Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Tired of Skill Point Arguments
Yes you can say Master BH takes 217 points to master, but it does not entitle you to be the best pistol users. If you want to count skill points in order to master pistoleer you require 23 skill boxes that benefit pistol in some way. In comparison a Master BH requires 12 skill boxes that benefit pistol in some way. You can count the skill points as well and a Master pistoleer requires many more PISTOL orientated skill points than a Master BH. However if a Master BH were to go Pistol Vs. Pistol they would cream the pistoleer... only and idiot could claim this is fair. Several of you fail to realize that a BH's strength is in his versatility and other assorted skills. As a Master BH your still points are not devoted only to the weapons of pistol, carbine, llc and rifle, but also to making camps, trapping, exploration, hunting and ranged support. If a Pistoleer were to master Marksman and master Scout having the exact same skill point costs, he would still not be a match for a BH.
I'm not posting for a nerf or to start a flame war. I am just tired of this argument being used to claim that a BH should be the best at everything. My only real interest is in getting the Pistoleer profession fixed. Leave us alone and stick to your own profession, and we will do the same.
Obviously you haven't grasped the design scheme yet. It doesn't matter where you put the skillpoints to get to master, all that counts is how many.
Thus professions thatrequire more skillpoints to master are and should inherently be stronger than those that need less to reach mastery.
So a BH and Commando should always pack more punch in their given weapon than other combat professions.
Rather easy to understand.
But I have long had a problem with the "We spent all these points to get to Bounty Hunter!" argument. To demonstrate why, let's do a brief comparison.
According to the Skill Tree tool on SWGCenter.com, a Novice Pistoleer who has not spent skill points on any other profession but Novice Marksman, four boxes of Ranged Weapon Support, and four boxes of Pistol has the following skills (areas where the Novice Pistoleer has an advantage over a Novice Bounty Hunter, or where the Novice Pistoleer possesses a skill or a weapon cert not possessed by a Bounty Hunter, are marked in red):
Pistol Accuracy: +55
Pistol Speed: +30
Ranged Defense: +8
Ranged Aiming: +22
Melee Defense: +2
Overcharge Shot 1
Point Blank Single 1
Point Blank Area 1
Threaten Shot
Tumble skills
Warning Shot
Suppression Fire 1
Body Shot 1
Body Shot 2
Dive Shot
Kip Up Shot
Roll Shot
Health Shot 1
Health Shot 2
D18 Pistol Cert
DH17 Carbine Cert
DLT20a Rifle Cert
DL44 Pistol Cert
DL44 Metal Pistol Cert
DH17 Pistol Cert
Scout Blaster Cert
Power5 Pistol Cert
Striker Pistol Cert
FWG5 Pistol Cert
SR Combat Pistol Cert
Tangle Pistol Cert
DX2 Cert
According to the same skill tree tool, a Novice Bounty Hunter who has spent the bare minimum amount of skill points to achieve Novice Bounty Hunter (i.e. Master Marksman, Master Scout) has the following skills (advantages over the Novice Pistoleer are listed in red):
Pistol Accuracy: +60
Pistol Speed: +30
Ranged Defense: +17
Carbine Accuracy: +60
Carbine Speed: +30
Rifle Accuracy: +60
Rifle Speed: +30
Ranged Aiming: +22
Melee Defense: +2
Creature Harvesting: +50
Creature Knowledge: +50
Creature To-hit Bonus: +10
Trapping: +50
Camping: +50
Foraging: +50
Terrain Negotiation: +50
Burst Run Efficiency: +50
Mask Scent: +50
Overcharge Shot 1
Overcharge Shot 2
Point Blank Single 1
Point Blank Area 1
Threaten Shot
Tumble skills
Warning Shot
Suppression Fire 1
Body Shot 1
Body Shot 2
Dive Shot
Kip Up Shot
Roll Shot
Health Shot 1
Leg Shot 1
Leg Shot 2
Full Auto Single 1
Action Shot 1
Head Shot 1
Head Shot 2
Mind Shot 1
Take Cover
D18 Pistol Cert
DL44 Pistol Cert
DL44 Metal Pistol Cert
DH17 Pistol Cert
Scout Blaster Cert
Power5 Pistol Cert
Striker Pistol Cert
FWG5 Pistol Cert
SR Combat Pistol Cert
Tangle Pistol Cert
DH17 Carbine Cert
DH17 Short Carbine Cert
DH17 Snubnose Carbine Cert
E11 Carbine Cert
Laser Carbine Cert
DXR6 Carbine Cert
EE3 Carbine Cert
DLT20 Rifle Cert
DLT20a Rifle Cert
Tusken Rifle Cert
Laser Rifle Cert
SG-82 Rifle Cert
Spraystick Cert
E11 Rifle Cert
Jawa Ion Rifle Cert
Scatter Pistol Cert
Lightning Rifle Cert
Basic Camp Kit
Multiperson Camp Kit
Improved Camp Kit
Lecepanine Dart
Wire Mesh Trap
Sharp Bone Spur
Glow-Juice Trap
Noise Maker
Stink Bomb
Phecnacine Dart
Glow-Wire Trap
Adhesive Mesh
These are all the advantages a Novice Bounty Hunter has over a Novice Pistoleer.
