have to disagree a bit on mitigation as well as the value of ranged and melee defense. Ranged and melee defense are the only defenses that counter accuracy. Dodge, counter, and block are more like saving throws if the hit lands.
There is a roll of their accuracy vs. your defense. If the hit lands, there is another roll to determine if your active defense kicks in. Then the roll for defense against states and posture changes. Forgetting about offense for a moment, the best defensive templates have all 3 of these maxed out. This is my understanding of the mechanics involved.
You bring up good points on the state defenses and defenses against posture changes but all of those still assume you are going to get hit. Personally, I prefer to avoid the hit if possible but it is just a preference.
Message Edited by dorsai78664 on 07-10-2004 07:34 PM
Eined
Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:31 pm
#7
I hate to say it, but if you are PvPing, expect to be hit with lots of poison. You can have all the defense in the world, but it wont protect you from the poison unless you have some doc skills
Ternque01
Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:32 pm
#8
Hmm dorsai, good points. At the same time I've heard that accuracy doesn't cut through dodge, but I've also heard that it does. I think I need to do a little more research on it first.
KawaiiTsuki
Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:22 pm
#9
so you like pistols eh? try this
Master Pistol
Master Marksman - For BH/Commando
BH 0040 - Lets face it, Jedi are pretty much invulnerable to a ranged prof with saber block
Smuggler 0040 - More Specials
Novice Commando - For the LP
Scout 4000 - For BH
Brawler 4000 - For Commando/Smuggler
This template is a little lacking on the defences side, but you have access to 6 different types of damage and every pistol special in the game.
This is what I'm considering doing for my alt account anyway.
Chibacca
MFencer/TKM/MSwordsman
Kettemoor's Wookiee Samurai
dorsai78664
Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:39 pm
#10
Ternque01 wrote:
Hmm dorsai, good points. At the same time I've heard that accuracy doesn't cut through dodge, but I've also heard that it does. I think I need to do a little more research on it first.
Actually, you are right in a way. A person's accuracy will not affect the target's chances to dodge. So if you have a person that can hit anyone 100% of the time regardless of defenses and they shoot a person with an insane dodge mod, theoretically, the person can dodge every shot.
So yeah, you are right in that accuracy can't cut through dodge. That is a true statement. It is just that a dodge is really a "hit" with no damage or states taken.
I was thinking about this while cutting the grass. 
If you can get dodge high enough -- say +125 plus +25 in AAs plus food for another +20 or so, you would technically be hittable but probably won't actually take any damage. I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking a bit...
Andriko
Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:42 pm
#12
Check this one out:
4-0-4-0 BH (there were 3 extra skill points left over so why not have more efficient droids?)
3-4-4-0 Pistoleer (still +85 speed which should cap all specials)
0-4-4-0 Fencer (Brings it to +80 Dev vs Dizzy, +100 Def vs KD, CoB effectiveness, more speed for more versatilty in combat)
00over0
Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:20 pm
#13
Eined wrote:
I hate to say it, but if you are PvPing, expect to be hit with lots of poison. You can have all the defense in the world, but it wont protect you from the poison unless you have some doc skills
Such is true and bears repeating for those yet to take the dive. You will be poisoned from far away (even 64 m is still far when it does so much damage, so quickly). You'll find yourself down to 1 mind in a matter of seconds (all while a battle is raging around you), at which point just about anyone with anything can run up and incap/db you. Keep in mind that while this is happening, you're having to deal with other, more mundane attackers.
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