Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Let's talk Damage Mitigation
Damage Mitigation is IN. A week or so ago, Thunderheart said that it was being scrapped, but as it turns out he made a mistake and it's in for good. The new HAM system has still been delayed, but we'll be getting Ranged Damage Mitigation 1, 2, and 3 in the next patch.
So it's time to start talking about Damage Mitigation and how it will change combat for us. Overall it both helps AND hurts us ... and it hurts you a LOT more if you don't adapt to the change. So read this post carefully, learn how Damage Mitigation works, and use Mitigation to your advantage.
WHO GETS IT
We get now get Ranged Damage Mitigation 1 at Techniques 1, Ranged Damage Mitigation 2 at Techniques 3, and Ranged Damage Mitigation 3 at Master Pistoleer. EVERY combat profession has these bonuses. All melee professions get melee mitigation abilities, ranged professions get ranged mitigation abilities, and Bounty Hunters get ranged mitigation abilities. Smugglers don't get any mitigation.
HOW IT WORKS
Damage mitigation doesn't reduce the TOTAL damage done to you -- it reduces the RANGE of damage that can be done to you. Here's the breakdown:
- Level 1 damage mitigation limits damage to 80% of the range (20% reduction)
- Level 2 damage mitigation limits damage to 60% of the range (40% reduction)
- Level 3 damage mitigation limits damage to 40% of the range (60% reduction)
Damage mitigation works in both PvE *and* PvP, and it's a passive ability -- you don't have to activate it.
How does it work, specifically? Let's take two hypothetical examples, to make it clear:
- SR Combat: 80-140 damage range
- Uber Krayt FWG5: 45-425 damage range
The SR's range is 60 (140 minus 80 = 60), and Ranged Damage Mitigation 3 reduces this by 60%, to 24. The minimum damage is NOT effected, just the range, so the range is now 80-104.
The Krayt's range is 380 (425 minus 45 = 380), and Ranged Damage Mitigation 3 reduces this by 60%, to 142. The minimum damage is NOT effected, just the range, so the range is now 45-197.
What you should notice, from these examples, is that weapons with a large spread in between their minimum and maximum damage are the hardest hit. Weapons with a very high minimum damage aren't "mitigated" as much as weapons with a big spread between minimum and maximum damage. In this example, for instance, the Krayt is hit a lot harder than the SR. Before the Damage Mitigation, the average damage of the Krayt was 235, which is around 214 percent higher than the SR. After the Damage Mitigation the average damage of the Krayt is 121 and the average damage of the SR is 92. The Krayt is now only 31 percent stronger than the SR, because the Damage Mitigation reduces its damage far more than it reduces the SR's damage.
PRACTICAL CONSEQUENCES FOR PISTOLEERS
Who does Damage Mitigation help?
- 1) Masters (non-Masters won't have Mitigation 3, so dabbling is somewhat less attractive)
- 2) High minimum damage weapons (Scatter Pistol, T21 Rifle, DXR6 Carbine, etc.)
- 3) Everyone, in PvE (in our case, since we get Ranged -- not Melee -- Mitigation, it primarily helps in Faction PvE)
- 4) People using low-end weapons, since it has a much greater effect on high-end uber loot weapons
Who does Damage Mitigation hurt?
- 1) High-end uber loot weapons (because Krayt tissues only raise MAXIMUM, not minimum damage, uber loot weapons generally have a larger spread than non-loot weapons and thus get reduced more by mitigation.
- 2) Non-Masters (don't get Mitigation 3)
- 3) Weapons with a large spread between minimum and maximum damage (Republic Blaster, FWG5 Pistol, Laser Carbine, Laser Rifle)
Here's the question on all of your minds ... does this help or hurt PISTOLEERS? Good question. Let's look at some numbers ... I got the weapon statistics from this thread, to make them as unbiased as possible:
Scout Blaster: 74-145 Damage (109.5 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 74-102 (88 average), a 19.6 PERCENT DECREASE
Pre-Nerf FWG5 Pistol: 50-193 Damage (121.5 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 50-107 (78.5 average), a 35.4 PERCENT DECREASE
DX2 Pistol: 82-129 Damage (105.5 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 82-101 (91.5 average), a 13.3 PERCENT DECREASE
Pre-Nerf Scatter Pistol: 114-182 Damage (148 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 114-141 (127.5 average), a 13.9 PERCENT DECREASE
Laser Carbine; 38-264 Damage (151 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 38-128 (83 average), a 45.0 PERCENT DECREASE
DXR6 Carbine; 97-149 Damage (123 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 97-118 (107.5 average), a 12.6 PERCENT DECREASE
Laser Rifle: 29-376 Damage (202.5 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 29-168 (98.5 average), a 51.4 PERCENT DECREASE
T21 Rifle: 118-333 Damage (225.5 average)
AFTER MITIGATION 3 = 118-204 (161 average), a 28.6 PERCENT DECREASE
What's my conclusion? Mitigation is really a mixed bag for us. A lot of Pistoleers are relying on pre-nerf Krayt FWG5s, and those are going to be by far the hardest hit weapons of all. All the Krayt weapons will be the hardest hit, because they have a larger gap between minimum and maximum damage. On the other hand, the Laser Carbine and Laser Rifle will also get big reductions -- if T21s are scarce on your server (they're not on mine at all -- most Riflemen use the T21) that helps you.