The advantages to spending all of those points to qualify for Novice Bounty Hunter are built in to the system.
So the "We spend more skill points to qualify for Bounty Hunter, so we should be l33t badasses in combat" really boils down to:
"Because we ALREADY have a ton of advantages over other classes, we deserve MORE advantages."
Which is a pretty bogus argument.
Oh, SNAP! Nice post, Volsted.
Bounty Hunters aren't deadly because they can use a pistol better than anyone else. They are deadly because of the variety of ways they can kill you, and their knowledge of the seedy underbelly of the galaxy.
Rebelpunk76why are you even trying to compete? You obvioously have no idea how the skill point system in this game works. You also have no concept of the perks and falls of other professions other than BH and Pistoleer. Stop posting untill you have a legitamate argument on what profession combinations lose to BH more than 50% of the time. I will help you in stating a few that will beat a BH 50% or more of the time.
Master pistolleer/carbineer/medic = cripplingshot/chargeshot + stoppingshpt
Master pistoleer/smuggler/TKA = panicshot + lowblow + stoppingshot/lastditch/unarmedhit3
Master Pistoleer/smuggler/commando = same as above -unarmedhit3
Master pistoleer/BH 0-0-4-0 = Stoppingshots so quick it doesnt matter
Yes it maytake some skill and the ability to change weapons on occasion. WIll you own BHs80% of the time against a MBH using only a pistol? Guaranteed for anyone with skill.
ochad wrote:
Rebelpunk76why are you even trying to compete? You obvioously have no idea how the skill point system in this game works. You also have no concept of the perks and falls of other professions other than BH and Pistoleer. Stop posting untill you have a legitamate argument on what profession combinations lose to BH more than 50% of the time. I will help you in stating a few that will beat a BH 50% or more of the time.
Master pistolleer/carbineer/medic = cripplingshot/chargeshot + stoppingshpt
Master pistoleer/smuggler/TKA = panicshot + lowblow + stoppingshot/lastditch/unarmedhit3
Master Pistoleer/smuggler/commando = same as above -unarmedhit3
Master pistoleer/BH 0-0-4-0 = Stoppingshots so quick it doesnt matter
Yes it maytake some skill and the ability to change weapons on occasion. WIll you own BHs80% of the time against a MBH using only a pistol? Guaranteed for anyone with skill.
I am a MCH/Master Pistoleer/novice medic and I can compete fairly well but only using a krayt FWG5 and bodyshot 3 or Fanshot which is being nerfed do I ever stand a chance without my creatures. Your same argument can be made for BH they should win by doing Underhand Shot+Carbine 4 Dizzying move (forgot name) followed by lightning single 2, a very powerful combo. Getting to pistol 4 and spamming torso shot on me until im low on mind and finishing me with eyeshot is not what a BH should be, and being 0/0/4/0 in BH should not entitle them to being the best with the pistol thats the argumentI am trying to make. BH trolls are coming in here basically saying we need to stop trying to get our profession fixed because 217>[whatever they feel like putting]and frankly I am tired of it. I am just trying to disprove the argument that a master BH should be master of all weapons, granted he should be good but pistol vs pistol he should not win pistoleer vs the rest of his profession yes the BH should win if he knows how to play. I should not be forced to dabble in multiple combat professions in order to "compete".
just for you ignorant trolls i would be low on mind because i am repeatedly healing myself from the health damage.
Rebelpunk76 wrote:
I am a MCH/Master Pistoleer/novice medic and I can compete fairly well but only using a krayt FWG5 and bodyshot 3 or Fanshot which is being nerfed do I ever stand a chance without my creatures. Your same argument can be made for BH they should win by doing Underhand Shot+Carbine 4 Dizzying move (forgot name) followed by lightning single 2, a very powerful combo. Getting to pistol 4 and spamming torso shot on me until im low on mind and finishing me with eyeshot is not what a BH should be.
A person with Master Scout and Master Marksman and Master of any Elite ranged weapon should win a Master Bounty Hunter because they specialized in one weapon and bounty hunters worked on being versatile.
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Volsted...Your using names and numbers, but not actually showing what BH's *can do* with said things.
Rifles.....
We will *never* use, simply because with the amount of skill points spent, there is not enough left to buy the enough rifle speed bonuses to make them fast enough...
Not to mention with the negative mod on most rifle specials, and the mind cost, unless you specilize in rifles, they are all but useless....(Riflemen really are not good until master)
14 Wasted points
Exploration....
Good skill....Excellent expenditure of skill points.
Trapping.....
Another nearly wasted skill. At master scout, thetrapping skill is simply to low to use on most high end mobs. Not to mention the type of mobs a BH fights are NPC's, which are Immune to traps.
Also traps do not work on PvP creatures. So without that, or a high enough trap skill to have them work in most PvE a BH would encounter OR have them work on a marks (what we are actually supposed to be killing) I have to say this skill is useless.
Perhaps, if they had some humanoid traps, it would not be so, but as is now, it is.
14 Wasted skill points
Hunting....
The creature to-hit bonus is acounted into auto attack. However, rarely, if ever, is the BH given the opputunity to let auto attack do the work, that and the addition of +10 is meager in a whole.
As for the rest of this line? You can not skin NPC's (again what BH's suposedly hunt for a living). Its useless in PvP.
14 wasted Skill points
Survival...
The highest level scout "camp" only adds a .10 on to healing bonus over the lowest level one. To this day, no test I have done tells exactly what that bonus does. Gaining level 4 in this skill is done simply to master it for Ranger or BH. By far this may be one of the most useless trees in the game, riviling perhaps the DE customazation tree.
14 Wasted skill points.
Ranged defense...
Good skill....Points well spent. Again this tree actually helps kill NPC's/People...a BH's "job". Can not complain....
Pistol....
Points well spent...Pays off by continuing into the BH tree, as well as by helping the BH kill NPC's/People (again what thier primary job is suposed to be)
Carbine.....
Same as pistol....
The main problem is alot of the BH trees do not continue into master....and are useless skill point sinks. The BH's gain no *real* advantage to having them, and they do *nothing* for thier BH's "purpose".
Most, if not all the things you listed are rarely, if ever used by a bounty hunter. Simply because they have no bearing on the BH profession, or what the BH profession was intended to do. Its a grand list, but as anyone who has used *any* of the items or skills in red on your list knows, they are worthless.
This is one of the powers of a pistoleer....Pistoleers only *have* to buy skills that are usefull to thier template they wish to make. The BH is *forced* to buy skills he will almost never use.
The devs do not want to increase the BH's power directly? That is fine, there are things they can do to make the skill point "sink" not so bad...Such as make these skills usefull on into the BH's every day life....And not simply let the entire scout tree, save for exploration, die after one hits novice BH.
**edit** no edit button....
On the rifles, I was trying to say 
....Rifles have negative mods on most specials they use, as opposed to the positive mods on pistol specials...This makes them *very* useless at lower levels. Anyone who had gotten to rifle 4 knows how much they suck.
It is only at around the upper tiers of riflemen that rifles really shine. The BH does *not* have enough skill points to make thier rifles worthwhile.
Also, no everything listed in red is useless...hehe, I ment to say *most* of those things are....Some of the traps do 60 action damage and that is all, yet they have a bigger delay then healing when your throwing them..........
but that would make it compleatly overpowered. Sure would be nie to be able to use that jawa ion i have effectivly