The Brawler Correspondent and I have asked the Devs about how Mitigation will affect some weapons more than others, and asked them to implement something to even its effect across the board, but I think they're going to wait until the big upcoming combat revamp that Thunderheart talked about in this thread. In the meantime, we need to play smart when we're facing other ranged Masters in PvP. This may mean using the DX2, Scout Blaster, or SR2 Combat instead of the FWG5, for instance. Smart players who know how mitigation works will gain the most from this change, because they'll know how to adapt to it.
I hope this is helpful to everyone. I'll try to answer any questions anyone has, and pass along our concerns to the Devs.
Message Edited by Philosopher1976 on 12-08-2003 07:53 PM
Elzaa wrote:
I have a question
how does migrate help AT ALL in PVE?
I was a master CH for a long time and i ALL the mobs i saw had VERY little difference bettween max and minimum damage, max damage was in 90% cases level of pet * 10 and minimum damage was 20-30 points lower than base. For example a lvl 35 pet would be 330-350 dmg.
Good question ... the Devs created Damage Mitigation to help us tank against high-end PvE. Maybe they've increased the spread between PvE min and max damage in the latest patch, as part of their system-wide creature rebalance? I'll ask this question on Correspondent Forum and see if someone has a definite answer.
This post is written with PvP in mind.
I personally think it'sa variationofa stealth nerf to smugglers (borderline), BH and Commandos for PvP. Almost all PvP damage is ranged, and those proffesions are the only three ranged proffesions that didn't get ranged mitigation. In essence they have just been nerfed, they do less damage than they used to, while their (typical)opponents do the same to them...seems like a clear cut nerf.
The melee classes are getting this same effect in PvP, which shows to me that the devs are pushing them into aPvE tank role, and away from PvP.
Who is the big winner here? Seems to me like it's the rifleman, carbineer's, and pistoleers. Although all of our guns just got nerfed to heck against players, it's only against players that have ranged damage mitigation. In time the dabbling commandos, BH's and smugglers may pick up ranged damage mitigation,but most likely it won't be 60%, and if they do, they'll have to sacrfice a good deal of skills toaquire it.
i think he said that BH's get ranged mitigation.
i wonder which branch it will go in tho...
*hopes investigation*
2) Damage mitigation at TC:
Bounty hunters get melee mitigation in the investigation tree and at master. This was a SURPRISE for me as earlier I was told that we'd get ranged mitigation. After all, our marks in PvE are ranged, and most of our opponents in PvP are ranged. I have posted a rather strong inquiry with the devs and awaiting a response. Do not forget that things can change between the time a change is on TC anda live publish."
yeah they get melee...only feasable purpose I can see is jedi missions, but those are pretty much bugged from what I've heard. Jedi see's tef, logs off, logs back on, and tef is gone. Either that or...jedi sees tef, has friend incap him, tef gone, has friend heal him. So, the BH can keep the jedi from playing, but can't kill them.
Although I'm not a big BH fan, I do have to feel for them in the case of damage mitigation.
Elzaa wrote:
I have a question
how does migrate help AT ALL in PVE?
I was a master CH for a long time and i ALL the mobs i saw had VERY little difference bettween max and minimum damage, max damage was in 90% cases level of pet * 10 and minimum damage was 20-30 points lower than base. For example a lvl 35 pet would be 330-350 dmg.
I believe you to be correct in that mitigation is going to be irrelevant in PvE against monsters. But it should still make a difference against humanoid NPCs, whose attacks do have a damage range. So when, for example, the Tuskens whip out their Strafe 2 with their armor piercing rifles, we might have a somewhat better chance of surviving it.
Another thing, the Republic Blaster has a high damage spread similar to that of the FWG5, so that weapon becomes less useful in PvP with this mitigation change. Whether the DX2 and SR Combat with their lower spread but horrible accuracy actually become more viable choices in that type of play probably remains to be seen.
Also -- do NPCs get this mitigation? Otherwise, those of us who stick to PvE need only keep using the same weapons that we have been using.
By the way, on a tangential point, does anybody know how NPCs are constructed, exactly? For example, do they actually have skillboxes and their related abilities allotted like we do, or is it all much more abstracted? (I'm guessing it's all abstracted, but that raises other interesting questions, like how an NPCs access to particular special attacks is determined, or what their Dodge ability is, etc., etc.)